Lemma Soft Forums

I am laboring under the presumption that it is not only possible, but quite desirable, to build educational games. The Ren'Py game I am working on will, I hope, educate my students while it entertains. But I know it's an uphill battle. Soooooooo many edu-games are sooooooooo terrible....

So I thought I would post here and see if folks had some ideas on how and educational game could at least be better than a mediocre class lesson, and, best-case, truly fun and truly enlightening.

I know examples exist of educational games that have met with commercial success: The Oregon Trail and Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego? are two oft-cited examples. I don't know if I feel they are great examples, however. Have you actually ever played Oregon Trail? It's a pretty bad game--more of a CYOA than a proper game, at least in its earlier iterations.

So I have a few ideas on why a game can be both educational and fun. In no particular order:

• 1. Good art is fun and is often educational. I teach English and Literature; I use novels and stories every day I teach. These are works of fiction that, presumably at least, are aesthetically pleasing--that is, people like 'em. They can also teach readers everything from history to politics to proper sentence structure to _____________. Insofar as a game is another medium for art, it should be able to be both good art and educational.
  
  2. Games teach people in ways other means of conveying information can't. A well-made game appeals to its players not just because of its trappings, but because of its underlying mechanics. A game with thoughtfully created mechanics lend their own insight into the thing being studied. The standard example here is war-gaming: since the beginning of war, armies have played war games to simulate battle conditions and prepare for combat. But some games better simulate war than others, and those that are better are better specifically because they are more educational about war.
  
  3. Games are, by definition, low-stakes: something stops being a game when the stakes get too high. That means you can fail multiple times at it--in fact, if you didn't fail several times before winning, the game would suck, and you would feel ripped off. In that way, a game encourages you to keep trying, build on what you learn, and think creatively when you face a new problem, since if it doesn't work out, you can always reset. I wish education always worked in such an inviting and forgiving way, instead of just giving high-stakes tests, one after another, that punish you for not being perfect the first time through.

So then, if the above are true--and please tell me if they're not, or flawed, or whatever!--then the question is this: what can an educational game designer do from the outset to make a game that is going to convey the necessary content of the discipline in question while remaining fun?

Edu games are basically what got me into gaming. Number Munchers and Math Blasters introduced me to the wonderful world I wasn't apart of. Oregon Trail remakes are actually fun, though frustrating. A lot of people input their friends names as the characters, which is probably why they kept playing -- to see if Beth would die. I think being able to insert a piece of yourself like that gives a significant boost to the game's fun. It's not just being shoved down you're throat, you're participating. And you can type "****MUNCHER" as a name and giggle. (We're talking kids here.) So, instant fun if you can name things. It's the least you could do, really.

I found art didn't really matter. Sometimes kids want to make fun of how stupid a character looks. Builds rapport with their classmates when they laugh and agree. Again, laughter > memories > okay game. But I'm certainly not going to argue that good graphics won't be awesome as well. I wouldn't go for overtly professional graphics, though. And don't make it just text-text-text, black and white. Make it buttons and colors and icons. Definitely icons.

Actual gameplay I think would depend on the subject, perhaps. If it's a math game -- I can't help you. You'll need it to be action for it to be fun, and I'm not sure Ren'Py is the best engine for that. If it's history, branches in the story to show "what if's" and perhaps a completely changed world in the end might teach them what really happened and how it affected our world. Literature I suppose would just be a retelling or summary of the story and not really a game. Unless you added trivia questions. Quizzes aren't fun! Games like Bookworm and Bookworm Adventures can easily be an educational game if the words are vocabulary you're teaching (like foreign language classes), and that game is just plain fun.

I think, really, a fun educational game needs to give the kid control of the situation, either by exploring a map or something similar. Or it's a puzzle. And what makes a puzzle fun is totally different from what makes an edu game fun. Scores are kinda meaningless unless you can compare them openly as a class, so having a set ending is what the kid should aim for. You need to go to ___, but you need to get 3 keys to do so (like Super Solvers or Treasure Mountain). How you earn keys is your educational material. So it's not really about the educational material, it just seems like a mini-game at that point.

But yeah. Not making the game linear is the best advice I can give.

A really fun edu game I still like to play is Museum Madness. It gives the kid control to explore and unlock exhibits as they please. It was an adventure game, but it taught me a lot about history when I was younger. And I'd still play it today. Gosh, I also play Dinopark Tycoon. But it's really hard. O_O Dino Safari was fun, too ... Takin' pictures of dinosaurs! I think half the old Sims games count as educational. And those are awesome. Good puzzle games, like Dr. Brain or Dr. Quandary (ancestors of Prof. Layton) are still fun today -- but focusing them on one educational subject would be hard. Games that told a story were fun because you could click almost anywhere on the screen and the object would react. Like the cookie jars would start singing if you clicked them. Storybook/adventure games I think they were called.

