Lemma Soft Forums

Perhaps this have been discussed several times in the past, but I want to ask it again anyway...

What do you think about Visual Novels without romance or renai at all, so it's all about friendship and hardship. I mean it's not only without sex scene, but devoid of anything romantic (not even hinting of would be a couple in the future) at all. At best, the relationship is buddy-buddy relationship between best friends/groups.

Personally, I perceive "Visual Novels" in the same way I perceive manga, animation, film, etc. - it's a medium through which one can tell a story. I don't see any reason why a VN can't be used to tell a story that doesn't revolve around romantic relationships.

When I think of non-romantic VNs, I think of the When They Cry series-- yes there technically is romance in them, but they're merely subplots that work within the bigger context of the series which is mainly insane murder mysteries.

But yeah, a VN could work like what Voight-Kampff said, it doesn't have to be romantic.

I think more people need to do that!

I also perceive a VN as medium, so I could make anything with it, as long as my creativity permits. The problem is what people think about it, about a VN without renai.

Several years ago, almost all Hollywood (and western) movie have a "built-in" sex-scene in it, even though there's no need for it (some even completely destroy the feeling/atmosphere it built). Then why did they do that? I think it's just because every other movies did that too...

So what do you personally think about VN without any renai elements? Would you play it? Would you think "Yeah, this is what I've been waiting for... We need more of this kind of VN", or perhaps you think "Well, it's a good VN, but it would be better if only the hero and heroine become a couple...", and so on...

Like, personally, I think FFXII would be better if there is more romantic elements in it. Like Vahn with the Princess or at least with Penelope.

Of course, FF12 seemed to be designed to tease as many pairings as possible without ever making anything clear so that the shippers could squee wildly over their favorites and not have their ships sunk by canon. At least that's the impression I got from watching the cutscenes. Sometimes leaving it to the imagination works!

Lol, what I have beef with is why VN has to be Ren'ai or heavily associated with it? Why does it have to BxG or GxB or GxG or BxB? Why my games that has no romance has to be labeled as one? VN is such a broad media and it's us who made it seemed so limited. =___=

I think a VN should contain everything that's needed for that particular VN's story and/or experience. Attempting to shoehorn in romance, or anything, really, where it doesn't belong will only serve to bring down the rest of the VN. The only people you'd be losing out on if you didn't have romance are people who would be better off playing/reading/watching something that's tailored towards romance, since it would get the proper attention there.

Now, personally, I would love to see something about friendship. I feel it usually gets shafted as being the "bad end" in most VN. Your only friends are that one annoying friend you don't really like, and any of the girls/guys you didn't "win". It'd be nice to see a bit of platonic love every now and then.

Like everyone mention in one way or another, VN is just a another form of medium. It is an interactive story book with pictures in it. However it is not uncommon to see a little bit of Renai (love) in it.

About a good 80% of all movies/books have the protagonist fall in love with someone at some point of the story. Do you know why? I don't, but my theory is that it's easier to make the protagonist seem more human by showing their "soft" side through love. No matter how tough, strong, bi*chy, cruel, the character is; when you show that they are capable of loving someone it becomes easier to relate with them. Love is a subject that people are familiar with, so becomes common in a VN but not necessary as long as you can make a good protagonist that people can relate to.

...I pretty much work exclusively on non-renai VNs, so yeah >_> I like writing friendship-centric stories, actually.

I have no problems with it. I believe a majority of the stuff I've released have never been specifically ren'ai.

LVUER wrote:Several years ago, almost all Hollywood (and western) movie have a "built-in" sex-scene in it, even though there's no need for it (some even completely destroy the feeling/atmosphere it built). Then why did they do that? I think it's just because every other movies did that too...

So what do you personally think about VN without any renai elements? Would you play it? Would you think "Yeah, this is what I've been waiting for... We need more of this kind of VN", or perhaps you think "Well, it's a good VN, but it would be better if only the hero and heroine become a couple...", and so on...

Well, as far as the sex scenes go, let's put it this way: if a VN really becomes popular (in Japan), it gets a PS2 port. That inherently means that said VN will be stripped of any and all sex scenes. So in that regard, the most popular titles DON'T include sex.

As for the Ren'ai element in general?

I won't claim to know the VN industry backwards and forwards. But as far as I can tell, it seems like only Type-Moon and Nitro+ have ever met with much success in the area of non-ren'ai VNs. Yes, said companies games did have relationships between men and women. But they certainly didn't revolve around the tired, insipid, cliché high school / junior high "romance" that is repeated ad nauseum in typical ren'ai games. And for that, I am endlessly thankful.

If you don't advertise your game as a romance, then no one's really going to be disappointed. If we played your game, then we liked the premise and promise of story. A story is a story.

About a good 80% of all movies/books have the protagonist fall in love with someone at some point of the story. Do you know why? I don't, but my theory is that it's easier to make the protagonist seem more human by showing their "soft" side through love. No matter how tough, strong, bi*chy, cruel, the character is; when you show that they are capable of loving someone it becomes easier to relate with them. Love is a subject that people are familiar with, so becomes common in a VN but not necessary as long as you can make a good protagonist that people can relate to.

Well, yes. Love humanizes people. We are familiar with humans. :3 And love is psychologically going to occur more often after being in a conflict with someone, which is what stories revolve around (conflict). What kind of love depends on sexual attraction. Buddy cop films are very much love for each other after defeating the terrorists, you really don't want to see your partner in harm's way, protect them, etc. is the same as the prince and damsel in distress, just with less kissing. ^^ Hell, Tom Hanks was in love with a volleyball at the end of Cast Away, because they suffered the conflict together. Inanimate object aside.

The cookie-cutter sex scene, however, is purely formulaic, the writer's sexual frustration, or simply marketing.

I'm making a one right now.

I made one already. And it got a remake too!

I'm more towards creating a story that has personable characters that you, as the player/reader, can see yourself being friends with. Anything beyond that; relations between characters, between you playing as the main character with another love interest, and so on; is like icing on the cake in my opinion. Anyways, I lied. There are ren'ai elements to GSK but only if the player continues the story themselves after the game ends.