When choosing options for your MC in VNs...

[Rina]

In VNs, how do you want your options laid out for you? And by options, I mean by choices. Let's say the game you're playing allows your character to become evil, good, or simply neutral. Would you want those transitions obvious, or would you want a more subtler approach?

Like, let's say that you were playing a game in which your MC could be evil, good or neutral. Would you want the options kind of like:

MC: [You see a trembling body, and on closer inspection, it's a dying woman. You...]

Option 1: [Leave her alone.]
Option 2: [Sadistically dismember her.]
Option 3: [Help the poor woman.]

Obviously those choices are pretty damn obvious (and I'm not saying that for every evil route, one has to sadistically dismember every dying body they come across, that was just an extreme example). Would you prefer it that way? Or is there some 'subtler' approach you would prefer?

TL;DR - how do you like to make your choices in the game? Within dialogue? By actions? Or would you want certain options to be available to you when you raise certain stats?

[Auro-Cyanide]

I prefer subtle. I also like it when decisions are actually a little difficult to make.

For example, in Dragonage I was forced into a decision to sacrifice a child or the child's mother. They were my only choices and one had to be made. That is a tough decision. While it is kind of painful to make, a appreciated that there was some moral impact to the decisions. Making it obvious is kind of boring.

If I am playing as a character I do also appreciate hearing/reading what they think on the matter eg. Them consider the consequences of their choice.

[Aleema]

Well, I do want to know what I'm doing. I want to know for sure I'm going to dismember the woman, rather than choosing "walk closer" and the dismembering suddenly happens, and I had no real control over whether I did something good or bad.

For example, in Dragonage I was forced into a decision to sacrifice a child or the child's mother. They were my only choices and one had to be made. That is a tough decision. While it is kind of painful to make, a appreciated that there was some moral impact to the decisions. Making it obvious is kind of boring.

I don't think that's a matter of obvious/subtle. That's blurring the line of good/evil. The decision was still very obvious, by giving you the options to kill the mother or the child. It wasn't some winding path of decisions that lead to "oh noes the kid is dead." It was still very much "do you kill the kid?"

But I was going to bring this up anyway, so thanks for mentioning it. Whatever you decide, throw in a few impossible questions in you good/evil system. You know, Sophie's Choice. The "no right answer" scenario. Or something that is rooted deeply in your beliefs and isn't just a universal concept of being good or bad. Mass Effect had a lot of these, which shook up the game from the normal "pick the top-most answer for the goody-two-shoes answer, middle for neutral, bottom for pure evil."

[Auro-Cyanide]

For example, in Dragonage I was forced into a decision to sacrifice a child or the child's mother. They were my only choices and one had to be made. That is a tough decision. While it is kind of painful to make, a appreciated that there was some moral impact to the decisions. Making it obvious is kind of boring.

I don't think that's a matter of obvious/subtle. That's blurring the line of good/evil. The decision was still very obvious, by giving you the options to kill the mother or the child. It wasn't some winding path of decisions that lead to "oh noes the kid is dead." It was still very much "do you kill the kid?"

Yeah, I was more talking about difficult decisions rather than subtlety, though it links in a way. It was more from the OP offering a good, bad and neutral decision. I prefer when the choice is not as clear cut, since life rarely has clear cut decision and you can't always foresee the repercussions. When the choices are really obviously you kind of just make them and you know what will happen (I'm always a good two shoes) and the game play becomes repetitive and predictable (I'm looking at you Infamous). One of the better things about Dragonage was the choices where sometimes unclear and sometimes downright evil. It is more fun that way.

[Rina]

Thank you all so much for your insight! Now, um, another question.

How do you want your choices presented to you?

Like, would you prefer to do it by action ('You dismember the woman.') or by dialogue ('What are you doing, CHARNAME?' 'Oh, I'm off to chop that lady into pieces, because I can.')? Or doesn't it matter? Do you have a certain preference?

And would you want your choices presented to you throughout the game, or would you be fine with choosing your alignment/options for the first half of the game, and for your character to sort of become its own character, that way?

