Magicians of Delphine[GxB][BxB][Dating Sim]ALPHA(July 8)

[angeliza]

O.O
This has officially surpased all levels of awesome.^^

[Cith]

I know there's probably not much to go on, but does the premise at least sound somewhat interesting? :S Would it be a game you'd be interested in playing? Can I ask what about it is interesting or not interesting to you? (Gameplay plan, plot, characters, art, etc)

It looks amazing, but having different gameplay in part 2 may cause some angst. Some people love sim games but not really VNs, some love VNs and not sims, and some people just have moods where they want to play one or the other. Changing the gameplay half-way through is risky, and may not go down well. I'd probably get half-way through and abandon it, for example, because when I'm in a sim mood, I'm not really interested in VNs. But if it's done really well I may stick with it. It also depends on how long part 2 is compared with part 1.

The battle system is a cool idea, but will be tricky to get properly balanced.

Good luck!

[nororin]

Oh my! ⊙ 0 ⊙

[1] Dating sim, battle system and an amazing art to boot! Everything I'm looking for a game is going to be in here ; v ;
[2] Of course, I am! I think a turn base battle system would be a best option.
[3] Romance, humor and a lot of battles. Yes, definitely a lot of battles!
[4] To be honest, I really don't know if separating them would be a good idea but it still sounds interesting so go for it!
[5] Gosh, I can't wait for you to finish it!!

[Rinima]

I'm hoping to put a small heart in the corner indicating a character's affection level with you. I'm still undecided between making it a vertical bar that fills up the more affection you get, changes color depending on how close you are (like Harvest Moon) or if I should make it change color and size change like Tokimeki Memorial.

indicator.png

The bar is good but simple to look at. You'd probably never see it filled until towards the end of the game, and it might be annoying to see everyone else's heart indictator as empty. Color change, however, makes it so the heart is already full so you get a sense of accomplishment looking at it (lol, idk, I do). It's also easy to see. As for Resize, it's only good if it is big.

Oh! Maybe I could have a huge visual indicator behind the character pictures (Maybe 50% of the box behind Sho)? I don't know. "orz

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. :'D

Hey!

Um, yea, I think the colour changer looks the best, but that's just my opinion.
The resize one, I feel like it would be to difficult to tell if there's been any change in affection I guess (that's what usually happens for me anyway), and the bar one, while easy to read, I feel is a tad dull?

Or maybe it just because I love harvest moon. Who knows.

[kelsaki]

Oh! Maybe I could have a huge visual indicator behind the character pictures (Maybe 50% of the box behind Sho)? I don't know. "orz

For visual appeal, either the color changing heart or the visual indicator behind the character might be best. That way it still catches the eye and you don't have to factor in room like you would have to for the resizing heart

Those are just some thoughts though! Your work on this project has been phenomenal all this time, so there is no doubt that you will make a great decision for the design

[akemicchi]

@ Hazel-Bun
2&4) I'll do that! I just wanted to know if there were any strong feelings concerning the addition of a battle system right off the bat, haha.
6) That's great to hear! I'm glad cutting it down to just those three has been a good choice. I don't want people to feel overwhelmed with all the numbers.

@ angeliza:
///// Aaahh, thank you. I still need to release a demo so you can see what it's really like, though, haha.

@ Cith
That's exactly what I'm worried about! Would being able to save at important transition points, like saving right before the VN part, be better? Granted, you'd still have to slog through the dating sim part, but would it alleviate the issue of playing through things you're in the mood for better?

This reminds me to fix the number of save slots I have available to the player. I lowered the number of save slots down to 11, but now that you've mentioned people having different moods for different kinds of games, I think I should give people a LOT more save slots. Thanks! :)

@ Rinima
I like color changer too. (My descriptions of each of them were already so biased lol) I feel the same way about the other options. And yay, a Harvest Moon fan! \o/

@ kelsaki
Yeah, I'm leaning towards those, but I'm also trying to think up of other options. I'll figure it out! \o/ Thanks!

And aaahhh you're too nice ahhh /////

~*~

By the way, I forgot to mention the rating of my game. I'm guessing it'll be PG13 to 16+ for themes of war and violence, but Magicians of Delphine is pretty PG in terms of romance. Romance is pretty similar to Tokimeki Memorial GS, which means the line between romance and friendship blur into each other and you can't really tell if you're dating or if you're just friends or what. There's not even any kissing until Part II, and that's only for some of the characters. The most 'action' for some of the characters would probably just be a peck on the cheek and a brush of the hands (lol), so no implied sex or anything in the sort is in the game.

