Regarding BL games...

[DaFool]

No, this is exactly why this forum is so awesome. (Ability to write walls of text being a prerequisite for membership).

[\Nish/]

If girls like yaoi, there's something wrong with them.

Oh wow really? From where I come from, the friends and females that I know, pretty much all loves yaoi/BL. It's seen as a common thing and it's the girls that are not interested in yaoi/BL that they consider to have problems, lol.

Anyway, I didn't read the walls of text, I just caught this one line and wanted to throw my two cents.

[Evangeline]

If girls like yaoi, there's something wrong with them.

@Nish: To clarify I believe the exact opposite (I think it's perfectly natural for girls to like BL); but it is my impression yaoi fangirls are perceived this way in male-dominated communities.

In many online communities I have been in where the majority of members are female, than the attitude you described is indeed more prevalent. (In my experience, though, there is usually not any strong prejudice against girls who don't like yaoi.) But otherwise, especially in mainstream media, the opposite seems to be true. In any case, GL seems to me to be more accepted than BL in male-dominated circles. And I'm not the only one who has that impression:

I feel like GxG is being shoved down my throat with gratuitous female makeout scenes in TV shows and movies. And any BxB romance scenes I've seen (outside of award winning, break-through, omg-I-can't-believe-they-just-did-that stuff) has been treated as comedy. With this kind of bias in the media, I would think it only natural for GxG to be more widely accepted than BL.

@Aleema: But why is there this differential treatment of male homosexuality and female homosexuality in mainstream media? My theory is: female homosexuality is more accepted than male homosexuality, and that is the reason why the media treats BL as a joke (because straight guys have a tendency to find it funny) and GL as fetish fuel (because straight guys have a tendency to find lesbian make out scenes hot). Of course, this is merely my interpretation and I don't claim that this must be absolutely true.

@Lin: I definitely think that many girls would like BL even if the patriarchal system didn't exist, given that many boys seem to like GL even though there isn't a matriarchal system is in place. I'm just saying that a patriarchal system seems to be one factor that influences a girl's enjoyment of yaoi (such as a stronger preference for seme-uke in Japan, which is arguably more patriarchal than, say, the Western world, where slash is more common), but I definitely agree that other factors such as the simple reason that two men/women are better than just one. I think that a preference for BL or GL is a complex phenomenon that isn't due to one simple factor or system, though some reasons can be more important/reaching than others, and that different girls will enjoy BL due to different factors in the same way that different boys will enjoy GL for different reasons.

Also, I apologize for being too harsh in my first response to you (I admit that I might be oversensitive to this subject because I have come across various abusive writings in various online places that are virulently anti-yaoi fangirl, that specifically and explicitly state that there is something very wrong in the heads of girls who like yaoi - one blog post even came to the point of calling it a psychological disorder - that they are weird and wrong and "rabid" and crazy etc. - and those experiences might have predisposed me to respond in a stronger tone than your post warranted); again I want to say that I agree with most of what you said, just perhaps not the way you said it. I definitely did not think you were an idiot of any kind.

@Aka-kami: In short: Yes, please make your BL game because there are people who will play it.

[Aleema]

@Aleema: But why is there this differential treatment of male homosexuality and female homosexuality in mainstream media? My theory is: female homosexuality is more accepted than male homosexuality, and that is the reason why the media treats BL as a joke (because straight guys have a tendency to find it funny) and GL as fetish fuel (because straight guys have a tendency to find lesbian make out scenes hot). Of course, this is merely my interpretation and I don't claim that this must be absolutely true.

Because women don't have orgasms. Duh.

In college, I majored in video/theatre, and in the video classes I was usually the only girl. The actual reason I believe there are more GxG in the media is because most all of the directors, writers, and producers are men. While female writers are growing, it's the producers that decide most everything. Some of the adults (not kids!) in my class actually wrote scripts about how awful it was for a gay man, who turned straight at the end of the story. It's really baffling.

[Evangeline]

most all of the directors, writers, and producers are men

I would agree with you. Again it all goes back to the fact that society is still dominated by men. It seems to me that some people like to think that gender equality is already here and we don't need to do anything more about discrimination against females - well, those people are wrong.

[Nayru]

I just read some of the text walls, I was unable to read them all. However I'm here to state my point of view on the matter.

I LOVE BL games. In fact they are my favourite kind of visual novels so be sure that I would play them. I say go for it, at least I would love you for that. Personally I prefer yaoi over shonen ai and fluff. Also I prefer manly types for both the seme and the uke.

However the more choices you give the better. On the one hand I think it would be nice for a game to include all sorts of choices like BXB, GxG, BxG...etc etc.
On the other hand take into account that it could make the game more difficult and that let's be honest, sometimes you're looking for a certain content and mixing too many things doesn't give the expected result but too much of a clutter.

