Questions about endings and such...

[azureXtwilight]

I am just wondering, since Visual Novel is about obtaining different endings. I just want to ask...

1. Are you playing to get a specific ending, get all to know the story from different POV or get all for the sake of completion?
2. Should games have true endings?
3. What kind of endings can be considered bad/good/normal?
That is all for now, it is for research purposes from all audiences

[papillon]

obvious (and true) answer - it depends on the needs of the story!

1. If the game is clearly one of those games focused on character paths, I'm probably playing at first to try and get a particular character's good ending. After that, if I enjoyed the writing, I'm probably playing to explore the story from different perspectives. I'll want to complete all the major goals/outcomes as part of that story exploration, but I probably won't bother chasing 100% completion if it involves fiddly little things. (like, if your game has 54 endings, and half of those are just "get killed by monsters" at different points, I'm not necessarily going to try and find every single way to die, I'll only go for the endings that look important)

2. Absolutely depends on the story.

3. Whatever the writer says they are. IIRC in Aoi Shiro, 'Bad End' meant 'any time the player is killed', and 'Normal End' meant that the player character was still alive at the end but hadn't completed the plot arc. Some of those Normal Ends were extremely depressing and would be called Bad Ends in other games, since OTHER characters were dead. In some games "normal end" means that you avoided all the character paths and ended up alone, so you didn't get anyone's good or bad ending and are therefore "normal".

The only real reason for tagging a BAD END note onscreen, IMO, is to make it clear to the player that this is not the only way things can turn out and that they should go try something else.

[Pyonkotchi]

1. Depends. If its a romance game I'll try for a particular boys ending, and if its a really interesting story, maybe the characters are all really interesting. or perhaps you added an air of mystery, and played it so well that I, the reader, will want to know the full side of the story, (or theres a true ending, which I'll probably replay just to know the canon). otherwise I'll probably try for 100% but get bored half through and look for another game P:

2. Depends on the game, if its more of a story, where your choices on affect the character a little bit, but he or she still has interests, a personality, and what not, I'd like a canon ending, since that kinds of character would have chosen something
or if theres a sequel, there should be a canon P: But if the main character is nothing more than a mere shell for the player to step into, I'd rather no canon ending,

3. Hmmm, usually the "bad" ending is well...bad. You might die before you defeat the big bad, If its a romance, you might spend the rest of your life alone and miserable,
and some bad endings are "evil" endings, protagonist defeats the bad guy but succumbs to his inner darkness and instead takes the evil overlord throne.

While normal endings can involve you winning, but something happens along the way that makes it more or less bittersweet. like:"You've defeated the bad guy, and the girl fell for you, but you lost your best friend along the way, your girlfriend died tragically, sacrificing herself so you may live. Even though you save many lives and made the world a better place, It doesn't feel "right"" or something....

Usually a good ending would be happy, the hero is reunited with his long lost brother and they all become known as heros, or the guy gets the girl. people are allowed to die along the way, it could even be kind of heart breaking, but it wouldn't make the ending so bad that it'd better fit as a normal or bad end.

as for true endings, those don't have to be happy, they can be heartbreaking if you want, true doesn't mean its the happiest. A lot of people like happy endings but I think depending on the story, and how well you write it, sometimes the saddest ending can be accepted as true, and 'right', if you can touch your audience's hearts :'D

[Another]

1. Are you playing to get a specific ending, get all to know the story from different POV or get all for the sake of completion?
I'm definitely a completionist who try to get all the endings for the challenge. Yet, I would feel unsatisfied if I followed a path without learning anything new about the story. In other words, each ending should have a significant reason to exist.

2. Should games have true endings?
Not necessary. Usually, the true ending is the one that reveals the most about the story. But it's also possible an ending is labelled as true only to serve as starting point for a potential sequel. In other cases, it's probably better to let the player decide which one he considers as true, because he might not share the author's opinion. Moreover, there are many novels where different endings are equally true, and it's not a bad thing.

3. What kind of endings can be considered bad/good/normal?
It really depends on the game. Bad endings may correspond to premature ends (the main character is unable to fulfill his main goal because he died, renounced, missed an important item,...). But bad endings are also those where the main character decides to follow an evil path, while he wasn't originally malevolent.
Normal endings would be those where the main character only achieves his main objective. In good endings, he'll usually gain something more.

