Amy's Super Life! [GxB][School life][Supernatural][Tragedy]

A place for game announcements, and for people to discuss games being made.
Forum rules
Please read the sticky before creating a new topic. Linking to Kickstarter/Crowdfunded games requires a demo. Updates to Patreon-backed games may be posted once every 2 months. Adult content should not be posted in this forum.
Message
Author
redeyesblackpanda
Eileen-Class Veteran
Posts: 1006
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:26 am
Projects: Eternal Memories, plot bunnies that won't die.
Organization: HellPanda Studios
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Amy's Super Life! (first demo)

#16 Post by redeyesblackpanda »

That's fine. That's why I gave a link. :wink:
Another thing that could be considered nerdy would be doing things to incredibly high powers in your head, like 9^74=41109831670569663658300086939077404909608122265524774868353822811305361
That's also a sign of a genius though, since keeping those numbers in your head is crazy. :lol:
Counting prime numbers might count as nerdy too, if it's a hobby, something like "2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13" and so on. It'd be hilarious once you get far into it.
(All projects currently on a hiatus of sorts. I blame life.)
Tsundere VN
Not really checking the forums any more due to time constraints, so if you want to contact me, PM. I'll get a notification and log in. :mrgreen:
Also, I've been hit and run posting, which means I don't see many replies. If you want to respond to something I've said, also feel free to PM me.

NOTE: if you've got questions about vnovel or things like that, it's Leon that you should be contacting. Leon's been pretty much handling everything, but due to various reasons, I've had to withdraw entirely.

Argeus_the_Paladin
Veteran
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:36 am
Projects: Rzeczpospolita Polska 1647
Location: Κωνσταντινούπολη, Βασιλεύα των Ρωμαύων
Contact:

Re: Amy's Super Life! (first demo)

#17 Post by Argeus_the_Paladin »

Hmm...

I can say right now that while I have as little qualms about the art of this game as the next guy, I do have quite a few comments about the writing. Your technical writing needs work, and quite a bit of it.

1) Show, don't tell

This is a golden rule. A piece of prose is generally much better if, instead of you the author stating outright that person A or object A' has property B, you show the reader how that is so. Here, right in the first sentences you gave us "Amy, our nerdy friend". Your primary way of proving to the readers that Amy indeed is a nerd, or her brother is a grade-A jackass, or her mother is "shy" (dunno how you got to this, actually. More in point no. 2 below) is "because I say so". This makes for poor and unconvincing writing. It almost seems to me that you are overly-eager to announce your characters' most superficial traits as their defining characteristic. Which brings us to point no. 2:

2) Tropes aren't cliches, yes. Does not mean you should overuse them.

Within just the first few lines of dialogues, you've given us a terribly clumsy and nerdy girl who is born into a family with a mother who seems to have been lifted straight out from a certain selection of anime, a brother who plays the role of the stupid/jerk to a tee, and a rather disconnected father who superficially doesn't give a hoot but somehow cares about her anyway. Oh, and she also befriends a token anime fan and is also picked on by the popular girl in school. I could have turned that entire sentence blue with links to the 'tropes. This is not a good thing.

It is one thing to use tropes - heck, you can't go anywhere without them in terms of fiction-writing - but to use so much of them in so quick succession as to create a sense of pastiche of various overdone high school elements is another entirely. This makes your story highly derivative and predictable, and, depending on how you look at it, contrived and hard to believe. Simply put, defining a character by a single trait is never good - it creates a one-dimensional character who is neither engaging nor convincing.

3) Nerdy? Nerdy!

Echoing what Panda said above: it's hard to find Amy nerdy. And here's why:

According to Wikipedia, a nerd is a stereotypical "person typically described as socially-impaired, obsessive, or overly intellectual. They may spend inordinate amounts of time on unpopular or obscure activities, pursuits, or interests, which are generally either highly technical, or relating to topics of fiction or fantasy, to the exclusion of more mainstream activities." So if Amy's interest is one that is too technical and advanced for people of her age, she can be confidently coined a nerd. If she's into, say, the realms of Tolkien and has memorized the history of the Quendi from the awakening of the Vanyar to the crowning of Aragorn Elessar as High King of Gondor and Arnor, she can also be considered a nerd. Here? All we are shown is her excessive interest in very simple calculus for that age, for no reason other than "because it makes her look nerdy". It doesn't, I'm afraid.

