OTChi Kocchi [BxGs] Complete Game

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Clayton Barnett
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OTChi Kocchi [BxGs] Complete Game

#1 Post by Clayton Barnett »

Abstract: On August 4th, txting with a colleague who draws, I suddenly suggested that we make a VN. He, sensibly, asked, "What's a Visual Novel?" Forty days later, we have a production company, website, devblog, hundreds of drawings and over 24,000 words... for Act I... of an expected series of sixteen acts.

Title: OTChi Kocchi.

Theme: Dithering kills; figuratively and literally.

Style: First person protagonist; male.

Plot: At the end of his second year in college, Shirou Atazuki's life is at a dead end. Never having made a tough decision, he's just been skating by in life. Now, with his grades foundering and his girlfriend gone, due to his indecisiveness, he meekly follows a counselor's suggestion to take a part-time job in the Pharmacy Department at the attached Teaching Hospital. There, he meets his new colleagues and has a chance to change his world beyond anything he could imagine... the choice is his.

Splash Screen
Image

Rimu. Oldest and Best Friend. Wanna-be mangaka.
Image

Atti. Single mom. Relentless, but troubled.
Image

Aoi. Everyone's genki-girl... and maybe more.
Image

Aris. Tall. Mysterious. Stop reading my mind!
Image

An example of our internal text-with-direction would be this excerpt from Scene 7:
Rimu: "Ummm, sorry, Shirou... but I knew you'd be starting today, and we'd not see each other for a while and Iwasjustreallyhappy...." Her voice trails off as Aris says...
Aris: "That's right. Rimu had told us some days ago that you two have know each other for years." She looks at Rimu. "Your feelings are obvious. [Rimu's face goes scarlet].[Aris turns to Shirou] "What are your feelings?"
Shirou: "Wha...? Me? Well...
1. "...I've missed you, Rimu." +1;
2. "...it's OK to see you again, I guess." Rimu -1
Aris: "I see."
Shirou: She does?
Aris: "We did come out here for a short break, Shirou. Shall Rimu join us as we get something to drink?"
Shirou: "That'd be great. Rimu?"
Rimu: "I'd love to! There's a drink machine right over there. Oh! Let me go get my sketchbook first!" She moves back to the fountain then rejoins us.
Shirou: Her sketchbook? "Are you still trying to become a professional mangaka, Rimu? I thought your family made you give that idea up?" I know that here father was mad as hell about the whole idea.
Rimu [pissed look]: "Humph! That old man doesn’t know what he's talking about. OK, I came to the dang college because it was close to home, but that's just so I’ve a free place to stay. My money from this job and all my time is drawing and writing! [proud/smug look] You know, I'm in two circles now? I might even make it to Comiket next year!"
Shirou: "Really? That's great then." And for more than one reason. Three years of listening to her in high school about 'going to Comiket....' Maybe now she'll shut up about it.
Aris: "Doubtful."
Shirou: Huh? What?
[pan 90deg left; drink machine scene]
Aris: "The selection today looks a bit doubtful. I wonder when this is serviced. They should take care of their machines." Even so, she feeds in some coins and retrieves a can of something.
Rimu: "What did you get today, Aris?"
Aris [dour]: "It's blue."
Rimu: "...oh. I'll get a black tea then. What would you like, Shirou?"
Shirou: "I guess an iced coffee, thanks." I start to pull come coins out of my pocket, but Rimu suddenly hands me a can.
Rimu [full cute]: "My treat. It's nice to see you again! And to be working with you!"
Production Notes:
Act I consists of thirty scenes. There are several decision points and multiple plot paths.
Act I is scheduled for release on January 4, 2013.
Act I is free; no charge to the user.

The complete game will have between 12 and 20 more Acts; 3-5 Acts once a particular girl is selected as your focus.
The complete game will be finished in late 2013 (fingers crossed!)
The complete game is a commercial venture and will be sold.

