Dramatic cliches

[OokamiKasumi]

Would you say a Hopeless Suitor is decent for a start until he finally realises?

Definitely, but you might want to add a few more twists to the plot to make it interesting. Such as, when finally realizes that she really Does like him, she's already given up on him, which forces him to actively pursue her. You can add more pressure by having everyone around him trying to help him 'recover from his broken heart' by pushing him into going after some other girl that actually has no interest in him. (Abandoning him at clubs and restaurants with only this girl for company.) Then twist it again by having the girl being shoved at him decide to help him get his girl, just to get everyone off her back, so she can pursue who she really likes. However this could easily backfire by making everyone around them think this other girl really Does love him.

Do you see what I mean about going in the Unexpected direction?

[Friendbot2000]

Terminal illnesses are so overdone in various creative outlets. One thing I like to do is to depict what I call "terminal injuries". In my opinion injuries from car accidents and other assorted physical hurts can spawn countless character development opportunities. For instance an athlete father that gets in a car accident and he can no longer continue his career and dreams so he pushes his child to take part in athletics so he can live vicariously through him and strains their relationship because of it. You can do so much with injuries, but with terminal illnesses all you can do is "prepare for death" blah blah blah don't care.

As for amnesia...I don't mind it as long as it is done well. One VN I really like was about a single mother getting early onset dementia and the struggles that her children faced in dealing with it. While it isn't necessarily the typical "amnesia" we all know. It is still related and interesting. Anyone that has elderly grandparents knows how painful it is to see their mind slip, making the story really relatable.

Ultimately it all comes down to how you tell the story. If you do it well then the cliche becomes an original idea, but if you stick to a formula then all you will get is bland results.

[musical74]

The biggest *not this AGAIN!* for me would be these...

1) new place/starting over - it's done a LOT. Sometimes it can be pulled off well, but unless it's someone I know or it seems to be *we are going to spin this in a way you aren't expecting*...PASS

2) amnesia - done waaaaaaaaaay too much, and unless the result of the story brings out a very big surprise (for example, finding out you are half-esper) I'll pass on it

3) the childhood friend - is there some sort of law that this character exist? seems too be waaaay too common

You could mix these up and it would be good, but it always seems to be these elements that cause me to think *PASS*

[Hollow Gourd]

For instance an athlete father that gets in a car accident and he can no longer continue his career and dreams so he pushes his child to take part in athletics so he can live vicariously through him and strains their relationship because of it.

In my opinion, this has also been done to death. Specifically in American movies and T.V. shows, though.
Well, to be even more specific, it's usually that the father didn't do so well when he was younger, so he basically forces his child to do everything he wishes he'd done. While the injury does not factor in, the basic premise is the same so I would most likely pass on something like this.

[Pyonkotchi]

for me

Amnesia - [hypocrite] But it really IS overdone, and it usually means the character remembers he's THE GREATEST SWORDSMAN/MAGICAL BEING/CACTUS EVAR half way through the game. I guess its a way to make the character have a story butttt... if youre gonna add amnesia make sure you have good justifications, and don't make it so... Simple and predictable :< [/hypocrite] :>

Childhood friends - I haven;t much problem with childhood buddies, sweet you;ve been friends forever. but it s weird when two people of opposite genders have been "best friends since birth",
I can imagine them KNOWING eachother, maybe the boy used to tease her or somthing. but best friends? ehhhh
most kids hang out with people the same gender when they're young. If the opposite, then either the boy has girlish hobbies or the girl is a tomboy. then don't get me started on the romance. You can fall in love with your childhood buddy, and blah blah even then its difficult to get out of the friend-zone :<

Forgotten Childhood buddies - LETS MIX THEM BOTH OF MAXIMUM DAMAGE. when I play VNs or Date-Sims and the protagonist moves to a "new" town and "meets" a new person. OH MY GOD BUT WAIT. THAT PERSON IS YOUR OLD CHILDHOOD BFFL THAT YOU FORGOT ABOUT AND AFTER ALL THIS DRAMA YOU GUYS WILL GOING TO FALL IN LOVE 8DD
guess you're not such a great friend huh? :<

Deep, traumatic pasts - oh god words can't describe how much they irritate me. Because they're hardly ever pulled off, and generally are used as an excuse to make me feel bad for that character >:C

thats all I can think of right now :>

[VenusEclipse]

If they're executed well, I don't even care that it takes place in high school, or use cliches. There are times I want to watch a movie that has such a great description, stands out from the rest but it wasn't done well. Then there are simple ones that suck me right in.

