Dealing with Writers (What works and what doesn't)

[kuroi]

I've been making games for some time now. Actually, I've been making games for a lot longer than you'd imagine looking at the number of completed games I've put out. Lately, I and the rest of the Kuroi games crew have been looking very critically at the difficulties we face in putting out games and have identified a single place where we have most of our problems.

WRITING

Getting a script from concept to written script seems be one of the greatest sources of problems in our Visual Novel creation workflow. It seems that too often, writers are flakey at best when it comes to commitment to writing a story that is not their own idea. It honestly seems that most writers are considerably better at starting projects than they are at finishing them. This has caused a great backlog of half finished projects or projects which need revision and rewrites but who's writers have wandered off. Sadly, there seems to be no where near enough new writers who can come in and finish these projects.

I would assume that this challenge has been faced by more groups than just Kuroi Games so perhaps it'd be helpful for the community in general to have a discussion about the best practices in dealing with outside writers (writers who are not also leading the game project). So, I ask everyone out there, what are your experiences with outside writers?

[KomiTsuku]

For the record, I have this problem with artists, not writers. Kinda funny.

Anyway, writers are a bit of a strange breed. Unless they are the ones developing the idea, it is pretty much just fanfic. The problem with that is you get a lot more flaky when it isn't your baby to take care of. If you don't bring the writer deep within the creation process, giving them a loud voice about what they want to do, they are going to get bored and bail on you, even more so than artists. Every writer has their own ideas, their own view.

As someone who has been writing and editing for the last decade, I'll be the first one to tell you that I have more personal projects than I know what to do with. I divide my attention between them, pushing hard on one until a writer's block slows me down, then I go on to the next one. I bounce back and forth until either a project is utterly dead and buried or I finish it. Now, the best way to control the bouncing is to be persistent. Ask for updates, ask to see the latest version of the script. Don't loom overhead like a hawk, but keep prodding every now and then. Writers are the biggest attention whores in the world. Sometimes you gotta play to that.

But, realistically, the best solution is to have someone inside the studio do it. You're not gonna get the same level of motivation out of writers who have to play by someone else's rules. Bring someone experienced in from the beginning, have them participate in the decision making from the start. Writers, more than any other position, have to have a personal, passionate part in the creation project. The characters are their children. If you don't... well, you see the results.

This is just my two cents. Take it for what it is worth.

[Viridi]

As a writer myself, I... completely agree with you. The problem with writers, I find, is we get this thing called writer's block, as artists can get artist's block. We get it more frequently when we don't feel connected to the story or characters we're writing about, and connection is harder when it's not our own idea. We can get really excited about another person's concept, but actually going through with it is another story, and we get, well, lazy. We are a lazy, flaky bunch, yes we are.

And each writer is different, so I can't really suggest what would work well to get them to cooperate. I work horribly under pressure, and I almost can't write at all when I have people relying on me to get something good done much faster than I'm comfortable. But I have a friend who loves absurd deadlines and is more than willing to drink a cafe's stock of caffeine to get their project done.

Best idea I can think of? Rotate projects, keep them interested, ask for their input and their ideas if they seem to be lagging. I know I like to bounce ideas off people when I'm having trouble writing, or when I'm writing for others, I ask questions to try to slip back into the mindset of the characters. Or sometimes I just have to write something absurd and out of character to get it out of my system.

If you get new writers who are interested, perhaps ask them to do a short script as a challenge. Test them with a prompt. If they can finish it, they're a better choice than the ones that don't bother with the test at all.

All in all, just try to communicate with them. Get them really into it. If they don't communicate or care, they're not worth the trouble.

[Deji]

Anyway, writers are a bit of a strange breed. Unless they are the ones developing the idea, it is pretty much just fanfic. The problem with that is you get a lot more flaky when it isn't your baby to take care of. If you don't bring the writer deep within the creation process, giving them a loud voice about what they want to do, they are going to get bored and bail on you, even more so than artists. Every writer has their own ideas, their own view.

This.
I've only worked as an artists for others, but every time I've tried to make a story or collaborate strongly in a story and have somebody else write it, they bail on me because they'd rather be writing their own stories.

I don't know how commissioned writers work, though; maybe I should start saving money and commission somebody to write the stuff I can't write, because promising I'll draw the whole thing and draw for their projects inn return doesn't seem to be a good deal for them X_x;

[KomiTsuku]

Anyway, writers are a bit of a strange breed. Unless they are the ones developing the idea, it is pretty much just fanfic. The problem with that is you get a lot more flaky when it isn't your baby to take care of. If you don't bring the writer deep within the creation process, giving them a loud voice about what they want to do, they are going to get bored and bail on you, even more so than artists. Every writer has their own ideas, their own view.

This.
I've only worked as an artists for others, but every time I've tried to make a story or collaborate strongly in a story and have somebody else write it, they bail on me because they'd rather be writing their own stories.

I don't know how commissioned writers work, though; maybe I should start saving money and commission somebody to write the stuff I can't write, because promising I'll draw the whole thing and draw for their projects inn return doesn't seem to be a good deal for them X_x;

Hence why you need them working on your level, and you on theirs from the very beginning. Gotta have everyone chip into the pot or someone will end up walking.