We are also planning a host of product tie-ins. There are four "Prequel" mangas that are already written with the artwork 40% complete, we have several other merchandizing ideas, as well.

We are currently working with the RenPy engine.

Questions:
We seem to have a basic hold on things like story and art. Learning to code is a bother, but we're slogging away at it. Are there any tricks to be learned there?

At what point should playtesters be brought into the fold?

According to my artist, at over 24,000 words for just Act I, I need to learn to shut the hell up. Hey, 24k was after editing! But he may have a point. What's the threshold for "too talky?"

We look forward to hearing from you and posting more!

Homepage (placeholder)
DevBlog (new)
Last edited by Clayton Barnett on Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:10 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: OTChi Kocchi [BxGs][Romance][Normal][Paranormal]

#2 Post by gekiganwing »

Welcome to the forum, Clayton Bennett.

First things first... your project is quite ambitious. It sounds like you plan to write a lengthy story (both before and after your main character is paired off with one of the girls), sell it, and create some spinoff comics. Some important questions, if you don't mind me asking...

1. Have you already created and sold an independent game? If not, then make sure to talk with people on this forum and general indie game forums. They can probably provide you with useful advice and criticism. Perhaps they can help you with important things such as how to sell your product on its strengths, how to find an audience, etc.

2. How will you remain dedicated and passionate enough to finish your story? This is crucial. A lot of people start writing games and VNs but lose interest along the way. (Yeah, that includes me. Sigh.) Job commitments, health issues, and technical problems have caused a lot of games from getting completed and released. Some people form a team, but interpersonal conflicts cause the team to fall apart. That said, help us understand how you and your group will overcome the odds and complete your game.

3. It sounds like your work-in-progress is a visual novel with no simulation elements, schedule management, or other forms of gameplay. Please keep in mind that only a few English speaking indie devs are currently selling straightforward visual novels. If you look at most of the products being sold through Hanako Games, Winter Wolves, or Zeiva Inc, you'll see that the majority of them have some form of complex gameplay. That includes puzzles, role playing, and simulation elements. It's likely a lot easier to sell complex games to current English speaking fans. Remember, more people have heard of the Flash game Nanaca Crash than Cross Channel, the original visual novel that inspired it -- which wasn't fan-translated until 2009. Having said that, there are exceptions. Moacube's Cinders is a cut-and-dry VN, and Date Warp is a VN with a small number of mandatory puzzles. And you'll find some works in progress here which are intended to be both commercial games and VNs with no added gameplay.

4. Speaking of things that are easier to sell, I think you might have an easier time selling your spinoff comics than your main visual novel. I will not discourage you from selling either your comics or your VN. But keep in mind that there are not many English speaking fans that know that VNs exist, and even fewer fans who believe that the format can be used for something besides harem/fetish/porn games.

Some less important stuff...

* It sounds like your game is set in present-day Japan. (If not, please say so.) Have you lived there? Do you have any family or friends who have lived there?

* Have you ever worked in a teaching hospital? Do you know someone who has?

* What does your title mean?

* It sound like your game is more of a slice of life story around a hospital than a life-and-death drama. I know you probably don't want to reveal plot details yet, but why do you state that your main character's dithering might lead to literal death?

* If the game happens in a relatively realistic version of Japan, then it would make sense that many of your characters will have Japanese names. So why have you chosen to use the names Aris and Atti? (Accordiing to babynamescentral.com, Aris is a gender neutral name from old Greek that means "best, excellent." That site also says that the name Atti is a girl's name from old Norse that means "divinely beautiful.")

Even though just about all the VNs that I read from 2002 to early 2005 had boy x girl(s) pairings, I still like 'em. Especially if I find the character designs to be cute or attractive. So if you like visual novels with BxG pairings, then by all means keep writing and coding. That said, I also encourage people to create something besides BxG stories. It's definitely possible to create visual novels without a male main character and three to five haremettes. There's plenty of opportunities to write other pairings, or stories about friendship in general, or stories focused on a less personal plot, or...