What it does, on the other hand, make her look like is someone with Asperger's Syndrome, which is described as displaying "behavior, interests, and activities that are restricted and repetitive and are sometimes abnormally intense or focused. They may stick to inflexible routines, move in stereotyped and repetitive ways, or preoccupy themselves with parts of objects." That is exactly what Amy's calculus obsession seems to be about. It serves no practical purposes. If she was doing maths to solve a difficult problem, to figure out an unknown variable in a highly obfuscated equation or testing her mettle against some unproven theorems, it's another thing entirely. That's not the case - she's simply droning a simple calculus expression that has been taught in many educations to students in year five or six. I had to study cubes and cube roots of numbers from one to ten when I was in year 5, and that was quite the norm. Which is why Amy seems less like a maths genius and more like someone who is clinically obsessed with rather simple numbers.

In conclusion, my advice is as such:

- First off, please don't take this as a personal attack, and don't be disheartened. I am aware this is your first game (though I'm not sure if this is your first story), and there is still plenty of room for improvement. When I was your age, I haven't yet graduated from writing derivative Final Fantasy cookie cutter fanfics. A professional author I've chanced to know have told me multiple times that even for those who technically write well, they can expect to simply throw away their first few literary works, and that half a million words is barely the beginning for an author. The bar may be slightly different for game makers, but at the end of the day the merit holds - improvement, improvement and improvement.

- Second, you may want to make the characters more distinct and different from the tropes they are based on. Mix and match their personality traits a bit at the beginning and build on it so as to create a character cast that is less the trope personifications and more characters of their own. For instance, say you want to keep Amy a nerd. That's fine - but aside from that trait, what is she? A good friend? A friendly person at heart? Someone with a hidden insecurity? Anything goes - pick a number of secondary traits, even at random, and build on them. Apply this process to all of your character cast. What is Evan other than being a "stupid brother"? What is Varina aside from being a simple cookie cutter libby? What is Justin aside from being, well, a love-interest-to-be? Once you're done with that, you'll have a much more vibrant and lively character cast.

- Third, you might want to reconsider Amy's nerdiness. She doesn't necessarily need to be a Maths nerd - a Physics or Chemistry nerd does just fine, and in these field, trust me, even the simplest equations in the eyes of the professionals can illicit a "Wha...?" reaction from laymen. Tell me "CH3COOH - that's vinegar - interacting with C2H5OH - that is ethanol or drinking alcohol -/C6H5OH creates CH3COOC2H5/CH3COOC6H5 and water" does not sound nerdy enough for her :wink:

My apologies if this sounds too harsh. Still, I hope these comments helps, and wish you best of luck on your future endeavor with this game.
One Province Minor - 120 class variables and still counting!

Because there is no such thing as too many variables.

briannavon
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:51 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Amy's Super Life! (first demo)

#18 Post by briannavon »

Argeus_the_Paladin wrote:Hmm...

I can say right now that while I have as little qualms about the art of this game as the next guy, I do have quite a few comments about the writing. Your technical writing needs work, and quite a bit of it.

1) Show, don't tell

This is a golden rule. A piece of prose is generally much better if, instead of you the author stating outright that person A or object A' has property B, you show the reader how that is so. Here, right in the first sentences you gave us "Amy, our nerdy friend". Your primary way of proving to the readers that Amy indeed is a nerd, or her brother is a grade-A jackass, or her mother is "shy" (dunno how you got to this, actually. More in point no. 2 below) is "because I say so". This makes for poor and unconvincing writing. It almost seems to me that you are overly-eager to announce your characters' most superficial traits as their defining characteristic. Which brings us to point no. 2:

2) Tropes aren't cliches, yes. Does not mean you should overuse them.

Within just the first few lines of dialogues, you've given us a terribly clumsy and nerdy girl who is born into a family with a mother who seems to have been lifted straight out from a certain selection of anime, a brother who plays the role of the stupid/jerk to a tee, and a rather disconnected father who superficially doesn't give a hoot but somehow cares about her anyway. Oh, and she also befriends a token anime fan and is also picked on by the popular girl in school. I could have turned that entire sentence blue with links to the 'tropes. This is not a good thing.

It is one thing to use tropes - heck, you can't go anywhere without them in terms of fiction-writing - but to use so much of them in so quick succession as to create a sense of pastiche of various overdone high school elements is another entirely. This makes your story highly derivative and predictable, and, depending on how you look at it, contrived and hard to believe. Simply put, defining a character by a single trait is never good - it creates a one-dimensional character who is neither engaging nor convincing.

3) Nerdy? Nerdy!