The problem with "bad" and "good" is that those terms are quite vague, and depend on the point of view. A good ending from the author's perspective may be considered as bad by the player. A good ending is not necessary happy. And there are also games where that distinction is not pertinent, like [text]. When categorizing the endings amongst good/bad/normal/true starts to become really difficult, it might be worth using more precise/appropriate words.

One game that is relevant for this question is Winter Shard. Most endings are labelled from Worst to Better, but many factors determine their rank. There are two better endings because F.I.A. wanted to let the player choose which ending is the best. Yet, there's a true ending (and also an unfulfilled one that is not completely gratuitous).

[Sapphi]

1. My first playthrough is usually just me having fun and choosing what seems right at the time. If it's character-centric, I choose the character I like best to pursue the first time. If I really liked the game, I will probably try to get all the important endings. If there's a CG gallery and I like the art, I will definitely be curious about any CGs that are locked after the initial playthrough and try again to get them.

2. I guess it depends what kind of story you write. For my game, I think it would be fun to someday make a sequel, and I was also thinking about making a few comics (4koma?) centered around the story after I finish development. For me, it's necessary to have a "true" ending because without it, there would be no base for a comic story or sequel. But in a sense, you could say that all my endings are "true" because they all represent things that could easily happen in that universe. For instance, not to go too much in depth, but there's a route where two of the characters in Doki Doki Collar fight over you and eventually one of them gets killed by the other (the one who gets killed depends on who you favor). While in the main storyline none of my characters are actively trying to kill each other off, the route is a scenario of what might happen if their rivalry was encouraged.

3. In my game's terms, a normal ending is a non-romantic, decent ending. A good ending is probably going to have some romance involved. And a bad ending will involve a character death or similar misfortune. However, I will say that I don't want my "bad" endings to become simply "SHE/YOU DIED! TRY AGAIN!" because I really think that degrades the quality of the story. It's fine for arcade games, but not for a Visual Novel because VN's are story-based, not jumping and shooting. I mean, in a sense, I hope even my "bad" endings are "good" in the sense that they shed a new perspective on the story and help you get to know the characters in a different way.

So I think in the end, it's up to you how to define what's bad and what's good.... I ramble too much. ^_^;

[nefferinthia]

1. Are you playing to get a specific ending, get all to know the story from different POV or get all for the sake of completion?

In romance games I obviously try to end up with the guy/girl I like best but otherwise I just choose what I would do in real life. I'm not really that much of a completionist actually but when the writing/plot is interesting enough I'll try getting all endings that seem relevant.

2. Should games have true endings?

I think not. What's the use in being able to make choices and having different endings if there is only one 'real' ending and the others are 'tacked on' for the player's convenience. Under certain circumstances, I don't mind and a true ending is necessary when you plan on having a sequel but honestly, I'd avoid them as long as I could.

3. What kind of endings can be considered bad/good/normal?

Well, obviously, endings in which you die/don't finish the storyline should be marked bad as a hint to the player that there's more but aside from that I think you can decide what's good or bad. I really like how it was done in the Shin Megami Tensei series; you an join different sides and gain different endings but they aren't labeled 'Good' and 'Bad' but 'Lawful' and 'Chaos'.

[Jake]

My take:

since Visual Novel is about obtaining different endings.

I disagree a bit - to me, visual novels are 'about' telling stories in a different - and sometimes more-immersive or more-involving - way to traditional prose-only storytelling. Choices can be used to strengthen the story and you can write VNs with many different endings that compel people to see them all, but it's far from what VNs are about, to me at least!

1. Are you playing to get a specific ending, get all to know the story from different POV or get all for the sake of completion?

With most games, I will play through once, with the choices that make the most sense to me, get the one ending, and then stop.

If there's a plot which obviously isn't finished after that one ending and I'm intrigued enough by it, then I'll go through and play it again and again to find out more of that plot... but generally I won't just play to get to other characters' endings or things like that.

2. Should games have true endings?

Depends on the game, really. Again - if you've got a plot where bits and pieces of it are explained here and there, it's nice to have an explains-everything or at least an explains-the-thing-behind-everything ending so the player can get one last satisfied "now I know the story" feeling. If you're doing a straight-up romance game then I don't see the need for a 'true' ending, because it kind of implies that the other endings aren't so worthwhile. If you're going to write a sequel, you quite possibly have to decide on a canon ending, but even then it's not always necessary; some games have just had sequels written in such a way that it doesn't matter what exactly happened at the end of the last one, and some games have had sequels which pick up on the endings options from the previous games and incorporate them as different paths through the sequel.