I like your character designs. Seeing a girl in jeans, casual clothes in general, or even just hospital uniforms is a nice change from school uniforms. I'm sure someone else can provide you better feedback on art.

As for your character concepts, the one that stands out is Atti, since you stated that she is a single mother. There are few romance games in English that include a mother who's not related to the main character as a romance option. (I found only four examples on the VNDB under the tag "Non-blood-related Mother as a Heroine." Keep in mind that each one has at least some adult content. I'm not all that familiar with Yu-No...)

Finally, if you want to use Kickstarter but you haven't used it before, you'll benefit by asking for advice first.

Thanks for reading this overly long post.

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Re: OTChi Kocchi [BxGs][Romance][Normal][Paranormal]

#3 Post by Pandora »

I like the retro art style you used; it really resembles anime from the late 80's/early 90's!
Image

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Re: OTChi Kocchi [BxGs][Romance][Normal][Paranormal]

#4 Post by Clayton Barnett »

gekiganwing wrote:Welcome to the forum, Clayton Bennett.
Thank You!

1. Have you already created and sold an independent game? …
No. That’s one of the reasons that I’m here. If you’d care to point me in the direction of forums such as those, I’d appreciate it.

2. How will you remain dedicated and passionate enough to finish your story? …
Alcohol; I’m a Celt.
Writing is a process of discovery for me. Besides a very few plot points, the 25k words I wrote in 15 days for Act I flowed very easily; they still are, much to the chagrin of my artist. My day-job is a non-issue, I cannot predict health issues, and besides the RenPy learning curve, I foresee few technical issues. My colleague, Will, and I are not wildly emotive, and I see little chance of histrionics.


3. It sounds like your work-in-progress is a visual novel with no simulation elements…
Do I expect this to be easy? To find a ready market? Not at all. VN’s are a niche within a niche… at best. Now that you’ve pointed out elements such as these, we’ll certainly consider them; it’s one of the reasons we’re on this forum.

4. Speaking of things that are easier to sell, I think you might have an easier time selling your spinoff comics than your main visual novel…
Selling of the complete game is more than a year away. The Act I “demo,” as it were, will be free. And you very well may be correct… if it appears that a better business model is free s/w with merchandize tie-in, then we’ll pivot.

* It sounds like your game is set in present-day Japan. (If not, please say so.) Have you lived there? Do you have any family or friends who have lived there?
Yes; no; yes.

* Have you ever worked in a teaching hospital? Do you know someone who has?
Yes. We are both in the Pharmacy Department of a teaching hospital. “Write what you know,” as they say.

* What does your title mean?
Nothing.

* It sound like your game is more of a slice of life story around a hospital than a life-and-death drama. I know you probably don't want to reveal plot details yet, but why do you state that your main character's dithering might lead to literal death?
You’ve clearly not read Scene 18b. A game, by definition, must be capable of being lost. There are several degrees of losing possible in the final release, including the demise of the main and other characters resulting from both poor and non-decisions.

* If the game happens in a relatively realistic version of Japan…
Thank you for your time looking all that up.

Even though just about all the VNs that I read from 2002 to early 2005 had boy x girl(s) pairings, I still like 'em…
While occasionally funny in anime & manga, I find the idea of a harem-ending so out of touch with reality that it’s be impossible for me to write it. I’ve also placed some… internal restrictions on the story that does make things a bit more difficult for me, but also has led to better characterization.

I like your character designs. Seeing a girl in jeans, casual clothes in general, or even just hospital uniforms is a nice change from school uniforms. I'm sure someone else can provide you better feedback on art.
Please thank my artist, Will Deonne, for that. I agree about school uniforms. These women range in age from 19 to 26, and, besides scrubs at work, there are a variety of outfits when off the clock.

