Ethnicities in VNs : A Question! :O

[James]

1. Are there ethnicities that you'd like to see more often?

Not really, some people put rainbow hair colored people just to create people that are ethnicity-free so they can avoid all labels and stereotype the comes with the ethnicity. In the end, it all depends on story.

If having a different ethnicity plays an important part in the story, then yeah I'm all for it. If the character has a different ethnicity just as a way be being different, then no. I'd rather have a usual set of people and have the writer work on their personality.

Captain planet is a good example. They have 1 characters from each area of the world to bring multi-ethnic groups. And made the superhero a green haired, blue skinned, weirdo in red tights.

If captain planet was a white skinned/dark haired/blue eyed person like super man, how would people's opinion change?

2. Do you think that it's possible to keep to a non-stereotypical personality without the character losing their 'heritage' in a way? xD

Kind of hard, in media. People are have some kind of expectation to different ethnic groups. Indeed you can create a character with a off-norm mixture of personality/heritage, but you'll have to work extra hard to make it work and believable to the audience.

[papillon]

People are have some kind of expectation to different ethnic groups. Indeed you can create a character with a off-norm mixture of personality/heritage, but you'll have to work extra hard to make it work and believable to the audience.

... That seems a depressing way to think, if you really feel the whole world is that prejudiced that it would be super-difficult to make anyone believe anything other than a stereotype.

[James]

... That seems a depressing way to think, if you really feel the whole world is that prejudiced that it would be super-difficult to make anyone believe anything other than a stereotype.

It's just my honest opinion, people in nature are a stubborn lots who like to judge ethnics groups base on their past experience. My grandma got rob once by an dark skin person, even now when I bring my dark skin friend over it puts her on the edge. She tries to be nice to my friend, but you can tell something is off.

Like I said before "Kind of Hard", but not impossible. If you can make one that works, that would be super great!

[LVUER]

The third entry of sentai series and the first entry of super sentai series (the previous two was called sentai, not super sentai), Battle Fever J, is pretty popular (or wildly popular for a tokusatsu/Japan live action film) locally and internationally. The reason is that they have all race in that sentai (instead of all Japanese like in the usual sentai series).

They are Battle Japan, Battle France, Battle Cossack (Soviet Union), Battle Kenya and Miss America (United States). And they are very colorful ^_^

This format is also faithfully followed by Power Ranger series (super sentai adaptation in US, by Saban). Power Ranger series always featured (sorry if I'm rude, I just don't know how to say it properly since I'm not really good with English) one white skin American male, one black skin American male, one Asian male, one white skin American female, and one black skin American female. If there's additional member (the sixth member), it's usually non-human character or another white skin American male.

Apparently, people are more comfortable if the cast of protagonist party consists of variety of race/ethnicity.

[kinougames]

It should be mentioned that "American" and "Australian" aren't ethnicities, they're nationalities. Your ethnic makeup doesn't have to do anything with being American or Australian.

People of ethnicities that normally have clear cut brown skin. Pale skinned characters are wildly rampant and even if they don't have a 100% obvious ethnicity, brown skin in general is nice. Doing them without making them obviously any ethnicity also allows you to not have to worry about doing it wrong.

[SusanTheCat]

@ Aleema: Ohh, yes, I am keeping RockRobin in my "I can't wait to play" lists! xD It's true that there aren't really many VNs set in America. :O One of the ones I want to make later would be set in Canada. x3

Camp Renard is unofficially set in Ontario, Canada. (near Ottawa!) Mind you, I don't think the other writers know this.

Susan

[LondonIvy]

I'd like to see fewer white people, honestly. Seeing caucasion character designs all the time gets boring after a while. Even Japanese character desings look less Japanese than white. More black and hispanic people. I suppose the lack of ethnicities in VN's from Japan has to do with the fact Japan's not exactly a diverse country. I'm always amused how when foreigners do show up in Japanese media they're usually white or half-Japanese/half-white inevitably. HOWEVER, diverse countries like the Americas and those in Europe really have no excuse other than authors not thinking about it.

@papillon: I always appreciated Janet. Did I mention that Date Warp is my favorite VN from you?

@James: I think that's a pretty extreme example. Most people aren't bringing those sorts of experiences (of being robbed) to the table. It may be true in some cases but not all. Typically if the author doesn't make a big deal about race, then the reader won't.

[musical74]

Check out Garden Society Kykuit for different races/enthencities... You have Elena, who's Spanish (and occasional talks in Spanish)...Nadine, who's black...it CAN be done, it's just so many people are used to *generic* type...

I'd LOVE to see a VN where the main chacater is German or Finnish or something like that!

[Auro-Cyanide]

It should be mentioned that "American" and "Australian" aren't ethnicities, they're nationalities. Your ethnic makeup doesn't have to do anything with being American or Australian.

Awww, I can't have an Australian ethnicity? What ethnicity do I have then? Poor generational Australians, we don't get much labelling. Or culture. Or historical background. Or much of anything.

1. Are there ethnicities that you'd like to see more often?
Doesn't bother me. I'm Australian, I am surrounded by different ethnicities every day. It is a normal thing to me. I don't really notice their inclusion or exclusion most of the time unless attention is drawn to it. I don't want anyone to feel they HAVE to include other groups, that is silly. It should be a natural part of the story. It all really depends on where the story is set. If it is America, I would expect to see a number of ethnicities (some American shows, especially aftrican american ones swing the other way and have no Caucasian people). However if your story is set somewhere where there hasn't been a great deal of cross pollination, then it wouldn't be unusual to have one race.

