suggestions for Bionic Heart 2

[jack_norton]

Today I got the first sketches for the new art-style of the sequel of my game Bionic Heart:

I am not sure though what gameplay style I should use. I would like to avoid doing a pure VN again, since VNs outside the female world simply don't sell at all. I was thinking if to try a first person adventure, or perhaps mix it with a light RPG gameplay since people loved Planet Stronghold (but this time would really be light RPG!). So if you have any suggestions, I'm listening (also from girls, assuming any of them is vaguely interested in a sci-fi story).

[luminarious]

I suggest a platformer. It accommodates splendidly the occasional trip to an alien world (think Half-Life 1, where Gordon occasionally stumbles into the Xen dimension) and it also incorporates the RPG elements easily.

[jack_norton]

Haha no, no way - platformers have insane costs (animations, tiles, sprites, etc). Beside I wouldn't be able to code that in renpy for sure

[usul]

I like the art for the most part. Although the girl's hands are clenched tighly for no apparent reason.

I personally think the games are fun when the characters are interesting. Since this is a sci-fi game that focuses a around a cyborg, I would read a lot of Phillip K. Dick's work. It's truly inspirational.

The graphics in the first game looked good. That's what got me interested in playing it in the first place. I would make sure the second is even better.

I liked the concept of the first BH, but I felt unsure about what to do in the appartment in the begining. You want to make sure the player isn't left guessing as to what he should do. I don't think VNs work well when it comes to 'moving freely around'. There can be a certain element of that, but I think the choices should be more story driven than exploring the appartment (that kind of exploration works best in 3d games, VNs are all about characters and story IMHO).

[jack_norton]

Heh well I am really confused about the gameplay - I mean you're probably right, however I've read about everything recently about gameplay in games, including mine:
- people interested in Planet Stronghold plot that have seen the battles like "obstacles" to read more of it!
- on the opposite, people that think battles on PS are very well done, much better than the plot

I know that different people have different tastes, but is being quite hard for gamedevs to guess what "most" people really want perhaps the only rational solution to make everybody happy is to have the option to play as you want: "VN mode" = no freedom of movement, just read the story. "Adventure mode" = lots more interactions and puzzles

[usul]

I think battles can work well in VNs.

Personally I think that if you try to please everybody, you end up pleasing nobody. You should really focus on what you think is fun and what inspires YOU. From experience I can tell you that if you ask everybody what they want and you give it to them, they can still be disappointed, whereas if you surprise them with something new and original that is fun because you had fun making it, that has more of a chance to catch on.

[luminarious]

I don't know.. I was thinking about it the other day. The list of game-like things you can manage with Ren'py is not very high; it's definitely not a general-purpose 2D game engine. When you tick off the obvious - visual novels, kinetic novels and sims, all of which may involve puzzles - there isn't much left.

It's possible to either play around with these, subverting or lampshading the obvious and less-so tropes involved, or switch engines. As I'm interested in Android development myself, I find myself wishing for a more robust engine that would involve both story-telling parts and RPG and platformer parts. Basically, like RPG maker et al; a game-component buffet. All based on my unified game theory - that all games are just emanations. Using vector graphics that are rendered to OpenGL textures at runtime to save diskspace and enable true resolution-independance. Written in Rebol (I love the syntax and the succinctness of it), or perhaps its promising, OpenGL-enabled derivative Boron.

Alas, I am not a programmer, nor have I yet managed to inspire others to work with me on this goal. All I can do is play around with these ideas, analysing games and learning from the works of others. And even with all that knowledge, I feel I do not know yet enough to give you any recommendations regarding Bionic Hearts 2 and it's gameplay. It's quite sad really..

[usul]

I think that focusing on the limits of the engine is a cop-out. Books only contain text and yet the possibilities for storytelling are endless. Add to that interactive pictures, choices and programming, I think there is a vast array of games that can be made. The strength of Ren'PY IMHO is that it helps you create games that are really simple to play. I think that if you keep it simple and engaging, that you can please a lot of players. I think the future of these types of games will be on Android devices, giving the player a quick and simple form of entertainment.

[jack_norton]

Personally I think that if you try to please everybody, you end up pleasing nobody. You should really focus on what you think is fun and what inspires YOU. From experience I can tell you that if you ask everybody what they want and you give it to them, they can still be disappointed, whereas if you surprise them with something new and original that is fun because you had fun making it, that has more of a chance to catch on.

I'm mainly inspired by the recent success of a sci-fi adventure game, Gemini Rue. Haven't had time to play it, but I was thinking that perhaps was better to use the adventure gameplay for BH2, first person view, since I have already used the sci-fi+battles on Planet Stronghold and want something new. However that requires lot of resources and also adventure games are notoriously short, even if people shouldn't complain about that - even AAA ones with a walkthrough lasts a few hours at maximum.

[jack_norton]

I think the future of these types of games will be on Android devices, giving the player a quick and simple form of entertainment.

Don't know in 3-4 years but right now, sales data says that's really the opposite VN+mobile devices = big fail

[usul]

Isn't there a market for short games though? I mean I have Starcraft II and the two latest Fallout games on my computer and I NEVER play them because they would take up too much of my time. I enjoy a short game every once in a while. I say market that as a GOOD thing and not as a drawback. I don't think you're competing directly with those huge game titles, I think the clientele is looking for something different than what's already out there. What seems RARE to me is a good story.

[jack_norton]

Heh I find myself UNABLE to make short games! Every time I started saying "this one will be short", I end up making a full featured RPG with 50h+ of gameplay but you're right I should try that one day.

[papillon]

The list of game-like things you can manage with Ren'py is not very high; it's definitely not a general-purpose 2D game engine. When you tick off the obvious - visual novels, kinetic novels and sims, all of which may involve puzzles - there isn't much left.

Use the pygame bits. Voila, general-purpose 2d game engine, with RenPy around the edges for managing your text.

[jack_norton]

Well I made Planet Stronghold just using the new screen language and standard Renpy commands and I'm surely not a great coder, so...
With the new Sprite class, I think a good coder CAN surely do a platform in Renpy, just not ME !!

[pondrthis]

Voila, general-purpose 2d game engine, with RenPy around the edges for managing your text.

Totally off-topic.

I think that's the first time in like two months that I've seen the word "voila" spelled correctly rather than "viola", as in the musical instrument.