Since all the characters are supposed to be adults, is this off putting? How much romance were you initially expecting? Should there be more-- in your opinion-- given the themes of war and having an adult cast? I'm pretty insecure about this since there's so much sexuality in the culture.

... I think it also might be amusing to mention that this game's original rating was supposed to be R18. |-D (Meaning it's supposed to be in the Adults section of Lemmasoft)

By the way, I want to say thanks in advance! :D I really appreciate hearing people's thoughts! They've really let me think more in depth about my game, so once again, thank you!

[KittyKatStar]

Since all the characters are supposed to be adults, is this off putting? How much romance were you initially expecting?

Nope, not in the least. Write what you're comfortable with, let the characters express their affection in how you feel is right for them.

Just because they're adults doesn't mean they need to have more 'adult' themes. PG is fine. =)

[akemicchi]

@ KittyKatStar
Hi there! :D Thanks for the comment. It makes me feel better to hear that. The problem though is that I'm not so sure it's 'right'. It's right in that that's how I want to write it and that's how I feel comfortable writing, but I also feel like I'm actively hampering the sexuality of some of the characters. Should I adhere to that PG rating I've set or should I be more fluid with the romance? Or should I just really just buck up and be more confident in the direction of my project? Haha.

I guess I just want to hear people's personal opinions on romance. How much people prefer in a game (not necessarily mine), and what they expect, and the sort.

[kelsaki]

I guess I just want to hear people's personal opinions on romance. How much people prefer in a game (not necessarily mine), and what they expect, and the sort.

- Different stories carry their own level of romance Personally I like a story where the romance is 'real'. Now, that does not necessarily mean that there is much touching/sexy time/+18 content involved. It means that it is a romance I believe in because of who the characters are. It's made believable because of how the love develops and it's uniquely those characters' romance Also that means there can be as little or as much as happens between the two love birds. There's no set amount of romance (just so long as it's true to the characters ). Haha… it's kind of like a goldilocks paradox: some stories have lots of romance, some have about an even amount, and some have just a little. But each is right for their stories.

It's right in that that's how I want to write it and that's how I feel comfortable writing, but I also feel like I'm actively hampering the sexuality of some of the characters.

- This kind of makes me think that your characters are not going to make you write or make anything happen which you are not comfortable with . They do come from you in the first place

I hope I didn't confuse you… >///<

[noeinan]

I know there's probably not much to go on, but does the premise at least sound somewhat interesting? :S Would it be a game you'd be interested in playing? Can I ask what about it is interesting or not interesting to you? (Gameplay plan, plot, characters, art, etc)

I love that you can play as either gender, and that the dating pool consists of guys and gals. It's also cool that the genders aren't balanced-- a lot of games always have the same number of either gender as "dateable" but I don't think that's necessary. Seems more organic when it isn't, actually...

I'm curious as to why there are suddenly more mages being born. Also, seeing as a lot of the love interests can do the magic thing, I wonder how so many of them got together? Unless they're part of the new generation where mages are more common. The art is gorgeous and it should feel gorgeous.

In your opinion, would you be interested in a battle system? Or should I work on it first and release a demo with it before asking...?

I would say a demo first... Because I want to see a demo sooner!

What are you expecting from the game, based on what you've read?

I'm not sure about expectations-- it looks awesome, though!

Do you think separating the game into two distinct parts is a good idea (a predominantly dating-sim game play for the first half followed by a pure VN)?

I think this could work-- but only if the second half of the game is very different depending on who get "get with" at the end of the dating sim section. One thing I am particularly interested about for this is the ability of the player to see what happens to the budding couple after they get together. You could still add choices to the visual novel, but you've basically already set yourself up with whoever you're dating.

I feel like this would take an enormous amount of writing to work, though. Because even if the main storyline is basically the same (aka there are universal events that happen no matter what) we, as players, are going to want and expect to have extremely different interactions and different choices depending on who the love interest is. So basically, you'll have to write a bunch of different versions of part 2, as well as text for the choices of those versions. This sounds awesome, but it might be a lot of work for you...

Any questions about the game? Feedback? Critique? Type away!

Really looking forward to it! Keep up the good work and horribly abuse your fanbase for ideas!

