When to announce?

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kinougames
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Re: When to announce?

#16 Post by kinougames » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:14 am

Wintermoon wrote: Art is about producing a finished product, even in the case of performing arts (where the product is the performance). You want the final product to have the maximum impact, so you hide all the preparations leading up to it. Which is more impressive: a flawless performance out of nowhere or a long series of practice sessions showing incremental improvements? (And if you make your practice sessions public, will any of your audience even stick around for the actual performance?)
This seems to imply that the person in question is revealing all their eggs. There's a huge difference for me between tantalizing teasers and "this is what I am doing and here is all the information already". If the people are doing the former while keeping a certain level of discretion, absolutely 100% this is better for me than "100% flawless out of nowhere." In fact, I tend to completely ignore things that come out of nowhere and fly up at me. When movies come out and I haven't seen a single trailer/ad, I'm not going to bother. Sure, if I had some spare time and money and felt like throwing it at whatever, I might see it, but chances are best I'm going to spend that money for a slowly and well released product that I decided 5 months before it came out that I HAD to have due to the teasers.

Speaking only for myself, my level of interest drops very rapidly when I learn about a new project that hasn't been released yet.
From experience in j-fandoms, this is a rare thing. People will spend more money and spend it more easily on what they already know/had a chance to decide they like. Sure, it's not like no one buys things right off the bat, but if you look at the history of sales for pretty much anything; why do sequels to movies often make more than the originals? Sequels to video games? Why do major companies get away with occasionally putting out crap (that still sold a TON)? Why do people rush out to buy the newest iPhone despite having the prior model in perfect working condition and, if they waited, could have the new model for cheaper? Why do popular actors get more, bigger, and better work than new actors? People want familiarity, and they will pay for familiarity. There's a reason that novelists and manga writers and most anyone in showbiz of any kind never makes hardly crap on their first release. It's actually given as advice to novelists to plan their books in a minimum of a trilogy if they actually want to make any money; you get money after the familiarity is established, people will hand over stupid large buckets of money once they know you can provide, and the same goes for sales that come later on.

When you're new, especially if you have the TIME to do your research, and look around, and build a fanbase, it can really be an invaluable tool as far as sales as long as you make sure to update fairly regularly (internet interest is short, but easily regained, and one decent update a week can mean a LOT) with pieces that matter.
Check out the new interactive media project, Mitsumata(c). Follow 8 colorful characters in a story full of drama, horror, all sexualities and exciting gameplay~!

Development blog's up! Visit!

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Re: When to announce?

#17 Post by Samu-kun » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:27 am

I think there's a bunch of questions you need to ask yourself.

1. Can I make the WIP topic look good?
-Are there enough art assets finished so that you can properly advertise the game?
-Is the writer familiar enough with the story that he can summarize it in a few sentences and make it sound interesting?
-Can you show people something that separates your WIP topic from everyone else's?

2. Will I get distracted by the WIP topic and not have enough time to work on the project?

3. Am I absolutely certain that I can finish the project?
-If you have a track record of having scrapped projects in the past, then better not show anything unless you are almost finished with the game or you have something concrete you can show that will knock everyone's socks off.


The biggest advantage of having an WIP topic though is that it's one extra reason to keep working. You don't want to embarrass yourself by abandoning a project when you have an entire WIP topic, so excluding completely inescapable acts of fate, like your computer exploding on you at exactly the wrong time, you are just not going to quit.

Another advantage is that it ties you to a project. When I see a member, I generally think of him/her as "that one person who's working on that project," instead of some random person on the Internet. I'm already pretty familiar with your name though, as the person who makes the weird H games that I'm not very interested in. XD

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Re: When to announce?

#18 Post by Greeny » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:59 am

Samu-kun wrote:The biggest advantage of having an WIP topic though is that it's one extra reason to keep working. You don't want to embarrass yourself by abandoning a project when you have an entire WIP topic, so excluding completely inescapable acts of fate, like your computer exploding on you at exactly the wrong time, you are just not going to quit.
This is pretty much how I see it, and also why I created a WIP thread recently.
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Re: When to announce?

#19 Post by Samu-kun » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:09 am

On the other hand, you are taking a pretty big risk though. If you do post a WIP topic, but nobody cares and ignores it, then you're going to feel a massive loss in motivation. =_=

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Re: When to announce?

#20 Post by Wintermoon » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:27 am

kinougames wrote:When movies come out and I haven't seen a single trailer/ad, I'm not going to bother.
I'm not arguing against trailers. I'm arguing against premature trailers. When I see a good trailer, my interest level is at its highest. If I can see the movie right there and then, I will. If I see the trailer multiple times, I get annoyed and my interest drops. If I don't hear about the movie again, I forget about it.

Make your trailer, but release it after the game.
Samu-kun wrote:The biggest advantage of having an WIP topic though is that it's one extra reason to keep working. You don't want to embarrass yourself by abandoning a project when you have an entire WIP topic, so excluding completely inescapable acts of fate, like your computer exploding on you at exactly the wrong time, you are just not going to quit.
For public shame to work as a motivator, people first have to care about your project. What happens when public interest in the project inevitably wanes, and people stop caring whether you release it or not?

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Re: When to announce?

#21 Post by Applegate » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:42 pm

I think the problem with WIP threads is that, at some point in time, you will want to finish your project not because you like it, but because you feel obligated to do so.

Personally, I would rather not make a WIP thread unless I have come to a point that its release is no longer a question of "if", but "when"; for example, when the final art assets have to be completed, or if the script has entered its final editing phase... put simply, when it has progressed far enough that it is more of "an advance notice of release" than it is of "project #22211 WIP".

I do make exceptions when I feel that a WIP thread is the best way to provide people some knowledge on my progress if I intend to recruit people to aid me, but then it would more become a Progress Report, than it would be a thread advertising my premises, the ambitious list of features and a basic introduction of all the characters - I feel that those three do not belong in a work-in-progress thread, but rather a marketing topic or advertisement notice.

For most of what I do, I doubt I will ever release a WIP thread, and release the product only when it is completely finished. I may not be on-board the Hype Train, and I will likely have little publicity for the first month or two of release. But if what I produced is truly worth reading for a great audience, I hold every faith that it will reach that audience post-release.

Best of all, the people who first tried the game will have caught the miss steaks eye can knot sea. Everyone wins, except the ones who had to suffer the error-laden version.

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Re: When to announce?

#22 Post by cloudyssky » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:35 pm

I agree with Apple on the point that WIP kind of force you to finish with the feeling of obligation. Although, they can also motivate you as it can give uyou a source and sense of motivation. It goes both ways.
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Re: When to announce?

#23 Post by kinougames » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:48 pm

Wintermoon wrote:I'm not arguing against trailers. I'm arguing against premature trailers. When I see a good trailer, my interest level is at its highest. If I can see the movie right there and then, I will. If I see the trailer multiple times, I get annoyed and my interest drops. If I don't hear about the movie again, I forget about it.

Make your trailer, but release it after the game.
By this point, I'm already spending my money for things that had trailers several weeks ago that I've been anticipating ever since.
Check out the new interactive media project, Mitsumata(c). Follow 8 colorful characters in a story full of drama, horror, all sexualities and exciting gameplay~!

Development blog's up! Visit!

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Re: When to announce?

#24 Post by Wintermoon » Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:05 am

kinougames wrote:
Wintermoon wrote:I'm not arguing against trailers. I'm arguing against premature trailers. When I see a good trailer, my interest level is at its highest. If I can see the movie right there and then, I will. If I see the trailer multiple times, I get annoyed and my interest drops. If I don't hear about the movie again, I forget about it.

Make your trailer, but release it after the game.
By this point, I'm already spending my money for things that had trailers several weeks ago that I've been anticipating ever since.
"Already" is the wrong word. You mean that when you see the trailer, you are still spending your money on things that had trailers several weeks ago. You prefer to wait a couple of weeks between seeing the trailer and watching the movie. In the case of movies, that may be a problem, because the movie may no longer be in the theaters by then. In the case of visual novels, it's no problem at all. Just pretend that it's been released several weeks after its actual release and read it then.

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Re: When to announce?

#25 Post by Lekhaka » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:43 am

Just pretend that it's been released several weeks after its actual release and read it then.
By that logic someone with tastes similar to your own could just ignore the WIP thread and read it when it's released, pretending never to have seen it. :lol:

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Re: When to announce?

#26 Post by Wintermoon » Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:56 pm

Lekhaka wrote:By that logic someone with tastes similar to your own could just ignore the WIP thread and read it when it's released, pretending never to have seen it. :lol:
I already try to avoid WIP threads. However, it is precisely the impatient types - those who want to see the movie right after seeing the trailer and play the VN right after seeing the announcement - who are the most tempted to look at trailers and WIP threads.

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Re: When to announce?

#27 Post by Samu-kun » Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:43 pm

Not people who actually want to know what other people are working on? >:3

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Re: When to announce?

#28 Post by kinougames » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:14 pm

Wintermoon wrote:
kinougames wrote:
Wintermoon wrote:I'm not arguing against trailers. I'm arguing against premature trailers. When I see a good trailer, my interest level is at its highest. If I can see the movie right there and then, I will. If I see the trailer multiple times, I get annoyed and my interest drops. If I don't hear about the movie again, I forget about it.

Make your trailer, but release it after the game.
By this point, I'm already spending my money for things that had trailers several weeks ago that I've been anticipating ever since.
"Already" is the wrong word. You mean that when you see the trailer, you are still spending your money on things that had trailers several weeks ago. You prefer to wait a couple of weeks between seeing the trailer and watching the movie. In the case of movies, that may be a problem, because the movie may no longer be in the theaters by then. In the case of visual novels, it's no problem at all. Just pretend that it's been released several weeks after its actual release and read it then.
No, already is the exact correct word. I don't have prolonged care for things I've seen RIGHT THAT MINUTE. Several movies I thought I wanted to see after the trailers came out. But because I didn't want it enough to go immediately, and I ended up forgetting I ever cared. By the time I remember, I'm usually spending my time doing something that I have been able to watch grow and love already, and go "eh, fuck it" to the movie. The point is to get me to want it enough to buy it, period. I don't really want things on the spur of the moment, and if I do, it's not enough to spend cash on. I don't see a trailer and go OH MY GOD I NEED TO HAVE THIS and make sure I am at a theatre ASAP to spend my money. Almost all of my likes are things that I had to kind of roll with for a while, watching it, and then deciding if it was something I wanted to spend on.

Again, people's minds change between free and having to pay. If it's free, you use different rules. With having to pay, especially in a niche where the buyers are known to spend the largest amounts of money on things they're familiar with, it's worth it to work your fanbase. Heck, even having to DOWNLOAD things I wasn't sure of has actually caused me to ignore them for months and months, and that's just taking a few extra seconds of my time.
Check out the new interactive media project, Mitsumata(c). Follow 8 colorful characters in a story full of drama, horror, all sexualities and exciting gameplay~!

Development blog's up! Visit!

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Re: When to announce?

#29 Post by DaFool » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:21 pm

Got a protip in irc: Finish the game, then start a WIP pretending the game isn't yet finished. Spam it with progress reports and a release date. (During this time you would be bug-testing and letting things cook). Then bam, release the game with much success.

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