Have you actually ever played Oregon Trail? It's a pretty bad game--more of a CYOA than a proper game, at least in its earlier iterations.

... Well yes, I have, and like many people of my age range found it to be fun. It's strange to talk about choices not being a 'proper game' here on a VN forum! It was certainly more strategy-based than a pure VN, and there were the minigame segments (even if many kids missed the messages about not WASTING their bullets because they were having too much fun shooting stuff)

Another 'educational' game I played long after the point where I was supposed to be learning anything from it was Super Solvers Outnumbered. The SuperSolvers series in general is somewhat fondly remembered.

More recently I've heard good things about some science-based adventure games that are largely about fooling around with stuff to see what happens, with lots of possible reactions (rather than just "right" and "you can't do that" which a lot of adventure games are like) That's an important key to learning in anything other than a quiz-style game - being able to get things wrong, see the RESULTS of getting it wrong, and have an idea of what you can do better next time.

One of the problems with educational gaming is that anyone getting funding to make educational games feels the need to keep a strong focus on the discipline being taught - reasonable, but it means that the game itself isn't supposed to be too compelling or it would become a distraction. A good role-playing game set in some historical period would encourage interest in the historical period to many people playing it, but not all of them, and many of them would be distracted by the gamy elements and just play to PLAY and then someone would complain it wasn't really an educational game.

I don't know if it counts as an educational game, but I loved Age of Empires when I was a kid. For those who aren't familiar, it was an RTS whose levels were loosely structured around historical events back in the days of the Babylonians, Hittites, Eqyptians, etc. While I was already somewhat familiar with stuff like that from church, the game made it real to me, and it wasn't a boring history lesson because it wasn't trying to be particularly educational. By the time we learned about that stuff in school, it was of much greater interest to me because I loved AoE so much, lol.

Other educational games I loved were Word Rescue and to a much greater extent, Math Rescue. They were DOS games IIRC. The awesome thing about them was that for educational games, the premise was just so trippy. (These aliens come from outer space and decided to steal all the numbers from everything. You have to get the numbers back, and avoid the aliens. To get rid of them, you summon an enormous butterfly to pour buckets of purple slime on them. lol, what were the developers on?!) I think what made them fun is that they were primarily platformers that worked the educational content into the game in a fun way. They still had enemies and pitfalls apart from that, so you could turn the educational stuff off if you wanted to and it would still be a fun game.

Math Rescue was really good at encouraging fast (basic) math calculations because IIRC you had to solve a certain number of math problems per level, and you did that by jumping to collect squares with numbers on them. You would then enter a screen with more numbered squares, 0-9, with your character underneath them and a math problem above them. You only had a couple seconds to input the right answer by running and jumping to hit the correct digits. It certainly made it fun to do math for me at least ^_^

Another thing... I remember we had to 'play' "Paws in Typing Town" at our school computer lab, but it wasn't so much a game that teaches you how to type than a series of typing drills that posed as a game. Then again, there was an "arcade" feature that we weren't allowed to play, we were just supposed to do the typing drills, so I might be completely off in my assessment. However, aren't there games now where you type phrases in order to shoot down oncoming enemies? As a kid, I think I would have been MUCH more excited about keyboarding had it been presented to me that way.

So with all that said, I think my experience has been that the best educational games are those that concentrate on gameplay first, education second. Because if the game is fun to play, kids will definitely enjoy spending time with it. And that will lead to more exposure to and familiarity with the content you are trying to present.

Thanks for these thoughtful and intelligent replies, everyone! Sorry for not responding sooner: the mid-week is generally my busiest time at work.

Aleema, I am very happy to have learned that educational gaming had such a profound effect on you! Also, this quote of yours

I think, really, a fun educational game needs to give the kid control of the situation, either by exploring a map or something similar. Or it's a puzzle. And what makes a puzzle fun is totally different from what makes an edu game fun.

rings especially true for me. The game I am trying to make is meant for ages 13 and up; I hope to make a game kids enjoy, but that adult learners will, too. But at any age, giving players "meaningful choices" is necessary, I think, so that players feels like they are creating their own experience of the game.

I do disagree with you about this, though:

Quizzes aren't fun!

Quiz shows are an American staple on television, and Trivial Pursuit was a bonafide American craze once upon a time. Quizzes can be fun! I think the quiz's fun-value depends on how it's presented, as well as how it rewards and punishes. I think papillion describes very well how a quiz game can be fun here:

That's an important key to learning in anything other than a quiz-style game - being able to get things wrong, see the RESULTS of getting it wrong, and have an idea of what you can do better next time.