As for your character concepts, the one that stands out is Atti, since you stated that she is a single mother. There are few romance games in English that include a mother who's not related to the main character as a romance option…
Thank you again. I find her a fascinating character to write. The loss of her husband and the effects of that upon her I continue to explore. My colleague prefers what I’ve written about Aris… but she’s… different.

Finally, if you want to use Kickstarter but you haven't used it before, you'll benefit by asking for advice first.
Will has some experience with Kickstarter, and I’ve left most of that work in his capable hands.

Thanks for reading this overly long post.
Not at all. Thank you for taking the time to create such a detailed response to a newbie such as myself. Cheers!

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Re: OTChi Kocchi [BxGs][Romance][Normal][Paranormal]

#5 Post by silverstez »

Brilliant artworks :D

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Re: OTChi Kocchi [BxGs][Romance][Normal][Paranormal]

#6 Post by gekiganwing »

There are a lot of forums for people who are creating and selling indie games. Some established current game creators/groups (specifically, Katawa Shoujo, Hanako Games, Winter Wolves, and Shira Oka) have their own dedicated forums, but they may not be the best places to ask for advice.
Clayton Barnett wrote:...besides the RenPy learning curve, I foresee few technical issues.
If you have trouble using Renpy, be sure to ask. Especially if you can't create the special effect that you want or find an inexplicable bug.
Clayton Barnett wrote:Selling of the complete game is more than a year away... And you very well may be correct… if it appears that a better business model is free s/w with merchandize tie-in, then we’ll pivot.
This is something to think about over the next few months. If you definitely want to sell your main game, it might be possible. In this regard, I believe you'll benefit from other people's feedback. Perhaps they can help you figure out how much commercial potential it has, and how easy it will be to find a market.

I can name several franchises in which a spinoff animated series or comic was professionally translated and sold, but the original visual novel went ignored. Without doing internet research, here's eight examples... Kanon (2006 TV series), Kiminozo (Rumbling Hearts), Brighter than Dawning Blue, Fate/Stay Night, To Heart, Canvas 2 (though only on Crunchyroll), La Corda d'Oro, and Sukisho. And there's some series which had VN or kinetic novel spinoffs that were not professionally translated, including Suikoden and Love Hina.
Clayton Barnett wrote:A game, by definition, must be capable of being lost. There are several degrees of losing possible in the final release, including the demise of the main and other characters resulting from both poor and non-decisions.
I apologize if I did not realize this. While some creators choose to only include good endings, I think that a dramatic game or VN can benefit from some genuine bad endings.
Clayton Barnett wrote:While occasionally funny in anime & manga, I find the idea of a harem-ending so out of touch with reality that it’s be impossible for me to write it. I’ve also placed some… internal restrictions on the story that does make things a bit more difficult for me, but also has led to better characterization.
I'm trying to remind myself to differentiate between "love polygon" and "harem." Though as this TVTropes discussion infers, it's not always easy. Perhaps the main difference is that only in harem series it's possible for the main character to have a lasting relationship with two people at the same time.
Clayton Barnett wrote:These women range in age from 19 to 26...
One last question for now. What level of content do you plan to create? What sort of rating would it get from the MPAA, ESRB, or some similar organization?

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Re: OTChi Kocchi [BxGs][Romance][Normal][Paranormal]

#7 Post by Clayton Barnett »

silverstez wrote:Brilliant artworks :D
Thank you! I'm sure my colleague is basking in your praise.

Here's another. Aris & Aoi.

Image

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Re: OTChi Kocchi [BxGs][Romance][Normal][Paranormal]

#8 Post by Clayton Barnett »

gekiganwing wrote:There are a lot of forums for people who are creating and selling indie games. Some established current game creators/groups (specifically, Katawa Shoujo, Hanako Games, Winter Wolves, and Shira Oka) have their own dedicated forums, but they may not be the best places to ask for advice.

I'm trying to remind myself to differentiate between "love polygon" and "harem." Though as this TVTropes discussion infers, it's not always easy. Perhaps the main difference is that only in harem series it's possible for the main character to have a lasting relationship with two people at the same time.