For example, let's say you make your character rather evil. Would you be okay with your character remaining evil for the rest of the game and remaining their own character, or would you still want the chance to make a Heel Face Turn (aka, totally changing their minds and becoming redeemed, or at least becoming more 'grey' than 'black')?

And would you want for NPCs and characters to comment on your personality/alignment? Would you want them to give you chances to 'change your ways'? Would you want the option to be corrupted or redeemed?

[Sapphi]

If the game I'm playing wants me to pick between good, neutral, and evil, I think clear-cut choices like the ones you described would be best. If I'm trying to make all "good" choices to get a certain ending and I can't tell the difference between neutral and good because they are more subtle, I don't think that's a good thing (unless it is supposed to be vague for story purposes or something).

Edit: Woah, another set of questions cropped up.

1. I don't think it matters much. I would do what seems right in the style of your visual novel.

2. Personally, I think I like making choices throughout as opposed to "set up and see what happens". I feel more connected to the story if I know I'll be making choices throughout, even if I'm just spamming "Be evil!" at every turn.

3. Personally, if I were playing a visual novel that involved path structure like this, I would be disappointed if my choices didn't affect much in the story. That's the point of choice in visual novels, right? I would definitely want to hear feedback from characters on my decisions (and it would increase replay value if their responses were varied/interesting enough). As for the option of path-jumping, why not? I'd love for my project to have that sort of thing, although I think in the end it would drive me crazy trying to make it all work out. But for a game that has you choose if you want to be good or evil, it would make sense to let you change that decision later in the story, right? Not without some kind of consequence, of course (maybe if you fall in love with a "bad" girl on evil path, and later switch to good path, you become sworn enemies, or she becomes reformed, or something.. idk).

[Auro-Cyanide]

If the game I'm playing wants me to pick between good, neutral, and evil, I think clear-cut choices like the ones you described would be best. If I'm trying to make all "good" choices to get a certain ending and I can't tell the difference between neutral and good because they are more subtle, I don't think that's a good thing (unless it is supposed to be vague for story purposes or something).

But don't you think that is... spoon feeding the reader a bit too much? I mean, I wouldn't expect for the reader to appreciate a curve ball out of no where decision, but I don't think the reader should have everything put on a platter for them either. A game should have a certain degree of difficulty, that is one of the enjoyments of playing it. Getting endings is only a part of the gameplay.


As for the other questions, I like the choice to be offered through inner dialogue followed by the choices, but that is only a preference, I am fine with most ways. The consequences of the decisions should be portrayed however they need to be portrayed to be appropriate. Whether that is actions, dialogue, inner dialogue, sounds, cg, whatever is fine.

I like for the choices to be presented as I play so that I can adjust my character to best suit the situation. While I try to play a 'good' character, sometimes I like to make bad choices to gain certain things, go on a different route and sometimes just to punish someone who has annoyed me ingame.

And yes, I think it would be nice for characters to notice my alignment since it is a nice touch. A lot of hard work though and not really vital so only do it if you want to. It can get a bit annoying though, but I find it annoying in a good way. Getting frustrated at characters disagreeing with you because of your choices added a layer of realism that I found enjoyable, despite me being annoyed. It makes the NPCs seem more like individual characters with preset ideals and personalities rather then just always going with what your character wants.

[Pyonkotchi]

I prefer a subtle approach. plus, Depending on the MC's personality. not all of their decisions should be so obvious.

Not every character is going to have a hard time choosing between killing somone or helping them. Sometimes more subtle options are needed. A character who is naturally kind may be faced with a difficult choice that can change the way they work over time, Perhaps the choices they make and the experiances the have because of it can make the sweet character have a dark ending. or vice-versa, A naturally evil character might have a Heel Face Turn.