Definitely: to me, that's the heart of what games do well and school does not. Students should be rewards for learning from mistakes, not punished for making them in the first place.

But papillion, I wanted to clear up something you brought up in your post. Specifically, this:

It's strange to talk about choices not being a 'proper game' here on a VN forum!

I humbly submit it's not so strange, since Ren'Py specifically advertises itself as a platform for creating visual novels and kinetic novels: that is, two kinds of novels. Ren'Py is at heart a platform for literary creation. That heart is certainly enhanced with python-y ways to create games, but the games in this case are oftentimes there to enhance the storytelling. And insofar that literature and games are different, Ren'Py is different from game-creation platforms.

That said, that literature can be "gamed up" easily via Ren'Py is exactly why I am here making a VN to help students learn! I want student to learn via play, because, as Sapphi writes:

the best educational games are those that concentrate on gameplay first, education second. Because if the game is fun to play, kids will definitely enjoy spending time with it. And that will lead to more exposure to and familiarity with the content you are trying to present.

If I can tie the mechanics of the game directly to the content, and then create a skin for those mechanics that players will find appealing, I will succeed in generating the kind of experience Sapphi describes above. It's a dang hard thing to do, I know.

Oh, and should I tell you what content I and trying to teach my students? It's ... grammar. Yes, grammar. I want to create a game that makes learning grammar fun. Cough.

Pray for me.

Sumoslap wrote:

Quizzes aren't fun!

Quiz shows are an American staple on television, and Trivial Pursuit was a bonafide American craze once upon a time. Quizzes can be fun! I think the quiz's fun-value depends on how it's presented, as well as how it rewards and punishes.

Oh, I agree. But in a school setting, quizzes are just more school. To adults and people who can actually enjoy basking in their knowledge, yes. Quizzes are a great way to tickle your brain. But giving a kid a quiz and calling it a game is like the lowest form of entertainment you can go, really.

Good luck with making grammar fun.

"When giving treats to friends or children, give them what they like, emphatically not what is good for them."
--Author G.K. Chesterton

Never let the game aspect become secondary to the learning you hope to impart. If you do so, you've betrayed your game and your lesson. Educational games can be effective because they are, first and foremost, fun. If they're not fun, you've failed.

The better question is what makes games in general fun for the target audience you're aiming for.

* * *

EDIT: Making the lesson part of the lore or strategy of the game will allow gamers to learn it simply through repeat playing (or through trying to maximize their gameplay performance). Challenge and competition also motivates some people to improve at games. Meanwhile, for the timid, encouragement is far more important. To paraphrase the monk Benedict of Nursia, the best games give the strong something to strive for and give the weak nothing to run from.

Sumoslap wrote:
Oh, and should I tell you what content I and trying to teach my students? It's ... grammar. Yes, grammar. I want to create a game that makes learning grammar fun. Cough.

Pray for me.

I might be more than a little biased because for some reason grammar always came naturally to me as a kid while my classmates were going out of their minds trying to understand it, but... Schoolhouse Rock made learning grammar (and everything else) fun just by being all 70s about it. I think you don't have to worry about it so much :b

Oh Sapphi, please do count your blessings for being one of the few for whom grammar comes easily. Perhaps it's time I reveal that I teach at a community college in NYC, and the game I want to create is not just for kids (though I want to make it kid-friendly, too): it is specifically for college-aged students in my developmental writing and English 101 courses. I can attest from the front lines that for many students, even college-aged students, grammar is prohibitively difficult and demoralizingly confusing. I may be on a fool's errand in my quest to make a VN/game that will reach them when nothing else has, but the point is, nothing else has! I've got to try!

The older you are, the more difficult for you to learn a language. That's why in my country, they jam your brain with three language lesson (Indonesia, Chinese, and English) since the first grader.

Sumoslap wrote:Oh Sapphi, please do count your blessings for being one of the few for whom grammar comes easily. Perhaps it's time I reveal that I teach at a community college in NYC, and the game I want to create is not just for kids (though I want to make it kid-friendly, too): it is specifically for college-aged students in my developmental writing and English 101 courses. I can attest from the front lines that for many students, even college-aged students, grammar is prohibitively difficult and demoralizingly confusing. I may be on a fool's errand in my quest to make a VN/game that will reach them when nothing else has, but the point is, nothing else has! I've got to try!

Hm, I can see how that would be a lot more challenging =/
Well, good luck, haha ^_^;

LVUER wrote:The older you are, the more difficult for you to learn a language. That's why in my country, they jam your brain with three language lesson (Indonesia, Chinese, and English) since the first grader.