[Elenakiara]

Uhhh, this isn't really being on topic anymore. So here is another cliche: teleporting a normal person into another world/time period, and then that person becomes their savior.

Haha... xDD I'm trying not to stray too close to that with my story! xDD

But as for this topic, I do get annoyed at when someone uses an obvious sad technique just to make us sad... But all of it can be done, as long as it doesn't seem forced in my opinion... For example, a story where everything's fine and normal, but then bam, a character gets into such an extraordinary accident that just doesn't seem likely given the circumstances and starts dieing oh-so slowly... >.<

[Friendbot2000]

For instance an athlete father that gets in a car accident and he can no longer continue his career and dreams so he pushes his child to take part in athletics so he can live vicariously through him and strains their relationship because of it.

In my opinion, this has also been done to death. Specifically in American movies and T.V. shows, though.
Well, to be even more specific, it's usually that the father didn't do so well when he was younger, so he basically forces his child to do everything he wishes he'd done. While the injury does not factor in, the basic premise is the same so I would most likely pass on something like this.

True, it is done a lot in American TV and movies, but very rarely is it done in the video game/VN format. Just using a different medium can make something not cliche if it is done well.

[SmileyFace]

To be honest I don't really mind if there is a dramatic cliche in a story as long as it is presented well. :3

But some cliches that are used a lot are:

- Childhood friends from the opposite gender...
...and then you find out he/she has been in love with you since you guys were little or suddenly the both of you fall in love... for some reason.

- School Setting
There are A LOT of visual novels based in a school setting.
(well, it is sorta understandable since we can relate to it. Afterall I think everyone here has been to school before.)

- Sudden Death/Illness
Oh, noes. Suddenly your beloved protagonist/destined one/sister/teacher/cat has died or has been diagnosed with an illness just because...
...Just because the creator of the game can.

- Generic Saving the Day Hero person thing
Your just an ordinary generic person who is just walking down the street until suddenly a blinding light appears and tells you that you are destined for greatness. For some reason you start conversing with the bright light and you find out that you have some magical hidden power of awesomeness. Instead of going to a doctor to check if your hallucinating you follow the bright light's directions and travel around the world. After a sequence of wtf-ness moments you finally meet the main evil person who wants to either control the entire world or destroy it. Either ones fine because in the end you suddenly gain massive amounts of strength from love and friendship you experienced on this journey and end up killing the evil dude. You either live on with your generic life as a normal dude who is secretly powerful or become the heroe of the world.
or considered crazy and is in a mental ward

- Mary Sues/Gary Stus
Just... no. Its. Just. Not. Right.... :T

- The Protagonist is Mental
Nothing in the game is actually real. Nothing at all.

- Chosen One
Your a person like everyone else until one day *repeat the save the day scenario*... <_<;

This can go on forever... but let us stop there.
or I just won't shut up
it's not all that bad.
Actually most of my favorite games have these scenarios in them. ^w^

The reason why people keep using these cliches is because MOST of the time it works.
yes, this is just me trying to justify why I use these cliches....

It's all about how you present and if you can pull it off with out... being cliche.

[Friendbot2000]

- School Setting
There are A LOT of visual novels based in a school setting.
(well, it is sorta understandable since we can relate to it. Afterall I think everyone here has been to school before.)

I don't know what you are talking about. I am a robot designed to make VNs. I have never been to school. You humans are generalizing again

A really bad cliche that I have seen a lot is the "parents are evil" cliche. Well...I don't really have a problem with it when it is used correctly. Stories are all about atmosphere and background. Having your parents just loathe you and abuse you for no reason isn't realistic. You have to show why they feel their child is an abhorrent creature, not just make them out and out villains for the sake of having a villain. In one of the VNs I am working on, the main character is an albino and his parents are very well to do lawyers in a Deep South town. The parents feel awkward with all of the social pressure and they view the child as an embarrassment to them. Their motivations fueling the abuse of the child are their upbringing and social standing in the town. That is the kind of abuse that is believable to me because it has real motivations behind it. my point is that even villains need character development.