There is also a theory about how simplified cartoon features allow for a greater amount of people relating to the characters. Because details are removed, you also remove parts of the characters identity and you tend to fill them in with your own background. I have always seen most manga characters as white. I assume that asian people see them as asian. Humans are very good at picking up patterns we relate too. The most ambiguous swirls can seem like human faces and bodies to us.

2. Do you think that it's possible to keep to a non-stereotypical personality without the character losing their 'heritage' in a way? xD
Yeah sure. As long as you design them as a person then it shouldn't be a problem. They can have stereotypical features (most stereotypes don't pop out of no where) but they should appear as a whole person and their actions and personality should make sense. Stereotypes can sometimes be useful in helping people to understand certain things if they are used in the correct way and you are careful not to cause offence.

[LondonIvy]

There is also a theory about how simplified cartoon features allow for a greater amount of people relating to the characters. Because details are removed, you also remove parts of the characters identity and you tend to fill them in with your own background. I have always seen most manga characters as white. I assume that asian people see them as asian. Humans are very good at picking up patterns we relate too. The most ambiguous swirls can seem like human faces and bodies to us.

That's a good point, actually. I had always assumed that manga/anime character designs looked more white, but this COULD be because I'm bringing my own assumptions to the table. Then again, it doesn't exactly help that manga/anime characters tend to have traits I don't THINK are possible for actual Asian people (like blonde hair and blue eyes). Then again, they can also have green hair and the odd coloring is just there to diversify the designs, so perhaps this is a moot point. Hmm. Still, the confusion is understandable.

It would be nice to see more black people in anime in general just for the sake of it. When black people do show up they tend to be pretty gross stereotypes. I always liked that Bleach had a decently diverse cast (or at least they weren't all colored lily white).

[Deji]

I guess it depends where you come from and what you're familiar with.
Maybe Americans are used to see lots of people from different cultures/ethnicities in their daily lives, so they expect some cultural/ethnicity diversity in the stories they read/watch.

I'm not really used to see much difference over here (except the gradient from indigenous-to-latin/hispanic-to-european), to be honest, so it's very likely I won't include much diversity (if at all) in my own work. Also, in my country, public people are usually very european-ish looking (they're considered to be prettier and more desirable than the average boring brown-ish skinned/haired/eyed person, and also they usually come from higher social classes, having access to better education, leading them to better positions, etc...), so it's just expected that, unless you're doing a piece that touches social issues, you use fair-ish skinned/haired/eyed people.

The common 'different' person here is the occasional (blonde) german-looking person, and you instantly assume they have to come from the southern part of the country. I've known a few myself.
We also have peruvian/bolivian immigrants, but those are usually limited to certain parts of the city and being housemaids; I've seen them downtown and I had a classmate that her parents were peruvian, but that's it.

Anything else is a rare sight, that you assume are either tourists or wonder how they hell did they end living in a country like this (and shower them with that sort of questions if you have the chance).

[papillon]

Also, in my country, public people are usually very european-ish looking (they're considered to be prettier and more desirable than the average boring brown-ish skinned/haired/eyed person, and also they usually come from higher social classes, having access to better education, leading them to better positions, etc...), so it's just expected that, unless you're doing a piece that touches social issues, you use fair-ish skinned/haired/eyed people.

Of course, for those who view media from a political perspective, that's exactly why it's desirable to include darker people in high-class positions in stories, to try and challenge those perceptions and their effect on society. However, it would be silly to expect every game developer and artist to be a social crusader.

[Deji]

Of course, for those who view media from a political perspective, that's exactly why it's desirable to include darker people in high-class positions in stories, to try and challenge those perceptions and their effect on society. However, it would be silly to expect every game developer and artist to be a social crusader.

I'm definitely not one xD;
Also, usually pieces that deal with social issues here are traditionally very Naturalist, and.. ugh, I hate that kind of stuff and I run away from them like the plague.
Though just thinking of having, idk, a President that is of native descendant with a native last name, would be fun for a fiction piece Too bad I'm a shallow human being that hates politics xD;

[LondonIvy]

There's NOTHING eviiiil about NOT drawing more types of ethinicities, although it could limit an artist's artwork a bit. I'm generally for artists stretching their limits. Your art is so beautiful and part of the reasons I got into VN's in the first place, Deji, but I think it would be interesting if you tried to draw someone who looks a little different than what you normally draw. I think you could do it very well. If you have already and I just never noticed, then pardon me. XD

I don't necessarily agree that including ethnicities besides the lily-white has to be a political thing, like it seems is being implied. Sometimes it's just a common sense thing. Not everyone is white (or Japanese...) and art reflects life. Besides, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to leave out so many people in art just because the artist thinks it might be political or trying "to make a statement". You're not necessarily being political by including, say, a hispanic or Indian person in your VN (Papillon did it in Date Warp) unless the author MAKES it political. It's just another part of the character like everything else, and it all depends on how it's handled. There will always be that one person who goes "Wait a second! Character X isn't X ethinicity! I don't like it", but that's the sort of thing to be ignored, not catered to.

Maybe I'm just approaching this from a wide-eyed, naive American viewpoint where, yes, there's racism and such but we like to ignore or hide it. I'd like to think not, though.

Pardon me if I misinterpreted anyone's words, but that's the general feel I'm getting from the discussion.

[YonYonYon]

I never thought about ethinicities o__O