3. What kind of endings can be considered bad/good/normal?

Do they need to be classified, even?

If I had to make an arbitrary distinction, I would say that a "bad end" is one where the player doesn't 'finish' the plot but got kicked out early, a "normal end" is one where they finish the plot with an intentionally-not-so-satisfactory-as-it-could-be ending, and a "good end" is finishing the plot with an intentionally-satisfactory ending. But not only is it a fairly arbitrary distinction, it's also not really applicable to VNs in general - if I write a story with a sad ending which ties everything up, which is my intended proper ending for the story, is that a "good end"? The player should hopefully be more satisfied because it's completed the plot and not left loose threads all over the place, but it's not necessarily a happy end...

[Arithra]

1. Are you playing to get a specific ending, get all to know the story from different POV or get all for the sake of completion?
Well at first I will just play for the sake of playing. If it is a dating game, I will try to aim for the guy I like the most. Since I mostly end up with a bad ending first I will play a game at least two times. After that it depends on the story. Do I want to now more?
If I do I go for the endings that interest me the most first and than after those who don't seem to be all that good.
If there is a CG gallery I ofter try to get all the endings because I want to see the pictures.

2. Should games have true endings?
If the true ending is the ending where most of the secrets are cleared up I think yes, games should have a true ending, but if the true endings makes all the other endings seem stupid I think not. To Dating games that are not only about dating but have an important story as well, than a true ending is fitting, if its only about dating I think a true ending would only be bad for all the other endings.

3. What kind of endings can be considered bad/good/normal?
Labeling them good/bad/normal may be easier if you come up with a story and it's twists and turns. But generale I prefer endings that are given names.
Which can be considert which depend on the story of the game I think. If it is a romance story bad would be you don't get anybody, or just don't end up together, normal would be together but it could be better, and good is what I consider the best possible ending under the given circumstances.

[Robert Kirkland]

1. Are you playing to get a specific ending, get all to know the story from different POV or get all for the sake of completion?
Specific endings for the characters I like. Sometimes I try to get endings for the CGs so I can stare at them. Jiiii

2. Should games have true endings?
No thanks. Clannad did this, did not like.

3. What kind of endings can be considered bad/good/normal?
Bad: character death, heartbreak/rejection, suicide, etc. Good: characters end up together, married, everyone's happy, etc. Normal: nothing special happens.

[okonomiyaki]

1. Are you playing to get a specific ending, get all to know the story from different POV or get all for the sake of completion?
If the game has different arcs where you can learn the story from different POVs (and the first ending was decent), then yes. If not, then I'll play for endings I'm most interested in.

2. Should games have true endings?
That really depends. If the game is short, I think a "true" ending is kind of a bit of a cop out, because the other 2-3 endings end up being "bad" endings. Otherwise, for longer games, it really, really depends on how well it's done. The game I'm working on has a "canon" ending, but about 5 of the 6-7 other endings are just different spins/sides of that ending. The other two are "alt" endings. I think that's a pretty cool way to do it.

3. What kind of endings can be considered bad/good/normal?
Good endings are endings that complete the story, no matter what the content is. Normal endings are endings that complete the story in a rather dull manner...nothing special, no special scenes, no extra CGs. Bad endings are endings where your game gets cut short, again, no matter what happens.

[Blue Lemma]

1: I always do my first playthrough as just a general do-what-I-like but without walkthroughs. After that, I'll use a walkthrough to get specific endings. An exception is a really really really long game that doesn't let you skip much (i.e. Agarest). I'll go walkthrough for those sometimes from the beginning, because I'm probably not going to play again.

2: I put a "true ending" in Zenith Chronicles because I have a plan for Zenith Chronicles 2 based on that. It's also the ending in which you figure out the mysteries of the world... and it just FELT right.

[Aetheria]

"True" endings seem to be a bit tricky. On the one hand, having a "true" ending can be a way to create continuity between games, or to show the player several different facets of the story through other endings and then pull them all together in a nice big reveal. On the other, a single "true" (read: "best") ending can take away a lot of the fun of having multiple non-losing endings in the first place.