Of coarse. having choices like

"A: Eat a sandwich" OR
"B: Eat a Hotdog" would make no sense. Why would choosing a sandwich over a hotdog change the coarse of a story :T

[pondrthis]

I'm not really an RPG player or into the whole "good versus evil" thing, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

I immediately close out a game that presents a "pure evil" possibility. It's just unrealistic. Not one person, barring a sociopath (which would require a great deal of psychological research and devoted character development), would choose to press the button to destroy all the poor people in a city... especially not for zero or minuscule pay. Maybe if you gave an option that was something more like, "become employed as a guy who kidnaps girls for a prostitution ring," as opposed to "await starvation", I would find it believable.

I also absolutely HATE the old "you..." prompt for questions. This person is not me. This person is a character in a story. Still though, I think I'd hate "I..." just as much. Mesh it into dialogue or inner monologue in a better way. For the OP's example...

[She's trembling horribly... she probably won't last much longer.]

Option 1: [I'd best get out of here.]
Option 2: [I ought to put her out of her misery.]
Option 3: [Is there anything I can do?]

Preferably work on option 1 such that the motives to do so are more obvious (or give prior reason for why geeing tee eff oh would be a good idea).

TL;DR: Make the choices as vague as you want, but make the motives for each choice obvious. Don't worry about making the outcome of a choice obvious, people can always load a saved game. (You DID make it possible to save at choices... RIGHT?)

EDIT: Actually, under my TL;DR statement, "Eat a hotdog" vs. "Eat a burger" is a better option than the OP one, because the motives are absolutely clear. I want a character out of a protagonist, not a toy with which to morally play.

[salis]

I prefer games with obvious choices overall, since I’d rather be certain of what path I’m taking than just hoping the option I chose will produce the effect I want. But ideally, I think it’s best to shoot for somewhere in between. Like giving the player options that relate to previously given information in the game to change how the options should be viewed.

Using your example, if the dying woman the MC meets is someone that has been introduced in the game before and has stated earlier that she'd rather be dead, trying to save her, although good in intent, could change into a “bad” choice based on the information given in the game. Whether she just wants to die to not be a burden on anyone anymore or whether she wants to die to be rid of her pain, this information will impact how the player will view each choice and how it will change the MC and the story. Also, depending on whether the MC has a personality or is just a representation of the player will sway the outcome of each decision. In short, making the player think about the choices they're making and analyze the situation rather than having them just click the obvious “good” path, is my preferred way of presenting choices.

As for your other questions, it depends on the style of your game. If your game is written in 1st person, I’d expect the choices to be written in the same manner. And if the character has a personality, then their personality should effect the options. I also think the other characters in the story should comment on the choices you’ve made. I like it when choices can be made throughout the game, but not when you’re almost at the end and you're given the choice to completely change the character from one side to the other. I think allowing the player to ‘change their ways’ should be given in the beginning, but make sure there's a point somewhere of no turning back for the player, and whatever choices made up to that point that have changed the MC can’t be reversed.

Er, but these are just my views. I hope they help.

[Sakura02]

Agreeing with pondrthis

Personally I like very subtle decisions because, I'm pretty sure (I'm just assuming) 80-90% of us on our first play through will stay away from any option which is extremely bad, even during the second play through, to a avoid possibly getting a 'bad' ending. Therefore all the other story paths for the negative choices will be a waste of time because a majority of players will probably stay away from it.
Ideally for my own VNs I don't want every player going through the the same path on the first play through(especially if it's the obviously good path).

I personally don't like the whole Good, evil choices because it seems too straightforward and direct, taking out the excitement in making a decision. I personally would handle this example like this.

MC: [You see a trembling body, and on closer inspection, it's a dying woman. You...]


Option 1: [Hang on I'm going to get help]
(However by leaving her alone you were too late in saving her)- Bad unexpected consequence. (Good intentions but not a wise decision)

Option 2: [Attempt to help her]
(You attempt to help her and she pulls through.)- Good outcome

Option 3: [Examine her carefully]
(You try to determine why she is dying)- Neutral outcome in which something else in the plot is discovered or triggered. Or this option can go either good or bad.

--

TL;DR - how do you like to make your choices in the game? Within dialogue? By actions? Or would you want certain options to be available to you when you raise certain stats?