That said, I agree with some things said before, like the demographics in this forum and the fact that more people apart of those in the forum would like to play these games so you should take them into your target if required.

I don't know if it has been said before but what I appreciate the most about a visual novel is a stunning plot together with the graphics and interactivity (I appreciate music too). so as long as the story is interesting and catchy enough I wouldn't mind it not being BL, but that's just me. Anyways if it was BL I would prefer it but that is my personal choice. Compared to other games I think BL stuff is more difficult to find here, so any rare ray of light that arrives to my expectant eyes will be appreciated.

I won't give my view about BL right now since that would take too long and I'm already tired, perhaps I'll state something later if I feel like it.

IN SHORT MY OPINION IS: Yay for BL games, this forum needs more of them!

[Riviera]

I've always had a soft spot for good BL or GL... and I'd rather watch/read the soft, fluffy stuff than hardcore porn. Although... spots of it, if it fits the story... *ahem*

I do feel that a lot of the yuri/yaoi and GL/BL fanbase DOES objectify said relationships and only is a fan to see HOT GUYS/GIRLS DOING EACH OTHER HURRRR *drooldrool*, but there are also a lot of people who simply enjoy seeing these relationships like some people simply enjoy seeing a straight couple's romance. It's a pity the more hormonally driven masses are usually the most vocal, but... well.. the loud ones you hear about a lot tend to be the ones who think the least.

I've only recently started looking into BL, to be honest. I've been a fan of GL a lot longer. In fact, if anyone can recommend some good BL VNs to me, I'd very much appreciate a PM on that.

[sayuri]

What's better than one cute guy/girl? TWO cute guys/girls. And that is why BL and GL are popular with men and women.

On topic, I think you should go for it. I personally don't like hardcore yaoi because I feel no connection to gay sex at all. I like BL that has lots of fluff, is emotional but still has that taboo aura. Aka, you have another guaranteed player!

[Wintermoon]

What's better than one cute guy/girl? TWO cute guys/girls. And that is why BL and GL are popular with men and women.

That's a rather simplistic view. By that line of reasoning, I should like GxGxB relationships as much as GxG relationships, and I should prefer GxGxG relationships to GxG relationship. However, I don't. And even when there is just a a single character, I prefer a lesbian character over a straight character.

My preference for yuri is more based on my dislike of the traditional gender roles that are inevitably forced on all heterosexual relationship in Japanese media.

[sayuri]

Yes, your right. I just felt a simplistic view might counteract the in-depth analysis a bit .

However, I also like the reverse harem anime.

[Jaye]

Slightly more ontopic - I quite like BL games!

Though when the 'boy' looks completely like a girl... I mean, have the boy cross-dress by all means. But no more BL characters who look just like a girl (and with no comment on it).

And may we see who we are playing as? As much as I like Gauken that was one thing made me like it less as a BL game. You could play as a male or female main character, so it stopped being just a BL game.

[Samu-kun]

Actually, the majority of BL and yaoi authors are women... It's a huge misinterpretation in the West that the Japanese anime/manga market is dominated by men. In almost every single Comiket, there were more women attendants than male ones.

[dott.Piergiorgio]

I'm not a big fan and probably wouldn't play a game that was all BxB. Nothing against it, it just doesn't interest me that much. I do enjoy certain specific BxB relationships, and would probably be more interested in the game if it were mostly BxG with one BxB route, rather than one of these settings where suddenly EVERYONE IS GAY for no obvious reason.

Actually there's circumstances in where all people around are gays... for instance a Gay Pride day's parade or meetings of the organizing/steering committee (Yay ! the perfect setting for a BXB VN with chapters and multiple dateable NPC ! I still wonder when good ideas sprung from my hyperactive brain....)

or the MC is the founder and owner of a gay bar.... and so on....

I'm not criticizing you, but I want only to point that with some thinking, one can find credible setting for a full-gay or near-full-gay set of characters....

and, (sorry, my creative side seems to have self-throttled into flank speed) let's not forget that an fantasy/alien race isn't obliged to have two or more sexes (actually, there are not few multicellular species whose are unisex/hermafrodite)

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.

[Aleema]

Just found this comic with random'ing SMBC. Thought it relevant. =P
You can replace "men" with "women" and "lesbians" with "BL", if that floats your boat.

[sayuri]

Just found this comic with random'ing SMBC. Thought it relevant. =P
You can replace "men" with "women" and "lesbians" with "BL", if that floats your boat.

That's what I'm saying . There's also that taboo element that makes BL more 'naughty' than a hetero relationship.