One last question for now. What level of content do you plan to create? What sort of rating would it get from the MPAA, ESRB, or some similar organization?
Thank you for the link... more to read in my copious spare time!

I'm still pretty set against a complicated web of relationships at the end of a story arc. I've thought of Good/Bad Ends for each of the four (including a Neutral End for Aris); in some they're all friends at the end; in one, I think even the buildings get knocked down!

Level of content. Yes, that was something we went back and forth about. What's in my head right now does include some violent events as well as sexual content. So does reality. Our artist, Will, suggested we either have a "toggle adult content off" feature or, given that I tend to write and write, that I just create an "under 18" version of the full game. We shall see.

I was curious to see if I could write a romantic/sexual scene without either weirding myself out or laughing hysterically. Based on a quick sketch of Will's, I think I managed to navigate that mine field. From a "ratings" standpoint he -- much more into popular culture than I -- said after reading it, "More than what you'd see on Fox, but less than HBO." Make of that what you will.

Once again, thank you for your comments and sharing your experience.

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Re: OTChi Kocchi [BxGs][Romance][Normal][Paranormal]

#9 Post by whatle02 »

Aris can only be who she is.

"Mysterious girls are mysterious."
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Re: OTChi Kocchi [BxGs][Romance][Normal][Paranormal]

#10 Post by Clayton Barnett »

New Material! Character Precis' --

Aoi Yamada
Age: 19

Fun and impulsive, Aoi is definitely an “act first, think later” person. Raised in a Nagasaki dojo owned by her grandparents, she loved to play but hated school. After taking her Grandfather’s advice for a wanderjahr between high school and college, she decides to attend Hakko Ichiu Technical College after meeting a friend for lunch in that town. For expenses, she takes a job as a Pharmacy Purchasing Tech at the attached Teaching Hospital.

She was taught to write poetry from her friend in London and enjoys going on walks… very long walks.


Rimu Shizuoka
Age: 20

Moving with her family to Nabato city after her father took over a grocery store there, Rimu enters the Fifth Grade in mid term and finds herself sitting next to Shirou Atazuki. After beating him up from his teasing of her, they become fast friends… even if she kept on beating him up.

Her father expects her to learn more and more about the grocery and eventually succeed him. She loathes the idea and wants instead to be a professional artist, a mangaka, with her own studio.

To save money and to teach her managerial skills, her father – having forbidden discussion about manga – sends her to a local college. To spite her father, she takes a support job at the college’s Teaching Hospital rather than spending her off hours in the Produce aisle.


Aris Kaguya
Age: appears about 24

‘A Riddle, Wrapped in a Mystery, Inside an Enigma.’

Foreign; and tall! But also graceful and powerful. An odd woman who’s tendency to complete other’s sentences is annoying, but her habit on starting them is downright strange. She claims to have been ‘on assignment’ for 814 days… whatever that may mean. Seemingly more interested to converse with the voices in her head, she is initially aloof towards Shirou, yet at time same time, fiercely loyal and kind to her friends.

We know very little about her, beyond her interest in PSP games and shouchu. As Aoi dismissively waves, “Mysterious girls are mysterious.”


Name: Atti Gaetsuri
Age: 26

Let her speak for herself: ‘I am Atti Gaetsuri. Female. 24 years old. I was born and raised in an insignificant village in northern Hokkaido. I completed High School, with honors. I completed college in Sapporo with a degree in Accounting, with honors. I have always known what I want and what to do. I am our culture’s ideal of intelligence, training, self-control, reason and precision. After graduating college, I accompanied three friends for a dive trip on Okinawa. Since then, my life has never been the same.’

Just over two years later, a widow with a two-year-old daughter, Atti strives to put the shattered pieces of her life back together. “Professional” at work, “loving” for her daughter, and a lost soul in the quiet of the night.