Well, I like using examples, and I might as well cut to the chase here - so take "Fantasia: Requiem of the Abyss," which I guess would be an appropriate example for this topic. I think it was fairly obvious that the author considered the ending in which Valen, the heroine, ends up with Cain, her demon bodyguard, as the "true" ending and treated it accordingly. As a player, and one who enjoyed the game overall, I thought this was a poor design decision for a couple of different reasons.

First, the game has a dating-sim aspect to it. Even though there's a strong over-arching plot, it moves along without much input from the player. The choices you make and the endings you get are heavily slanted towards "obtaining" one or another of the characters. And since the whole point of having more than one obtainable character in a game like this is that people find different "types" attractive, telling players that one of them is the "real" goal is kind of pointless - de gustibus non est disputandum. I'm not really into the "emo demon" type, so I said "to heck with this 'true' ending, I'm going after Prince Nazim instead" and the story I got as a result was indeed very cute and made me go "aww" and I enjoyed it, but it was irritating that the game seemed to be pushing me away from all the perfectly good (from my perspective) alternative endings and towards Cain's. It just doesn't matter which is the "true" ending when they're all equivalent to the player.

Which brings me to the second point. The player's instinct that all endings are equally good (in this kind of game) doesn't mesh well with using a "true" ending as a hook for a sequel. From playing the demo for the next game in the series, I'm pretty sure that the sequel assumes Valen and Cain ended up together. But because that wasn't my experience when I played the game, it felt odd that the game was assuming that, and it damaged the feeling of the series as a coherent whole. Why give the player a choice of endings when it's just going to be assumed that they got the "true" one?

In the end, it seemed like the author had two different goals in mind for the story - on the one hand, telling an epic love story between two particular characters, and on the other, giving players a lot of different character endings to choose from. I'm just not sure that those two goals can coexist very comfortably; if the game is meant to be really about two main characters, it should stick to being about them, but if it's meant to offer the player the choice of focusing on one of several different characters, it shouldn't make all but one choice marginal and meaningless in the sequel. Having a "true" ending would work better in another kind of game - say, a mystery game, where the true ending is the one where you solve the mystery completely, and other endings reveal alternate views of the story or more information about the characters.

...Anyway, since this turned out to be more of a critique, don't take it to mean that I thought the game was bad, though! As I said, I enjoyed playing it, but like pretty much every game, it had room for improvement, and that was one thing that jumped out at me.

[Marcelo_Orlando]

I like the true ending. When I play a game that is what I want to see. The story is what gets me interested and I like to see how it ends. After I've gotten the true ending if the story is really good I'd go back and get the funny, strange, and wtf endings.

[pondrthis]

On completion:

I consider a VN a complete work. I feel like it's disrespectful to the author and artists to miss a single scene. (My opinion for myself, that doesn't mean everyone should play the games this way...) This is probably why I prefer flowcharts to "this is how you get X ending" walkthroughs. I usually don't use them until the second playthrough, though.

On true endings:

This is a pretty simple one for me. If the game has justifiable unlockable routes/endings, the last unlocked route is the true ending. If there are no unlockable routes/endings, then you shouldn't call it "true". I personally don't mind being told that a character I didn't like a lot is the true love interest, though... in fact, I don't think my favorite has EVER been the true heroine. T.T

On "good/normal/bad" endings:

I'm fine with whatever lingo the author wants to use (I'll never understand how Akiha's "normal" ending in Tsukihime is "normal"), but in my head I usually refer to a good ending as the route's actual ending, good or bad. A bad ending is anything else. I don't usually think of endings as "normal".

[musical74]

Let's see...

The first time I play a VN, it's more about *finishing the novel*, THEN try different paths to see what those paths will give me. I do like multiple endings!

Regarding a true ending...it really does depend on the novel. I don't mind having a true ending, but the ending has to be somewhat easy to find...if it's a bit challenging, that's fine, but when it's *OK I've played this thing 32 times and it keeps saying *you didn't get the true ending, where is it?!*...that's when I'll pass on getting the true ending!

Regarding an ending that is good/bad/normal... that depends on what you want it to be! Consider this: the author might think that you win a girl's trust but don't go on the fabled date, so it's a *normal ending*...but I might like that she tells me everything, considers me her confidant...heck with the date! Bad endings are easier to prove, you fail to complete the objective at all.