Echoing what Panda said above: it's hard to find Amy nerdy. And here's why:

According to Wikipedia, a nerd is a stereotypical "person typically described as socially-impaired, obsessive, or overly intellectual. They may spend inordinate amounts of time on unpopular or obscure activities, pursuits, or interests, which are generally either highly technical, or relating to topics of fiction or fantasy, to the exclusion of more mainstream activities." So if Amy's interest is one that is too technical and advanced for people of her age, she can be confidently coined a nerd. If she's into, say, the realms of Tolkien and has memorized the history of the Quendi from the awakening of the Vanyar to the crowning of Aragorn Elessar as High King of Gondor and Arnor, she can also be considered a nerd. Here? All we are shown is her excessive interest in very simple calculus for that age, for no reason other than "because it makes her look nerdy". It doesn't, I'm afraid.

What it does, on the other hand, make her look like is someone with Asperger's Syndrome, which is described as displaying "behavior, interests, and activities that are restricted and repetitive and are sometimes abnormally intense or focused. They may stick to inflexible routines, move in stereotyped and repetitive ways, or preoccupy themselves with parts of objects." That is exactly what Amy's calculus obsession seems to be about. It serves no practical purposes. If she was doing maths to solve a difficult problem, to figure out an unknown variable in a highly obfuscated equation or testing her mettle against some unproven theorems, it's another thing entirely. That's not the case - she's simply droning a simple calculus expression that has been taught in many educations to students in year five or six. I had to study cubes and cube roots of numbers from one to ten when I was in year 5, and that was quite the norm. Which is why Amy seems less like a maths genius and more like someone who is clinically obsessed with rather simple numbers.

In conclusion, my advice is as such:

- First off, please don't take this as a personal attack, and don't be disheartened. I am aware this is your first game (though I'm not sure if this is your first story), and there is still plenty of room for improvement. When I was your age, I haven't yet graduated from writing derivative Final Fantasy cookie cutter fanfics. A professional author I've chanced to know have told me multiple times that even for those who technically write well, they can expect to simply throw away their first few literary works, and that half a million words is barely the beginning for an author. The bar may be slightly different for game makers, but at the end of the day the merit holds - improvement, improvement and improvement.

- Second, you may want to make the characters more distinct and different from the tropes they are based on. Mix and match their personality traits a bit at the beginning and build on it so as to create a character cast that is less the trope personifications and more characters of their own. For instance, say you want to keep Amy a nerd. That's fine - but aside from that trait, what is she? A good friend? A friendly person at heart? Someone with a hidden insecurity? Anything goes - pick a number of secondary traits, even at random, and build on them. Apply this process to all of your character cast. What is Evan other than being a "stupid brother"? What is Varina aside from being a simple cookie cutter libby? What is Justin aside from being, well, a love-interest-to-be? Once you're done with that, you'll have a much more vibrant and lively character cast.

- Third, you might want to reconsider Amy's nerdiness. She doesn't necessarily need to be a Maths nerd - a Physics or Chemistry nerd does just fine, and in these field, trust me, even the simplest equations in the eyes of the professionals can illicit a "Wha...?" reaction from laymen. Tell me "CH3COOH - that's vinegar - interacting with C2H5OH - that is ethanol or drinking alcohol -/C6H5OH creates CH3COOC2H5/CH3COOC6H5 and water" does not sound nerdy enough for her :wink:

My apologies if this sounds too harsh. Still, I hope these comments helps, and wish you best of luck on your future endeavor with this game.
Maybe I made her seem like she has Asperger's Syndrome because of the fact that I have it. I found out I had it when I was 13.

Edit: Also, thanks for the advice. I will make her talk more about physics since I LOVE science anyways.
Join Me At LivingGame Productions!

http://livinggameproductions.blogspot.com/

briannavon
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:51 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Amy's Super Life! (first demo)

#19 Post by briannavon »

(Update!)

Here is Evan, Amy's brother:

Image
Join Me At LivingGame Productions!

http://livinggameproductions.blogspot.com/

Argeus_the_Paladin
Veteran
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:36 am
Projects: Rzeczpospolita Polska 1647
Location: Κωνσταντινούπολη, Βασιλεύα των Ρωμαύων
Contact:

Re: Amy's Super Life! (first demo)

#20 Post by Argeus_the_Paladin »

Hmm...

Speaking as a stranger to art, I thought there is a huge disparity in quality as well as art style between the last sprite and all before it. The first few sprites looked cartoonish, with no fancy shading effects, while this last one looks like it's of quasi-professional quality.