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Re: OTChi Kocchi [BxGs][Romance][Normal][Paranormal]

#11 Post by Clayton Barnett »

New Material! Prologue!
Note that this includes my internal "direction" for both art and coding.

[location: n/a]
[after clicking ‘start new game’, black screen, full txt]
My second school year was nearing its end.
It had been really great: for the first time in college, I had a girlfriend.
We’d met in the start of the Winter term; we really seemed to hit it off.
She was amazing at everything she did… except trying to tutor me to keep up in biology.
I found out from a friend of mine that she was already working with some grad students on a project; something to do with nanotech and cancer.
[remove txt, new blank screen]
Me? I was more in the “general business, general studies, generally nothing” major.
I think it was she that made me aware how pathetic I was. I kinda started to resent her for that.
Then, a month before the term’s end, she got a call from Tokyo U… they wanted her, and would give her a free ride.
I knew she’d decide to go. She’d have been crazy not to.
But when she told me about it, she paused, stuttered, nervously looked away. No eye contact, fumbling hands, shallow and ragged breaths.
I stood there, mute, letting her go on. Doing nothing.
[remove txt, new blank screen]
After that conversation, I wandered the college. My feet just kept moving around school grounds ever so slowly. Then the clock tower chimed. My instincts immediately told me to go to where we had always met. Had.
Surprisingly, there she was.
[location: prologue bg scene; sakura trees about to bud, camera about 25’ off the ground, looking down at angle on Shirou and girl; add txt box]
Girl: “I know you can’t attend, too, but there’s plenty of other colleges in that area….”
Shirou: “Sure. There’s bound to be an Underachiever’s U.”
Girl: “Damn it, Shirou! I’m trying to help you! I thought we had something here….”
Shirou: “’Thought we had?’ I guess it’s all past tense now, huh?”
Girl: “No! I’m sorry, that was stupid of me. Look, I’m trying here, won’t you?”
Girl: “What about you? What the hell about you, Shirou?!?”
Shirou: She’s starting to cry, and I stand there.
Girl: “When are you ever going to make a DECISION?!?”
Shirou: Crying, she turns and runs. What should I do? What?
Shirou: “I... I...”
[fade to black; reopen on Purchasing; overlay full txt]
And now, I’m here.
Our college has a small teaching hospital attached to it. Lots of students work there, defraying the cost of their education. Another of my problems. When I told a counselor I needed an income and he mentioned the hospital, for once I jumped at the chance.
Was it because of her? In the medical field?
Did I think I could get someone like that… back?
I don’t know what I thought, but now, I’m here: the Purchasing Area of the Pharmacy Department.
Most of the other technicians need some kind of certification, but since this was, I was told, basically just a delivery job, I didn’t.
So, after an interview with HR, then with my prospective boss, a week later…

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Re: OTChi Kocchi [BxGs][Romance][Normal][Paranormal]

#12 Post by whatle02 »

Which style looks better?


Looking at the line-art for our project, coloring has come up multiple times. So we ask, which one looks better? the Retro or modern?


Will
Artist
3-AR :mrgreen:
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Re: OTChi Kocchi [BxGs][Romance][Normal][Paranormal]

#13 Post by gekiganwing »

whatle02 wrote:So we ask, which one looks better? the Retro or modern?
If you ask me, the retro style. I'm not a big fan of shiny skin. Also, I think the character almost fades into a pink-and-white background.

...But I'm not exactly knowledgeable about anatomy and visual art criticism. I'm sure that someone else can provide more detailed feedback.

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Re: OTChi Kocchi [BxGs][Romance][Normal][Paranormal]

#14 Post by PyTom »

I like the top version better - but it isn't clear how much of that is from the style, and how much of that is because it's technically better. I do think I like the slightly wider head - the bottom version looks more emaciated.
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Re: OTChi Kocchi [BxGs][Romance][Normal][Paranormal]

#15 Post by nyaatrap »

Marketing popularity may be the top. However, I think 3/4 top mixing 1/4 bottom is more balanced.

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