You're very, very lucky to have a school system like that in your country. I'm jealous! Over here, I think the norm is to learn only English up until high school when you might have to take a couple years of ONE other language. I'm slowly learning Japanese, mostly because I want to be able to understand and enjoy games and manga that hasn't been translated, but also because I like it. Now, I wouldn't expect our school system to teach Japanese, but it would be nice if at least Spanish would have been introduced to us in first grade rather than 10th. Where I live, we have a lot of people who speak only Spanish, or they can speak English but not very well. It would have been nice to be raised with it so that I could communicate with these people instead of pretty much just ignore them because I don't understand what they're saying.

I agree with Sapphi. I only had to take Spanish for 2 years in highschool, and I hardly remember anything from it.

As for an grammar game for all ages... Why not a simple non-story puzzle game? Those are popular and easy for anyone to get into. Look at all those indie games for the iphone, so many of them are just simple puzzle games and they entertain people for hours. An edu-game with a story is hard to do and gets boring after awhile, however a puzzle with bright graphics and increasing level difficulty is exciting.
Just a though

Fawn: I'm not sure about that.

If it were math or something, I would agree that a story game would be weird, but the best way to teach grammar is through reading and hearing it. That's how anyone learns a language.

If you look at the kids who are naturally good at grammar, it's usually because their parents used correct grammar while speaking to them. In my case, my father is a bit of an indie novelist, so I was encouraged to practice writing at a young age. Now, correct grammar comes naturally to me, which I'm eternally grateful for (especially when it comes to those last-minute essays that I don't have time to proofread...har har).

I have to say that I've always been disgusted with how illiterate my generation is. When you get to be my age (college-age), you should know the difference between "were" and "where" and what constitutes a correct sentence, but I feel that the root cause of this lies in primary education. If kids were taught at a younger age how important grammar is and how to use it, they might be more likely to carry that through the rest of their education.

Anyway, I think that if you're looking to make a game to teach grammar, then a story-based VN would actually be the best way to go, especially for college-age kids. It would have to be interesting, though, and as mentioned, choices are important. I can't help but think a mystery game would be kind of cool, like one with mini-games that test the student's knowledge of grammar in a fun way. That's where there could possibly be the kind of puzzle games Fawn mentioned. The answers could lead to clues, which would ultimately culminate in the solution to the mystery. That would interest me, at least, and I think with the popularity of shows like "House" among my age group, a mystery game could be popular among others, too. Just make sure that the path to the solution is clear so you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure it out. xP

I wish you the best of luck. C:

broken_angel wrote:Fawn: I'm not sure about that.

If it were math or something, I would agree that a story game would be weird, but the best way to teach grammar is through reading and hearing it. That's how anyone learns a language.

If you look at the kids who are naturally good at grammar, it's usually because their parents used correct grammar while speaking to them. In my case, my father is a bit of an indie novelist, so I was encouraged to practice writing at a young age. Now, correct grammar comes naturally to me, which I'm eternally grateful for (especially when it comes to those last-minute essays that I don't have time to proofread...har har).

I have to say that I've always been disgusted with how illiterate my generation is. When you get to be my age (college-age), you should know the difference between "were" and "where" and what constitutes a correct sentence, but I feel that the root cause of this lies in primary education. If kids were taught at a younger age how important grammar is and how to use it, they might be more likely to carry that through the rest of their education.

Anyway, I think that if you're looking to make a game to teach grammar, then a story-based VN would actually be the best way to go, especially for college-age kids. It would have to be interesting, though, and as mentioned, choices are important. I can't help but think a mystery game would be kind of cool, like one with mini-games that test the student's knowledge of grammar in a fun way. That's where there could possibly be the kind of puzzle games Fawn mentioned. The answers could lead to clues, which would ultimately culminate in the solution to the mystery. That would interest me, at least, and I think with the popularity of shows like "House" among my age group, a mystery game could be popular among others, too. Just make sure that the path to the solution is clear so you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure it out. xP

I wish you the best of luck. C:

True true.

A mystery game sounds perfect for that!!! You could also have to re-arrange ripped up letters for clues too (re-arranged so it's the best grammar of course lol), there's so many grammar-y things for a mystery game.

Sadly, there are so many exceptions to each grammar rule that it's painfully difficult to teach them in any kind of logical manner (it ends up being more about memorization than anything else). My suggestion is that you incorporate a number of 'incorrect' sentences, and allow the player to root those sentences out and find a way to fix them.

Just as an idea: pick a number of common grammatical mistakes, and assign each one of those mistakes to a different character. That way, the people playing the game will start to recognize, "Hey wait, that person doesn't speak correctly... and they keep making that same mistake!" If the player can learn the pattern of mistakes that a certain character makes, they'll have effectively learned that grammar rule, right? Right?! I don't know!

The hard part is not naming your characters 'Johnny Split-Infinite' and 'Mary Bring-Takely'.