I personally like a mix. However I would lean slightly more to options by actions, because usually it hints at exploring perhaps a different scene, and it's more of an interaction between the MC and his/her environment.
Certain options available by stats is fun, but should be few and VERY rewarding.

And would you want for NPCs and characters to comment on your personality/alignment? Would you want them to give you chances to 'change your ways'? Would you want the option to be corrupted or redeemed?

Having NPCs react to your decisions is a good idea because it makes the story believable because there is a reaction from the choices.I'm not so sure about the changing the alignment mid-way. UNLESS by changing the alignment mid-way takes you on a different path than if you were to have that changed alignment in the beginning. Changing an alignment mid-way wouldn't make much sense to me if I want to play through the game a second time after getting maybe the good alignment ending

[Lekhaka]

The type of choices that appeals to me is one where one can understand how the outcome was caused by their choice. The degree of subtlety is something that should be adjusted after that primary condition. Having horribly vague choices such as

"Eat a hotdog" vs. "Eat a burger"

affecting plots is just useless, because there is no conceivable relation between food choice and any plot outcome (save for intentional circumstances) for the reader. It may as well be "A" vs "B", and the player just has the chore of clicking a button at random.

The same problem arises if the choices are "spoon-fed", as others have put it. A player will simply be clicking on the button that they have already determined will lead to the "true end", as is most often the case. But here, at least one is still aware of what one is doing.

Thus, this is closer to the ideal:

Option 1: [Hang on I'm going to get help]
(However by leaving her alone you were too late in saving her)- Bad unexpected consequence. (Good intentions but not a wise decision)

Option 2: [Attempt to help her]
(You attempt to help her and she pulls through.)- Good outcome

Option 3: [Examine her carefully]
(You try to determine why she is dying)- Neutral outcome in which something else in the plot is discovered or triggered. Or this option can go either good or bad.

What would make it better would be something that would explain why getting help would be an unwise decision, and vice versa. The example would fail, for example, if it were already mentioned that the character making the choice knows nothing about medicine/surgery which the woman desperately needs, and calling for help would likely bring a doctor. The example would hold if it were mentioned factors that would make it unlikely for a doctor to arrive, and especially if the character was a doctor him/herself.

[pondrthis]

"Eat a hotdog" vs. "Eat a burger"

affecting plots is just useless

It was just an example of my opinion that I don't want options to do something the protagonist has no motivation for doing.

BUT... it COULD make sense. If, for example, it was merely a joke which led into a large subplot where two love interests work at two fiercely competing fast food chains and your decision happens to turn the following comedic scene one way or another.

We aren't talking good/bad ending here, I just feel like there are more examples where "Eat a hotdog" vs. "Eat a burger" is an acceptable choice than there are examples where "save her" vs. "kill her" would be permissible.

[salis]

Based on previous posts, it seems that the manner in which options are presented completely depend on the style and content of the VN and the information given. Certain facts must be presented to the player for them to fully understand the choices and the outcomes, as well as to make the story plausible.
However, I think we all agree that no matter what type of VN it is, or how the options are presented, the choices and the outcomes need to be rational and relate to the story. As painfully obvious as that sounds, many VNs don't keep to that statement.

[Showsni]

"Eat a hotdog" vs. "Eat a burger"

affecting plots is just useless

It was just an example of my opinion that I don't want options to do something the protagonist has no motivation for doing.

BUT... it COULD make sense. If, for example, it was merely a joke which led into a large subplot where two love interests work at two fiercely competing fast food chains and your decision happens to turn the following comedic scene one way or another.

We aren't talking good/bad ending here, I just feel like there are more examples where "Eat a hotdog" vs. "Eat a burger" is an acceptable choice than there are examples where "save her" vs. "kill her" would be permissible.

Or if earlier in the game you'd seen the protagonist buying fresh hamburgers, and mentioning how the sausages in the fridge had been there for weeks - then eating the hotdog gives him food poisoning, and you end up on the dating the cute nurse arc.