@ KittyKatStar
Hi there! Thanks for the comment. It makes me feel better to hear that. The problem though is that I'm not so sure it's 'right'. It's right in that that's how I want to write it and that's how I feel comfortable writing, but I also feel like I'm actively hampering the sexuality of some of the characters. Should I adhere to that PG rating I've set or should I be more fluid with the romance? Or should I just really just buck up and be more confident in the direction of my project? Haha.

I guess I just want to hear people's personal opinions on romance. How much people prefer in a game (not necessarily mine), and what they expect, and the sort.

Speaking of ideas: I was just thinking this while reading your response, but there's a cool way you could explain not having overt sexuality in the game... Make the protagonist asexual. Then it could even be a relationship point with some of the love interests-- maybe some of them are totally fine, some have a really hard time with it, others think it's okay as long as they can get sex outside the relationship etc. Then you can mention the topic, or even talk about it (thus making the characters feel like mature adults, because talking about feelings is a thing that working relationships do) without having to write more sexy scenes or raise the age rating.

Alternatively, you could just imply sex scenes and skip them.

[Rinima]

Speaking of ideas: I was just thinking this while reading your response, but there's a cool way you could explain not having overt sexuality in the game... Make the protagonist asexual. Then it could even be a relationship point with some of the love interests-- maybe some of them are totally fine, some have a really hard time with it, others think it's okay as long as they can get sex outside the relationship etc. Then you can mention the topic, or even talk about it (thus making the characters feel like mature adults, because talking about feelings is a thing that working relationships do) without having to write more sexy scenes or raise the age rating.

Alternatively, you could just imply sex scenes and skip them.

I second this idea, it's quite clever.

On the question of if it should be R18?
Personally, I don't mind, so long as it's believable, I mean, it's use viewing them, and you don't have to see a couple having sexy times to believe it's a real relationship in real life, so the same principle should work in game
And if you force it, it'll be obvious, and I think we'd all rather have something quality and with no R18 scenes than have the scenes but it not be as good as the rest of the story, make sense?

[akemicchi]

@ keslaki
You're right! I guess it is a matter of how much a characters wants (since its their relationship and all) and not really what the players want/expect. @_@ Sometimes I get confused between the two. You have to stay true to the characters but at the same time you also have to think about your audience; figure out what is necessary to know and what is unnecessary and all those little nuances. "orz Bleh, thanks for opening my eyes.

- This kind of makes me think that your characters are not going to make you write or make anything happen which you are not comfortable with :). They do come from you in the first place :D

Haha, well, that might be true, but I also think it's the writer's job to remain objective and detached from the characters. My personal feelings shouldn't have anything to do with the way they act, but that's hard to do since the characters are pretty much my babies, haha. Thank you so much, kelsaki! I'm going to think through this a little more. :D

@ daikiraikimi
Yeah, I also think it's unnecessary to have an equal number of genders if there's already a target audience in mind. xD If the audience in mind are girls, there should logically be more male love interests...

I'm curious as to why there are suddenly more mages being born. Also, seeing as a lot of the love interests can do the magic thing, I wonder how so many of them got together? Unless they're part of the new generation where mages are more common.

Yeah, there's 7 magicians (plus the MC) and it seems like a lot since they're who make up the pursuable characters. But they're the only ones in a country of a hundred thousand people to respond to the Kingdom's call to arms. Does 8 still seem like too much, even knowing that? x_x I've grown used to the number, but thinking about it, maybe it is too much. I was also thinking of having a normal soldier as a pursuable character to somehow balance it out, but then I'd have a cast of 10 people and I can't go around make my project larger than it already is lol "orz

... Still, culling down the cast isn't really an option for me right now. I wonder what I can do to make it less prominent that there are so many magicians? I'll think more about it, thanks. :)

As to why they're popping up, I never actually tackle that explanation to be honest. xD 'They just do' is what I've settled on-- the more people there are in the world, the more likely one will pop up. Since they're like mythical creatures to begin with, I figure people in-game wouldn't ask why there are more popping up since they're still too busy comprehending the fact that magicians exist. Should I think of a reason as to why they're popping up? x_x Should I change the intro so it reflects this more?

Haha, I don't think I'd release a demo as fast if I have to program a battle system with it, but sure! xD I'll do my best.

