I hope you guys don't mind if some of this post comes off as rambling, I didn't get a chance to sleep yet.
1. The specific number of winners and losers is something the characters themselves seem to be constantly struggling with, but to give a general answer, there can be more than one winner, but not everyone can win.2dt wrote:Stunning artwork and it's exciting to see people using something other than Ren'py (not that there's anything wrong with Ren'py, but more variety and experience means more we can learn from).
Two questions:
1. when you say "losers" in clearing the Winston game, what exactly does this mean? That there's only one winner? That there can be multiple winners/losers?
2. What's your experience like developing a visual novel with Unity? When I think Unity, I think cheap 3d games, not really visual novels. I'm currently developing an browser-WebGL canvas based visual novel engine that I'll show around here soon, and I'd love learn about other alternative tools outside of Ren'py.
2. Ah, that's an interesting question. Hope you don't mind if I don't ramble for a bit.
Making a visual novel/adventure game with Unity has been...a challenge in some ways, but I would definitely do it again. The biggest issue is that Unity's default GUI and 2D tools aren't...great. When I started making this, Unity didn't even have native 2D tools(they have since made them, but I haven't taken a look at it to be honest). Unity has a few great plugins though and they can help Unity fill out pretty much any niche. For this project I've been using NGUI, which simplified the 2D art issues by a lot. I need to note, Unity can do 2D stuff by itself, it's just a bit of a pain and NGUI isn't that expensive--so I definitely recommend it to people who want to save themselves a few hours with Unity's native tools for GUIs.
So my basic setup was Unity(free version) and the NGUI plugin. After that, I coded my own VN engine with C#, which took almost no time at all thanks to NGUI. Unity's system of scenes and game objects/reusable scripts let me make a fairly decent VN system for dialogue and etc. NGUI was especially useful with a variety of small effects you take for granted but that don't seem to work in Unity without a plugin, like drop shadow for text and similar things. The VN engine is very crude and basically handles dialogue, background sprites, character sprites and player inventory. It works decently well, but if anyone other than me tried to use it they would be very, very confused.
I coded the effects separately from the engine itself. It wasn't hard; effects were mostly handled by accessing a game object and animating it, which was pretty easy thanks to Unity's system.
Here's an example of some really early footage of what I mean:
(I've already changed a lot of the camera transitions, 3D objects and--uhh pretty much everything on the video since it was recorded, but it stands as an example)
That's from a 3D "debate" scene. I mean to change a lot about it because I'm not happy with it, but the same effects used there can be applied to 2D scenes(which I also have) so I'm using it as an example.
The camera effects were handled like this:
There is a number of animations set for the camera. (I'm working on smoothing them out right now) This includes a bunch of transitions between animations. The GameController script checks what the current script line is, then plays an animation based on that. This is a very manual process, but it works. Those animations can also apply to 2D objects(like you can see toward the end of the video) and don't take too long to prepare. There's very little automated about the transitions/effects but that's just because I'm still changing things up so much. Hopefully when I'm done with this game I can try to automate the process a bit more. Still, I kind of enjoy the manual process of the effects a bit. It gives me a lot more freedom in terms of changing the mood in a scene or going for a "slightly different than normal" transition.
Unity also exports to Android and iOS very easily, and so far I had no issue with it.
Overall, I'd recommend Unity if you don't mind doing some scripting. It's really fun to use, but holy hell its default tools don't lend themselves to creating a visual novel. I chose to use it instead of Renpy because of the rare 3D rooms for when too many characters are onscreen, plus nice as Renpy is, it doesn't lend itself too well to some gameplay things I want to try. (Though, I need to emphasize just how much I like renpy. It's really nice and I tried everything up to-and-including Wolfestein style Raycasting to use it for this project, but it was too much
I've played 999, but I can't say it came to mind often while making this. If I had to cite a direct inspiration, it would be two of John Dickson Carr's novels, The Unicorn Murders and Three Coffins, in addition to Ellery Queen's "Challenge to the Reader" concept he had going on during his earlier novels.thewriterjm wrote:When I see the number 9, puzzles, water, and mystery together, I always think about 999. Is this novel inspired by that game by any chance? Though you mentioned other sources of your inspiration (probably), I'm not familiar with the writers you mentioned (I don't usually get my story 'crack' from books, and I'm bad with remembering names, LOL).
By the way, this is the first time I've heard of Unity. I checked the software out, and I found it neat. I'll be waiting for this game. I love puzzles and a nice story.
