Improved(?) Ren'Py battle engine poll

[Megaman Z]

There's that too but I think you just scared all the non-programmers out there.

*compacts self into a ball-form (one of the recent additions to my body) and rolls away... running into Otaku Dash and musical74* I can't code in Python... yet... (I need to learn... I have Civilization IV, which allows for mods using Python... romance turn-based game, anyone?)

[Alessio]

Hmm, tile-based system in your game? :ponders what Alessio's game will look like: That'd be interesting to see... 8)

Just to avoid misunderstandings, my next (first) game is tile-less. :) Just thinking about what to do next, after that game is released. ;)

[ShiraiJunichi]

*knows how to program... but runs away too! (I only know C++ and Java ;_;)

I have Civilization IV, which allows for mods using Python... romance turn-based game, anyone?

Are you suggesting turning Civilization into a Ren'ai game? *imagines "attacking" neighboring cities with beautiful women, until the cities defect, and join your empire*...

[mikey]

I guess it's all been said. I actually quite understand the requests though, but as eclipse pointed out... maybe all it needs is a litle more effort.

We're really geting so spoiled here, wanting dedicated engines and pre-made gameplay systems, pre-drawn graphics, right up to the point of wanting a game creation suite that spells "just add idea". Press the magic button and it's done.

But people can build houses from ice, airplanes from paper and if you recall your time at school, where you were drawing stick men on the corners of the pages of your book just to animate them by flipping the pages with your thumb, it's that kind of creativity that people forget about when presented with ever more perfect tools.

Perhaps if Ren'Py had a simple set of "if, else and random" commands and PyTom went on a well deserved Hawaii vacation until the end of time, people would HAVE TO start being creative and max out on every one of them, we'd undoubtedly see some ingenious ideas come to life.

In addition to that you also have to be fair with PyTom, who will always support you if you have something that can be finished (I know this, trust me). The technical support for Ren'Py is also just stunning. It isn't always this easy on other forums - post a question and get a reply.

Ren'Py is I believe the easiest and most flexible tool for an English-speaking VN developer. I am in favor of spicing the experience up for a special game with bits of extra programming, why not. But sometimes adding features to the basic version everyone will work with (you have to remember the newcomers here) like papillon mentioned in the other thread would mean losing the focus and it's the straightforwardness of it that has made so many games possible.

[PyTom]

We're really geting so spoiled here, wanting dedicated engines and pre-made gameplay systems, pre-drawn graphics, right up to the point of wanting a game creation suite that spells "just add idea". Press the magic button and it's done.

I think there's also an element here that tends to use the "if-only-there-was-x-I'd-surely-make-a-game" excuse to not make games. So I do need to triage people who actually need complicated Ren'Py features, from those who are simply asking for them because they know they won't be done.

(Please note I'm not accusing anyone in particular of this... but it is just a vibe I'm coming up with. Maybe it's just because it's been 90 days since the last game has been released... longer for me, since I had the privledge of playing GR a week or two before its official release.)

Perhaps if Ren'Py had a simple set of "if, else and random" commands and PyTom went on a well deserved Hawaii vacation until the end of time, people would HAVE TO start being creative and max out on every one of them, we'd undoubtedly see some ingenious ideas come to life.

Well, Ren'Py has those statements, and even a while statement. That's all that was needed to write DSE.

I doubt a Hawaii vacation would stop me... I'd bring a laptop and wifi card.

I'm actually starting to question if having randomness in a VN is really that good of an idea. Randomness takes control away from the user, and has the effect of hiding paths from him. I'm not sure if it's a good idea to hide portions of a game behind the souless output of a psuedo-random number generator.

Writing a general battle system would be annoyingly difficult, and would encourage people to make games that don't appeal to me. So I think that's another reason to shy away from it, and instead simply offer it to people who, when near finishing a game, still believe it's necessary.

IIRC, a number of commercial games depict action/combat while still falling into a standard VN format. So a combat system isn't strictly necessary for even that sort of game.

[mikey]

Maybe it's just because it's been 90 days since the last game has been released....

I'm sorry to say that there'll be no VN from ATPP until possibly/hopefully the -Mo events. Also, no more kinetic novels for me, G.Redux was an exception, because I really believe that in principle a game with choices is much better for getting immersed into the experience.

I'm actually starting to question if having randomness in a VN is really that good of an idea.

There is a point. Applied to a story... the more randomness the less depth, I'd say. I believe you can tell a good story with a reasonably free-choiced VN, but there's much less immersion in DS-games, stats-based. Or, rather, there is a different kind of immersion, but on the other hand a more gamey feel.

Maybe it's a good thing to reevaluate the basics. Sometimes fans tend to think that a VN can do everything. In my eyes a VN is good for certain kinds of stories, but it surely can't do everything. It is my constant "complaint" that many people seem to start with the idea and then look how to do it in a VN style (or Ren'Py), rather than looking at the visual novel style and the tool that is Ren'Py first, and then think what kind of narrative/style would be fitting. If you do it the other way around, you will inevitably find yourself blaming Ren'Py for lacking features that aren't really natural for it (and the VN as a whole).

It's an opinion.

[Kikered]

Regarding randomness, I think it's fine as long as it's used for easter eggs and other fun snippets that aren't critical to the story or paths available. It doesn't seem right to make something that is vital to the players' experience out of their control.

[Megaman Z]

Are you suggesting turning Civilization into a Ren'ai game? *imagines "attacking" neighboring cities with beautiful women, until the cities defect, and join your empire*...

right general idea, but I was figureing it to be more along the lines of alliances (and declarations of WAR) than what you're probably thinking.

*continues to sit there until someone mistakens him for a dodgeball... which may be a while*

I'm actually starting to question if having randomness in a VN is really that good of an idea.

I'll find some way of making it work that A) isn't an easter egg, and B) at worst, locks out 1 ending. (as in prevent access to). I've been thinking about using it for a certain month-long event...(NaNoRenO2K6)

[musical74]

Boy, it sure was crowded in that corner between Okatu Dash, me, MegaanZ and ShraiJunchi all hiding for awhile!

I'm kind of split down the middle as far as randomness goes...on one hand, it's a good idea to have variables, but if you have them it's also a good idea to limit how much randomness there is...I think the chief problem is making it so that gamers don't get frustrated over the randomness of the game...if you make a game that has *surprise events* or something like that...I think I'd like a game like that because it increases the replayability of the game...does that mean I'll be waiting for MegamanZ's next release?

[monele]

About randomness : the biggest downside to me seems to be replayability. If you replay to see 100% of the game, you don't want to be hindered by the fact an event will only appear if you're lucky.
One solution to this could be to have a list of random events and pick one randomly the first time, then pick on in the remaining unplayed events, and so on. That way, the player is assured to have seen them all after a certain number of playthroughs.