I think this could work-- but only if the second half of the game is very different depending on who get "get with" at the end of the dating sim section. One thing I am particularly interested about for this is the ability of the player to see what happens to the budding couple after they get together. You could still add choices to the visual novel, but you've basically already set yourself up with whoever you're dating. ...

T-That's actually exactly what I'm planning to do, haha. Part I determines which storyline you're going to follow, while Part II which is a unique story following the character you pursue. I realize it's an immense amount of work, but I'm already more than a year into this game. Another year doesn't seem so bad after slogging through the first one (though hopefully it won't take that long). Haha. This project is my baby so I'd be happy to go through all the work, no problem! ovo)b

On an asexual protagonist:
A good number of the pursuable characters are already asexual, but I never thought about making the protagonist asexual. O: Doing it this way makes it much easier to explain the lack of physical intimacy in the game. It's also an easier way to circumvent talking about sexuality since the point of view follows an asexual character. That's a great idea. o__o I wonder why the thought never came to mind!

Now that I've had more time to think about it, though, I don't know if I want to tackle sex or sexuality at all in the game. There's more important themes I have to work with. But... since Part II is also partly about the relationship between the main character and the love interest, intimacy seems like an important thing to bring up. Unless I just pretend it doesn't exist, haha. "orz An asexual main character would definitely be the easiest to use to get around this! Thank you very much for your input, daikiraikimi! It's really helped a lot!

@ Rinima
Ahaha, I'm not asking if it'll be R18-- I just mentioned that's what it was previously planned to be (until I realized I don't have the stones to draw or write any sexy scenes "orz). That's true-- forcing sex in the game just because you can might be negative to the player. It'd probably be detrimental to the story if the characters aren't truly invested in it, since it'll end up as an unnecessary scene (and it'll also be bad because I don't have the skill to write/draw such things :'D). It makes sense! Thanks, Rinima!

[KittyKatStar]

Woo, asexual representation. I'd be happy with that. Again, if you don't want to tackle sex or sexuality, I think it's fine not to force yourself to? There's a few otome games that barely had more than a hug or a few subtle lines of affection and I thought it was well done. And like you said, the characters would have other things on their mind.

[noeinan]

Oh, hey, replies! Sorry for being late getting back to you, I must have missed this in my recent posts view.

As to why they're popping up, I never actually tackle that explanation to be honest. xD 'They just do' is what I've settled on-- the more people there are in the world, the more likely one will pop up. Since they're like mythical creatures to begin with, I figure people in-game wouldn't ask why there are more popping up since they're still too busy comprehending the fact that magicians exist. Should I think of a reason as to why they're popping up? x_x Should I change the intro so it reflects this more?

Hm, brainstorming! Since each mage has a different type of magic, it might be that there are only 8 magician souls in the world/country/whatever... And normally they aren't all born at once because they live an extremely long time, only to reincarnate when one dies. However! Perhaps a while back someone or something went around exterminating all the magic users, thus leading them to die and be reincarnated around the same time?

The backstory of Anima: Beyond Fantasy, a pen and paper role playing game I play, has something similar too. Suddenly, more people are being born with magic (in a world where humans are pretty hostile towards magic) but the reason is that hundreds of years ago a huge anti-magic "bomb" of sorts went off, draining magic from the land almost completely. As the land has started recovering from this catastrophe, more people with magic start being born again. (This doesn't necessarily work for your world, since they've always been rare, but is a fun example.)

In either case, I don't think you necessarily need to address it. If you don't the players may just start thinking up stuff themselves-- I've already had fun thinking up ideas and other people might also like to make up their own reason.

Haha, I don't think I'd release a demo as fast if I have to program a battle system with it, but sure! xD I'll do my best.

Another option could be to complete it without battles first, and then when you're done you could always add battles later. Maybe even sell it as an expansion or a "deluxe" edition? At the end of your writing etc. you'll have a better idea of Ren'Py, and how much programming you want to do, or if you make money from the game after release you'll have money to hire a programmer. That said, I personally don't care if there's a battle system since I'm more of a story based player.

T-That's actually exactly what I'm planning to do, haha. Part I determines which storyline you're going to follow, while Part II which is a unique story following the character you pursue. I realize it's an immense amount of work, but I'm already more than a year into this game. Another year doesn't seem so bad after slogging through the first one (though hopefully it won't take that long). Haha. This project is my baby so I'd be happy to go through all the work, no problem! ovo)b

Awesome, if the story is pretty different in each route then I think it will work out fine. ^^ Looking forward to it!