@ Mia, if you're still on the thread:
Mình nghĩ có khi bạn nên vẽ lại tất cả nhân vật theo phong cách bạn vẽ Evan. Chất lượng mấy sprite đầu và cuối cách nhau xa quá.
One Province Minor - 120 class variables and still counting!

Because there is no such thing as too many variables.

Egressus
Veteran
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:13 am
Projects: Things Not Seen
Location: Indonesia
Contact:

Re: Amy's Super Life! (first demo)

#21 Post by Egressus »

Agreeing with Argeus here. Since art styles can sometime change drastically, maybe just post character sketches? If the artist is still not decided upon (if multiple artists) or the style is still changing, it's better to have character sketches to gain interest while still not wasting too much time redrawing sprites.
Just throwing that out there because I'm suffering from that.

I think the difference is other than cartoonish style, is the sureness of lines. The previous ones don't have lines that stand out.
Hiatus of hiatuses

briannavon
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:51 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Amy's Super Life! (first demo)

#22 Post by briannavon »

Update!: One of Loren's recolored sprites:

Image
Join Me At LivingGame Productions!

http://livinggameproductions.blogspot.com/

briannavon
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:51 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Amy's Super Life! (first demo)

#23 Post by briannavon »

Update!: One of Amy's recolored sprites!


Image
Join Me At LivingGame Productions!

http://livinggameproductions.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Nuxill
Veteran
Posts: 464
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:50 pm
Projects: No Friend
Tumblr: nuxill
itch: nuxill
Contact:

Re: Amy's Super Life! (first demo)

#24 Post by Nuxill »

The image isn't showing up... did you link it wrong perhaps?
(also I just noticed that you're located in Philly. Awesome! I go to school there. :P )

User avatar
miaverana
Regular
Posts: 154
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:53 am
Completed: Nothing at all~ ^w^
Projects: Amy's Super Life, Princess of the Death (belong to Princesses Series)
Organization: ~o0o Valonia o0o~
Location: Vietnam
Contact:

Re: Amy's Super Life! (first demo)

#25 Post by miaverana »

Because the image isn't showing up, I guess I'll update Amy.
Image

briannavon
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:51 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Amy's Super Life! (first demo)

#26 Post by briannavon »

Small update:

The game contains 237 screens of dialogue.
These screens contain a total of 1,858 words,
for an average of 7.8 words per screen.
The game contains 7 menus.
Join Me At LivingGame Productions!

http://livinggameproductions.blogspot.com/

briannavon
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:51 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Amy's Super Life! (first demo)

#27 Post by briannavon »

Update!:

We have a logo:

Image

And a new text box!:

Image
Join Me At LivingGame Productions!

http://livinggameproductions.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Cinnamoon
Regular
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 5:24 am
Projects: Crystal Aria ~Starlight (20%), かわいいなリズム (38%)
Organization: CoffeeCat
Location: France~ ^^
Contact:

Re: Amy's Super Life! (first demo)

#28 Post by Cinnamoon »

Hello there !

First, I have to say I looooooove your textbox <3 It is so cute !

I tried the demo, and I think it was all going too fast. We don't know much about Amy, and saying "she's a nerd" is good, but I don't understand HOW she is a nerd. There are a lot of statement like this ; but we don't really get to know the setting and the characters.
The art is cute <3 I'd love to see the others sprites.

Good luck on your VN, I'll be waiting for the entire game :)

(and please forget my bad english >.<)

briannavon
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 505
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:51 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Amy's Super Life! (first demo)

#29 Post by briannavon »

Cinnamoon wrote:Hello there !

First, I have to say I looooooove your textbox <3 It is so cute !

I tried the demo, and I think it was all going too fast. We don't know much about Amy, and saying "she's a nerd" is good, but I don't understand HOW she is a nerd. There are a lot of statement like this ; but we don't really get to know the setting and the characters.
The art is cute <3 I'd love to see the others sprites.

Good luck on your VN, I'll be waiting for the entire game :)

(and please forget my bad english >.<)
A lot has changed since the first demo. Trust me, the next demo will be way better! :D
Join Me At LivingGame Productions!

http://livinggameproductions.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Cinnamoon
Regular
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 5:24 am
Projects: Crystal Aria ~Starlight (20%), かわいいなリズム (38%)
Organization: CoffeeCat
Location: France~ ^^
Contact:

Re: Amy's Super Life! (first demo)

#30 Post by Cinnamoon »

briannavon wrote:A lot has changed since the first demo. Trust me, the next demo will be way better! :D
Do you know when you will release it ? I'm looking forward to this ^^

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot]