Petition for Ren'py Battle Engine

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Do you want a Ren'Py Battle System for one of your future games?

Yes - something Final Fantasy-inspired
11
65%
No - I don't think it adds anything to the experience
6
35%
 
Total votes: 17

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Watercolorheart
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Petition for Ren'py Battle Engine

#1 Post by Watercolorheart » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:53 am

Vote for what you want ... make suggestions ...

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monele
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#2 Post by monele » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:27 pm

I'd vote for : "Don't plan to use it, but it could be useful for those games who need a small RPG component". I found the battle sequences in Tales of Lemma amusing but I guess any more could get annoying ^^;...

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#3 Post by Taavimon » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:33 pm

What if somebody wants a battle system that's not FF inspired? I don't think it's a good idea to make everybody who likes the idea of a battle system to vote for a FF inspired one.

I think I might find uses for a battle system in some of the ideas that are bouncing in my head (I know, I know... I should concentrate on finishing my old projects first), but probably not one inspired by FF, so for now I'm not voting anything.

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#4 Post by papillon » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:28 pm

While I admit I'm biased since I already use more flexible tools, I would think one strength of Ren'Py would be its *focus* on just the one format.

Trying to bodge around and add things for originally unintended scopes tends to make things bloated, convoluted, harder to follow... and then someone will want a DIFFERENT kind of rpg system and beg for THAT to be added... :)

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#5 Post by Yang Sei Fu » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:37 pm

FF battle systems are too simple. Needs movement...
(I've attached a concept pic of what I meant)
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#6 Post by PyTom » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:40 pm

It's one thing to claim that a battle system needs movement, and another to be the guy who has to do the animation work needed to make a system like that workable. Especially for a fan-project, where boring work needs to be minimized.
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#7 Post by mikey » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:05 pm

PyTom wrote:Especially for a fan-project, where boring work needs to be minimized.
From now on, I'm quoting this everywhere. It sums up so much. :P

Back on topic, I'm not entirely sure that "the more dynamic the better", at least not in a ren'ai game that relies on text to convey the story. Take ToL as an example. The static nature of the VN is nicely worked with in the battle - if suddenly the mushrooms would become animated, there would be a sense of alienation for the player, since 95% of the time, everything is static. So for this kind of game the static approach is not only a far easier, but also a better alternative, even though there will always be those who claim it is a necessity turned to virtue.

Demanding features is once again the eternal battle of designer vs. programmer. I had to learn the hard way that as a designer you need to be in constant touch with your programmer, making him your friend rather than enemy (as is the case sometimes in bigger studios). So before drawing that swish (nothing personal Yang Sei Fu, just an example) that takes me 30 seconds to do in Windows Paintbrush, one has to think about the consequences for the programmers. I was able to become good friends with our programmers back in the old days, and I learned it is such an unrewarding thing to do, as they work their ***** off while the designer gets the credit (of course, the exec.prod gets the most credit, but that's another story). So being able to design a good game isn't as much being able to design a good game, but being able to design a game your studio can make well.

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#8 Post by PyTom » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:48 pm

mikey wrote:
PyTom wrote:Especially for a fan-project, where boring work needs to be minimized.
From now on, I'm quoting this everywhere. It sums up so much. :P
Thanks... I think. Before I changed it at the last minute, it originally read, "On a fan-project budget, boring work needs to be minimized." I think it applies both to straight out freeware fan-games, and the semi-commercial "we'll pay you when we make some money" enterprises that are out there. (Basically, anyone for which choosing to not work on a game will not result in a major change in their lifestyle.)

In these cases, people are donating what would would otherwise be their free time. While many people are willing to spend some time doing drudge work in order to accomplish what they consider an interesting task, the amount of interesting work needs to overcome the amount of boring work, or the person will make the rational decision and leave the project.

So as a game-designer, one of the variables that needs to be managed is the amount of boring work that has to be accomplished in order to make a complete project. Sure, animated battles are nice. But my feeling is that an artist who's willing to draw a 1-frame attack may find drawing 10 frames of that attack boring. And if that's the case, he's likely to leave. And a game that never gets done is much worse then one that is released without animations.

Okay, maybe this rant is a little obvious.

So for this kind of game the static approach is not only a far easier, but also a better alternative, even though there will always be those who claim it is a necessity turned to virtue.
I will concur. I think, especially in the VN market, people are willing to forgive alot in terms of lack of depiction in the graphics of things that are written about in the story. Even in commercial games, it's quite common to see the same background used to represent multiple places, or to have action described that is not shown visually on screen.
Demanding features is once again the eternal battle of designer vs. programmer.
I think this can almost be expanded to designer v. rest of team. In the example I was thinking of, while the feature might be easy to program. (Not in Ren'Py, but in some hypothetical RPGish combat engine), it would still increase the art required by one or two orders of magnitude... which is alot, especially for a project that isn't paying anybody.
So being able to design a good game isn't as much being able to design a good game, but being able to design a game your studio can make well.
Hear, hear!
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#9 Post by Megaman Z » Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:59 pm

PyTom wrote:Even in commercial games, it's quite common to see the same background used to represent multiple places, or to have action described that is not shown visually on screen.
and it's not just the renai ones at that. first one to find the (old DOS) game that has the following line in it gets a cookie... no, wait, a cupcake... wait... a cake? anyhow... the line is...
a strong grip on your shoulder spins you around.
(hint: game over immediately follows. you do NOT want to see this message.)
mikey wrote:So being able to design a good game isn't as much being able to design a good game, but being able to design a game your studio can make well.
point taken.
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#10 Post by Beta » Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:36 pm

*sigh* Zeta's still trying at that very same game... I think his game over count has hit four digits, and he hasn't cleared the stage in question... (I'm keeping my mouth shut on that game's name for now... but here's a hint: Abandonia has it... last we checked)

anyhow, I think PyTom is correct in waiting for someone to actually show a need for a battle system in a nearly-complete project (missing maybe an ending or two and the battle system) before he starts coding one into Ren'Py. just my two... hold on... *checks the appropriate type of currency*... two cents...?

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