On an asexual protagonist:
A good number of the pursuable characters are already asexual, but I never thought about making the protagonist asexual. O: Doing it this way makes it much easier to explain the lack of physical intimacy in the game. It's also an easier way to circumvent talking about sexuality since the point of view follows an asexual character. That's a great idea. o__o I wonder why the thought never came to mind!

Now that I've had more time to think about it, though, I don't know if I want to tackle sex or sexuality at all in the game. There's more important themes I have to work with. But... since Part II is also partly about the relationship between the main character and the love interest, intimacy seems like an important thing to bring up. Unless I just pretend it doesn't exist, haha. "orz An asexual main character would definitely be the easiest to use to get around this! Thank you very much for your input, daikiraikimi! It's really helped a lot!

Yaaay, asexual protagonist! It's cool that there are some other ace characters, too! /asexual-representation-dance with KittyKatStar and Rinima.

I'm glad I could help! I'll keep stalking the thread. :3

[akemicchi]

@ KittyKatStar
I guess I feel pressured since there's so much sexuality in the culture. Isn't it the norm to have more than just hand-holding, a peck on the cheek, and subtle lines of affection? A great number of otome games I know of have sex in their games (implied or explicit), and there's a lot of media out with those same subjects. I mean, you don't find too much sex in the EVN community, but there are still some moments of romance that I find predominantly motivated by desire and physical intimacy. To be honest, I don't really understand this at all which is why I'd like some direction about it. Romance is my weak point (and I don't know why I'm doing a romance game), but I guess I should just do my own thing! :''''D Thank you so much, KittyKatStar!

@ daikiraikimi
In my game, it implies that the lifespan of magicians isn't that long, despite living in isolation. Reincarnation would probably work, but something like that would imply the existence of a 'past life'. It's expected that the characters would be related to one another in some way, because why would you add that element if not to explore their history together? I'm not sure if I want to do that since that means I'd have to work on establishing their past lives when I'm having enough trouble establishing their present lives, lol. o|-<

But--! I could always present it as another theory to the existence of magicians-- like you said, have a previous conflict in which magicians were routed somehow to add weight to the theory. I think the best option would be to just let the player decide for themselves which is true for them. No one in the game actually knows the reason themselves, so I think it'd be safe to keep it that way unless I add a god-like character in the game to clear things up in the True Route or something. Hmm... Actually, I can implement that. There's one character planned who's closest to a god in the game, though I'm still deciding on what limits I can place on him. Let's call him X.

X is the projected antagonist of the whole thing and he's supposed to be an all-powerful magician. He's so strong he can bend time and space!! I'm just kidding... Kind of... So far X's only weakness is the typical magician's weakness (poke him enough with a sword and he'll die ^q^) but I wonder if that's enough when his magic is like Aleo's (in that you can do everything) and more, and is considerably stronger than her in terms of magic. What are the caveats of having a super strong antagonist anyway (at least in terms of skills with the protagonist, i.e. her magic)? I think the biggest issue would be cleanly solving the conflict. Standing against someone who's supposed to be like God makes it pretty difficult to determine a plausible solution for the whole thing.

-- Anyway, back to the theory of magic thing, the reason for their existence isn't really the focus of the story although it's one of the interesting aspects of the game. It's mainly about the war and Aleo's hand in it (which admittedly isn't as interesting when written so plainly lol). I think it'd be okay to just let theories float around when it comes to the magician's existence, while being more concrete about things like the war.

That backstory of Anima: Beyond Fantasy is amazing, by the way. *_* I wish I could incorporate something like that in my game but the mechanics of my world's magic is different, ahaha.

Another option could be to complete it without battles first, and then when you're done you could always add battles later. Maybe even sell it as an expansion or a "deluxe" edition? At the end of your writing etc. you'll have a better idea of Ren'Py, and how much programming you want to do, or if you make money from the game after release you'll have money to hire a programmer. That said, I personally don't care if there's a battle system since I'm more of a story based player.

That's true, but I'd really like to hear opinions on the battle system before including it in the finalized version. I don't want something unnecessary/bulky in my game if it just detracts from the fun value. :P I'd be nice to hire a programmer, but the main reason I'm working on this game is really to test my own limits with Ren'Py. :)

... Things are much simpler now with an asexual protagonist. o|-<

I have to thank you again. I really, really appreciate the input, daikiraikimi!