[pondrthis]

Childhood friends meeting again and falling in love isn't that unrealistic folks. If I met my second grade girlfriend again now that I'm 22, I would take her out to dinner and catch up and who knows? Maybe we would hit it off.

Lastly, to the people who say it's hard to get out of the "friend zone"... I've never once been stuck in a friend zone. It takes a certain personality to be stuck there. In fact, I can't even imagine being friends with a female and her not seeing me as a man. Perhaps that is because I'm dangerously flirtatious with all my female friends (which I have more of than male friends).

Actually, that reminds me of a cliche I don't like. I don't like gloomy protagonists. No one likes hanging around gloomy people, and I get way too much of that from my girlfriend. So the protagonist who hates life until someone brightens it up is generally a no-go, despite how much I've liked games with that cliche before.

[pondrthis]

In one of the VNs I am working on, the main character is an albino and his parents are very well to do lawyers in a Deep South town. The parents feel awkward with all of the social pressure and they view the child as an embarrassment to them. Their motivations fueling the abuse of the child are their upbringing and social standing in the town. That is the kind of abuse that is believable to me because it has real motivations behind it. my point is that even villains need character development.

Double post because of completely different topic (i.e. RANT).

One cliche I can't stand is hate directed at the deep south. I was born in AL and raised in NC, and now live in TN (I graduated near the top of my class at well-to-do Vanderbilt University), so I'm quite connected to the deep south. I've traveled the world and experienced quite a lot, so please don't think I'm about to spout ignorance as some hill-person who has never left a 100 sq-mile area. In my life I've discovered that southerners live with a stigma which others have no intention of correcting.

My parents may have been strict and outspoken, but they and any small-town community I've passed through would accept me wholeheartedly if I had some sort of disability. There would be no "believable motivation" for any couple which I would identify as southerners to abuse their child, barring mental disorders on the part of the parents. Now, don't get me wrong, often abuse happens without motivation (contrary to what you apparently believe), but abuse to protect social standing is NOT something that would happen in the deep south. Japan, perhaps, but in the south, people help each other... especially those who can't take care of themselves.

And to preempt accusations of southern racism, nowhere else do people of so many different ethnicities come together in this country. In order to protect those of you who don't have negative preconceptions of the south, I'm going to put this in spoiler tags.

The overall geographic integration of races in the south is much higher than in the north or west, due both to the percentage of minority population and the rural distribution of said population. Elsewhere, there are white/East Asian/Indian suburbs and Black/Hispanic cities; in the south, all kinds of people live in the rural areas. The suburbs are similar to elsewhere, but the cities are more diverse: I know here in Nashville we also have very large Kurdish, Egyptian, and Arab populations. Of course since it's Music City, there are lots of young people of all kinds living in the city as well, and young people keep a fresh mindset typically not full of hate.

Point is, we live side-by-side every damn day while the rest of the country segregates itself. It's only natural that a small minority of southerners has outspoken racist feelings; that same fraction of people elsewhere can peacefully live in their pitifully non-diverse communities and therefore need not be outspoken.

Ugh. I'm sorry about the rant, but some people believe every last negative depiction of the south they come across.

[Friendbot2000]

I have actually lived in Alabama for a couple of years so I know very well that the South is not the way popular culture likes to depict it. I neglected to mention that this VN is set in the 1920's when there was a lot of racism and bigotry against anything that was different. This was the trend for the entirety of the United States, not just the South. I apologize if I came across as jumping on the South Hate Bandwagon.

[pondrthis]

I figured you yourself weren't jumping on the south hate bandwagon, but I thought (and still think) that your VN might cause some people to do so.

That doesn't mean I think you should give up or anything. Just show some redeeming qualities too.

[Friendbot2000]

I figured you yourself weren't jumping on the south hate bandwagon, but I thought (and still think) that your VN might cause some people to do so.

That doesn't mean I think you should give up or anything. Just show some redeeming qualities too.

Oh of course. I have several characters in the VN that embody everything great about southern culture. I am a obsessive stereotype buster so stereotypes like the "Ignorant South" never show up in my VNs and I always show both sides of the coin. My VN centers around the history of circuses in the United States, a subject that fascinates me. The characters will be traveling all over the U.S. so every city will be painted with the typical and atypical opinions and view of the 1920s. So it won't be centered in the South.