Haha, I may have been a bit rash when describing that point. While I can't say for sure whether there will be or won't be supernatural elements in the story, I can say that the threat of "zombie punishment" is definitely more in line with "mind game." The player and the characters have absolutely no reason to believe that to be actually true, but the circumstances are so bizarre(being kidnapped to an underwater castle, everyone having the same last name) that they can't help but wonder "What if...?"AntiquedFae wrote: The only thing which is concerning me a bit is the being turned into zombies if they fail part. Smilie face sums up my face when I read this perfectly:After the initial 'Wha?' moment wore off I snorted. Everything else in the description seemed very realistic, logical and then suddenly-punishment by zombie. I'm wondering if there will be an incorporation of a lot of supernatural elements in this game, or if it is maybe more of a mind game thing? If this threat is meant to be taken seriously by the premise readers, maybe you could word it differently, so the supernatural element was a little less sudden? Or maybe just something like, "cursed to live as walking corpses within the game for the rest of eternity"?(I am guessing it is a kind of 'past losers become enemies for the future competitors' sort of thing. I apologize if this is completely not how it is in your game and I assumed something entirely irrelevant.
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There is a supernatural atmosphere in the game, but not supernatural elements--it's like the old John Dickson Carr novels, where the question usually became "Was this impossible crime committed by a human or a supernatural creature?" and the player/reader has to reach a decision about that.
And Then There Were None is a great, great book. But to be perfectly honest my inspiration actually came from John Dickson Carr's The Unicorn Murders which has almost nothing to do with this story in terms of setting, but the "Duel" approach he used really inspired me to try to go for a feeling that approached it somehow.Also, I must read more Agatha Christie. I have only been able to read "And Then There Were None" which works out well because I have a feeling that you probably were a wee bit inspired by it when writing this. Now wherever I would get that idea from?
I understand, that is something I'm trying to work on buuut I'll hold off on the details until I'm positive there won't be issues on the programming end on how I'm approaching that. But I can say I'm trying to do something about making the "debate" feel more natural.Do you generally prefer the investigation or the debate sections? I definitely prefer investigation because 1. I am a snoop and 2. I think needing to prove my points with multiple choice questions is odd and unnatural.Unfortunately I don't believe that much can be done to alleviate the problems with number 2, which I definitely understand. I just thought I would bring it up for the sake of honesty.
I can say that the relationship-building is definitely in the game already! I'm currently trying to see how far I can integrate it with the story—characters treating you differently based on how much you found out about them, and that kind of thing. It's a challenge because those "alternate reactions" need to only work based on things you can find out to advance the story but don't necessarily have to. It's a delicate balance, I suspect it will take a lot of play testing to reach a good balance.Is there anything you always wanted to see done in a mystery game? Oi, that is a big question. Possibly the option of relationship-building and unraveling mysteries surrounding other people, as well as lots of bits of supernatural things with mini sub-plots that you need to specifically look for to find (as a sort of an odd extra, maybe)? Though I am always for adding in more supernatural elements to mysteries, so long as they are logical and add something, even if it is small.unlockable ghost character WOO!That is all I can think of for now.
Oh, no wait I thought of something else! More secret passage ways. Moar spooky old undiscovered passageways with things hidden in them!(preferably bereft of jump scares because I medically cannot do jumpscares) The way I see it, there is no such thing as too many secret passages(I play Nancy Drew games; can you tell?). Feel free to take this advice with as much caution as you see fit.![]()
Ah, I know what you mean. I may be a little guilty of that, but I will see how much I can get rid of during my revision.-Not enough exploration allowed. For example, when a game tells you to 'look around' in a scene and gives you the option of clicking around. Except that it does not allow you to leave the room, there is no information given on anything that you click, the thing you need is obvious and as soon as you have it the screen goes back to being something you cannot explore or interact with. It is kind of like a question which is supposed to be open-ended having only one correct answer. I like my exploration to be rewarded when I am playing a game, and when I am provided with even a small amount of information about something I clicked on I feel rewarded because I would not have the information otherwise. I'm not sure if this makes any sense?![]()
This is a tricky point. I really like the idea of being able to let the player look at as many things as possible in as many ways as possible, but at the same time to tell a coherent story, I have to block off some choices. The definition of "some" is what the tricky point is, since I do agree that sometimes it can get a little ridiculous.-This ties into my other point but I really dislike it when there is a specific 'right' and 'wrong' way to investigate things. Obviously if you are attempting to examine a knife then sticking it through your arm would probably not be the right way to examine it. However, if, for example, I wanted to look at the knife handle because it looked like it might have fingerprints on it, but the game would only allow me to look at the blade to examine what looked like blood on it, then that seems unnecessarily prohibitive. All detectives have their own style of figuring murders out and some may seem very odd to others, but as long as it leads to the correct conclusion then they are all good styles. When I am playing a mystery game I want to be allowed that freedom of having my own creative way of figuring things out.
Thank you for your very detailed feedback, that's exactly what I like to see!
And thanks again everyone for the encouragement!