Actually, I'd take that offer in a heartbeat. Then again, I'm absolutely untalented at art and fully dependent on others. >.<;

[Applegate]

We recognise two sorts of motivation: intrinsic motivation and extrinsic motivation. What you want is an author intrinsically motivated to write a story that you would want to draw. An author that must be extrinsically motivated, whether by money, promises of fame or continuous badgering is someone who writes for a hobby, not someone who writes because they passionately want to bring their story to the world.

That may sound a bit arrogant, and I will be the first to admit so, but I believe that many people who don the title of "writer" are more interested in writing for a hobby than they are passionate to bring a story out to the world. Keep looking for a writer who is passionate about writing, not just enthusiastic.

[jack_norton]

I only use external writers now (for language reasons only), but I found out that you need to send VERY DETAILED instructions, scene by scene, otherwise is going to be a mess (especially if they don't know about renpy, visual novels, and so on).

[Aleema]

I don't think this is a problem exclusive to writers. Everyone in a project has the potential to disappear off the face of the earth. If they're working for free, it's a hobby. And hobbies are picked up and dropped when it's convenient for the person. To a few, it is a driving passion -- usually the project creators. But often the same passion can be transferred to a new project, and so we come back to the start.

I've requested help many-a-times for RockRobin, but only a handful of writers remain active. I'm not upset about it, because that's life and I knew it was going to happen, so I try to get as much as I can from them while they're around. Maybe take their ideas further and when they see that I am serious about their contributions, they might come back for another stint. Being involved in a quality, let alone finished, game is somewhat of a motivator if you can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I would have to say, I am personally delinquent on some stuff I committed myself to to other projects, so I know where these so-called deserters are coming from. "It's not my game, so what?" "You haven't nagged me, so you don't care." "You keep nagging me, you realize this is for free, right?" "I don't know anything about this project; I feel like an outsider."

The best I can do is make sure that the volunteers do not get a vibe of being used. I give them creative freedom (within reason), I try to be as involved as I can in their progress, and am extremely grateful. Because I am. I know how hard it is to write for yourself, let alone others. The only thing I can really do is make sure they know their work will be put on a pedestal. Everything else just falls to fate.

[James]

Ideally you want the outside writer to have the same qualities of a good employee.

1. Knows how to work in a group
2. Can work independently when needed
3. Willing to go the extra mile for the project

You know, the same thing everybody puts on their resume. Most writers won't pass they're commissioned. So the best you can hope for are the minimum standards.

1. Someone who can see eyes to eye with the team - no fits within the group
2. Someone who have similar ideas for the project - no strong disagreement.
3. Someone who can commit 1 hour a day at least - no time means no work done

I think the most important thing to realize, is that writers are people. People write stories base on their experience, imagination, and their concepts about a subject. That's what makes writing so personal. As long as you can make the project somehow personal to the writer. Things should work better.

Interesting story about concepts on a subject. During one of my English class, our assignment was to write a story every week base on a different subject. One time, the subject was love. So one of the girls wrote a romantic story about falling in love and had the characters kiss in the end. Another girl in class had her characters "do it" in every humanly way possible for about 95% of her story. Same subject, different concepts, very different stories.

[Auro-Cyanide]

I think this problem is going to pop up with pretty much every creative person (Probably less so with commercial creatives, especially trained graphic designers/advertisers because of the idea process). We are driven by passion and it can be difficult to feel passionate about something not of your own creation. We create and when limitations are applied we sometimes feel we could 'do better'. Or we may just get bored/distracted/sick of it all >< (taken from my point of view) The problem would be tenfold worse with free authors then paid authors, obviously. It is very easy to start thinking 'I'm not getting paid for this and it isn't even mine. Why do have to do all this work by someone else's rules?'

Now, how to fix the problem... probably easier said then done. I would think it mostly comes down to a discrepancy between what the developer wants and what the creative wants. Trying to hit a balance is probably your best bet, and trying to understand where they come from. Some people are just going to quit, and some people just are not good at working on a project. But I would also suggest looking in your own backyard just in case

As for me (I do art), this is how you keep my attention:
-Let me have a say in the story and don't hid things from me. I work best when I can really immerse myself in the story. I am not a mind reader.
-Let me do what I do best. Don't try and get a sci-fi writer to write a slice of life (unless they want to). You will just keep trying to correct them and they will get cranky. I hate when people are "But can't you do it like this..."
-Alternate between the boring and the exciting. Don't have them start writing pages of daily dialogue. Try getting them to write some of the major confrontations occasionally to liven it up.
-Show progress. It is your job to drive the team and keep in contact with them. Set short term goals so they feel they are getting somewhere. Making games is a long process, you need something to break it up.
-Know when I am doing my best. If I am doing my best the last thing I want is for you to think I am not doing it good enough. You can find someone else.
-Praise. Lots and lots of praise. In my opinion, creative people have huuuuuge egos. Even when we are being paid, it is nice to feel we are appreciated. I don't know about writing, but I have spent over 8 years learning art. I have not made a greater investment of my time in anything. The ability to create is an intrinsic part of who I am. Despite what is good commercial sense, we can get a little offended when we are not respected for what we can do. I am kind of okay with it since I have been trained as a graphic designer and you get over it. But I still don't like when people don't get what I have to do to draw.

And that is my two cents. I can definitely see peoples frustrations though. I think we tend to be very finicky. I wish anyone luck with the amount of work it takes to attract and hold the attention of a creative person