Original Visual Novel Festival

[Miss-Mae]

I was actually thinking they should do different categories as well. At this rate, my game wont be enterable either... maybe if it's asked of by enough people? :s

[James]

I myself just want to get exposure and feedback from a larger group of people.
In fact, I'm guessing that's probably what a lot of you guys are really after (maybe a few of you are after the unknown donated prize).

You guys could always modify a short demo from the original with the mini games/RPG element cut out.
Then you will get the story and art exposure, the name of your game will be known to more people, and you'll be within the rules.
If the people are interested in your game they'll find someway to follow your progress and download the full version sooner or later.

[Alera]

I had the same idea as @James , but I was still wondering if it will fit the rules. I was going to ask the group organization, but I'm seriously busy with other stuff right now. OTL

But the suggestion with different categories is pretty nice too! ^^ I would support it!!!

[kinougames]

>_> Boo. Can't enter with PPBB.

Can you not make two contests, one for game play heavy games and one for kinetic games?

[Greeny]

The rules are simply too strict.

[sake-bento]

I think it's a good first go, though. It encourages people to start small, and I think the point is to get more people involved in VN making at a beginner's level. The idea of a fighting game, mini-games, a sim portion, or anything that fancy is a bit daunting for a beginner, and honestly I wouldn't even bother to enter my little VN if I saw that Magical Diary or Rock Robin was in the running. Of course, it means that I can't enter pretty much any of the things I'm working on, but if you think of it as a celebration of "pure" VNs, then that's fine. I'm sure there will be more in the future. Maybe they'll have something for sim games next or something.

[Aleema]

I think it's a good first go, though. It encourages people to start small, and I think the point is to get more people involved in VN making at a beginner's level. The idea of a fighting game, mini-games, a sim portion, or anything that fancy is a bit daunting for a beginner, and honestly I wouldn't even bother to enter my little VN if I saw that Magical Diary or Rock Robin was in the running. Of course, it means that I can't enter pretty much any of the things I'm working on, but if you think of it as a celebration of "pure" VNs, then that's fine. I'm sure there will be more in the future. Maybe they'll have something for sim games next or something.

Oh sake, stop making excuses, their rules are simply too strict. =P They'll only play one route/playthrough, even if that route is ten minutes, they don't allow dating sims, which are frankly almost as synonymous as visual novels. And then they penalize a game from being too fun. =P

And I don't believe their goal is to encourage the creation of new games. To quote them:

Lately we've noticed a lot of submissions related to WIPs of original VNs. We are very happy to see that so many awesome games are in the progress of development, and we thought it would be a good idea to give you guys a little push in your game-making process.

They really say nothing about stimulating a non-developing community to develop.

I think the point is to get critique on your VN, and also, to compete. (As supported by the rest of their post.) I think seeing (ugh why'd you have to use my game) Magical Diary or RockRobin would encourage more competitiveness, and therefore more quality among entries. OR NOT. Considering for this to happen they would have to: A) have to show all the entries they received with links to downloading them before the deadline and you have played them all, and B) allow judging the game on something other than art or story. They could easily fix any discouraging by what we've been suggesting: different categories. Kinetic games, pure VNs, dating sims, and a free-for-all category. And if a game is good then it should win. If you want to help "underdogs" then judge games on things that underdogs can be as good or better at no matter their resources: writing. And since when did quality performances ever happen with no competition? Instead of promoting a stream of unfinished, butchered, beginner's projects, wouldn't you rather see me duke it out with Papillon TO THE DEATH? Kidding. But removing the competitiveness from a contest isn't how a contest should work.

They'll likely not have a different VN contest, since this one took "months of planning and debate!" and is tagged 2011 meaning they'll do it annually. Likely with the same rules. So it sucks to be told "you don't count." Especially because I did my best to make it a good game. Not to say that any one game is less a VN than the next, or that people can't make any VN they damn please (I'm happy for any VN to make it passed the finish line), but this is turning into the special olympics if it's about "fairness". It's a damn contest, sheesh. I would have accepted an "apples to oranges" argument, but so far it's just been "big scary project makes me sad."

The only type of a game I would personally dislike being included are high budget games, because they obviously will have good art (so it will be more a competition of who had the most money to spend). However. They could easily make a non-commercial games only clause, or make it a separate category, and I personally would love to compete with those games.

I could talk about this for hours, so I'll stop.

[sake-bento]

I'm mostly just trying to understand why they made that decision, rather than make an excuse as to why they did that one thing and now no one can enter boo. : ( Because really, I can't enter, either, and that makes me sad. >.> Also, I feel like some of these comments are leaning more towards outright complaining rather than a thoughtful criticism on the way this festival is being run, so I'm being the other end of the spectrum and showing that I'm grateful for the work this team IS doing, even if it's a flawed first effort.

And I used your game as an example, because it's the sort of thing that really would make me feel intimidated about entering. D:

[Aleema]

Because no one is ever allowed to complain. =P Not ungrateful for their work (no one is, I wouldn't assume that of anyone), but disappointed that I and others are excluded from the benefits of what they're offering. They can keep their "prizes", I want reviews, and some want exposure.

And I used your game as an example, because it's the sort of thing that really would make me feel intimidated about entering. D:

Likewise with your games. I can't have CGs or have the amazing Deji, or have the authentic Japanese quality your games have. So really, a critical and competitive eye might help your game more than hurt it. I can be one-upped very easily. On personality, for one. =P You're way nicer than me. *kicks a kitten*

[LVUER]

Duh, really... If you don't like their competition, then don't participate and shut your trap. Simple. This is their competition so it's up to them to make the rules. You can complain but you don't have right to say things either, you don't know them. Have you ask them why they do that, btw? Since I believe they have their own reasons.

[Aleema]

Duh, really... If you don't like their competition, then don't participate and shut your trap. Simple. This is their competition so it's up to them to make the rules. You can complain but you don't have right to say things either, you don't know them. Have you ask them why they do that, btw? Since I believe they have their own reasons.

That was pretty rude. "Shut your trap?" We can complain but we "don't have the right say things"? WTF does that mean? No one was making personal attacks. I don't have to "know them." But I get an idea of who they are. tooaya, the one who posted the contest, is Re:Alistair's artist. Not like, some company executive of Visual Novel Inc. It's a fan contest for fans; their word isn't infallible. That doesn't mean I don't respect them.

It's not a matter of if I like it or not ... I cannot enter the competition. It's not even a choice. Saying "if you don't like it then don't enter" means nothing because I don't like it because I can't enter.

Yes, I have sent them a private message. Last I heard, tooaya said:

I see people are talking about the gameplay aspect of VNs.
I'll talk to the other staffs and see what they think.

If they decide they like it how they have it, then fine. I figured they were unaware the effect of their rules, but if they have a look at it critically and still decide to keep the rule, then that's their prerogative. I really don't need their contest to know the worth of my games, but it sounded like a fun experience for the community. I will still encourage others to enter, etc.

[coute]

That's like saying you can't enter a handicap competition because you're able-bodied. Either break a leg (create a typical VN) or go away.

[sake-bento]

Whoa...okay. I know there are mixed feelings about this decision, but please do keep the conversation civil.

[papillon]

Instead of promoting a stream of unfinished, butchered, beginner's projects, wouldn't you rather see me duke it out with Papillon TO THE DEATH?

*runs and hides* Mommy! Aleema's PICKING ON ME again!!!

I think the restrictions are fine. They showcase a very particular subset of games rather than all games, and that's FINE. EVERY competition tends to do that to some extent and it's often better to have it explicitly in the rules than to enter your game which is completely not what the competition is looking for and then feel hurt that it failed to get the attention you thought it deserved.

Before joining this community I came from the interactive fiction world, which for years and years has run a yearly competition which has both written and unwritten criteria. The written criteria encourage a certain consistency in the entries that makes it easier to judge them against each other and gives a certain amount of context to the winning. (The WRITTEN rules suggest games of a certain length and difficulty, and require free games. The unwritten rules include things like if you enter a game with your own homebrew parser that can only understand VERB NOUN, you're going to get a crap score. That didn't stop people from entering them year after year though. I entered a graphical adventure game just for the hell of it and expected exactly the reaction I got. It didn't make it a terrible game, but it was blatantly wrong for that comp and I knew it.)

As the years went by some people expressed dismay that almost teh entire creative output of the community was focused into this one competition and this one particular set of rules, and huge amounts of 'alternative' competitions sprang up. Most of which crashed and burned through lack of interest or through people being spread too widely. Only one or two managed to survive, and they started with <5 competitors in them, unlike the 200 in the main comp, but they eventually managed to present some alternative angles for recognition. But for a while there it was chaos and you had, like, one comp per game! That doesn't exactly help recognise anything.

I do not want MD to be judged against a bunch of short newbie projects. For one, people would probably think I was being mean and picking on their games. For another, I don't think a bunch of fans getting together have TIME to play MD thoroughly enough to give it a proper judging. I've been an competition judge and watched others doing it and doing a good job of being a judge is not as easy as it sounds. A lot of people, faced with the need to make decisions, will take shortcuts. There are professional game competitions, which will judge the games without even playing them!! Others work mostly by having a lot of judges and assigning them each only a few games, but even then you get people putting it off until the last minute, voting for things they've already heard of, and generally doing a half-assed job. (No, not me, but I've seen it.) Focusing on short simple games will make it much easier to evaluate things.

This little competition is not the place for long drawn-out duels for Best Game Ever. Let it be what it is.

[Aleema]

It's okay! It's their contest, I'm not trying to commandeer it. Honestly. I just really like to explain myself thoroughly. I like to debate. I do disagree with coute who has graced us after lurking for 3 years to say something negative, but that's okay. I'm not writhing in pain from how I can't join a dA contest, and I likely won't even if the rules changed, since people have specifically expressed that they don't want me to. Contests really aren't a good idea in the long run, if I really think about it. It's like making a contest for the best song of the year, but all different kinds of genres can enter. It's really subjective, isn't it? I wouldn't want to see ANY one game crowned as "best VN", even if it were me. I was more interested in ... the festival aspect of it. Exposure to a new audience and reviews/workshopping from those people. A celebration of VNs, if you will.

Interesting story, Papillon. I'll let it be!