A Smiles Dream (CANCELLED)

[ChillTaco]

I never asked questions but really. Would people like the good ending with the shaman? Nahh. What am I thinking. I know of only five people who will play this really, and only two will actually play it.

.... hah...ahahh.

[Mad Harlequin]

I've been reluctant to post because I'm not quite sure what to make of this concept. Your posts have been a little garbled, so I don't really know what kind of story you want to tell. I'm not even sure if you know. It sounds like it wants to be a murder mystery/action thriller, but you said you want to make an otome---and Laiska's explained why this doesn't really fit the definition. But you've figured that out.

I am seriously making the game and them things are my real thoughts after researching chick stuff.

What constitutes "chick stuff?"

[Rinima]

I never asked questions but really. Would people like the good ending with the shaman? Nahh. What am I thinking. I know of only five people who will play this really, and only two will actually play it.

.... hah...ahahh.

I'd like a ending with the Shaman. He's good-lookin~

[ChillTaco]

I never asked questions but really. Would people like the good ending with the shaman? Nahh. What am I thinking. I know of only five people who will play this really, and only two will actually play it.

.... hah...ahahh.

I'd like a ending with the Shaman. He's good-lookin~

Alrighty then. Ill add him. Thanks for the feedback.

[ChillTaco]

I've been reluctant to post because I'm not quite sure what to make of this concept. Your posts have been a little garbled, so I don't really know what kind of story you want to tell. I'm not even sure if you know. It sounds like it wants to be a murder mystery/action thriller, but you said you want to make an otome---and Laiska's explained why this doesn't really fit the definition. But you've figured that out.

I am seriously making the game and them things are my real thoughts after researching chick stuff.

What constitutes "chick stuff?"

Ahh that. Yea. Sorry. I have a bad personality.... Things made for the opposite of my gender? Chick stuff. I shouldn't say chick... ahhh lady things? Ive been told Im an offensive person, hence the reason my group dosnt let me descibe what we work on... hah...haha...cough.

Yea. I assumed cause it has romance and stuff it was an otome. Cause It was supposed to be made for girls. I even have glitter and rose effect assets made... right next to my death assets. I just assumed that girls could play a game with dark themes the same way boys can. Like that togainu no chi game, I never played it but I have seen some of the cgs. The things in that game are waaaaay worse then what Im making.

[Rinima]

Yea. I assumed cause it has romance and stuff it was an otome. Cause It was supposed to be made for girls. I even have glitter and rose effect assets made... right next to my death assets. I just assumed that girls could play a game with dark themes the same way boys can. Like that togainu no chi game, I never played it but I have seen some of the cgs. The things in that game are waaaaay worse then what Im making.

I think the confusion comes from the fact that the majority of otome games are 'fluffy', and your's obviously isn't. 'Dark Otome' is probably a better fit.

[Laiska]

Ahh that. Yea. Sorry. I have a bad personality.... Things made for the opposite of my gender? Chick stuff. I shouldn't say chick... ahhh lady things? Ive been told Im an offensive person, hence the reason my group dosnt let me descibe what we work on... hah...haha...cough.

I think if you really want to make a game that appeals to women, you need to research with and get feedback from a bunch of actual women. Just reading up about the things women like is not enough to give you an accurate picture of a demographic's desires. You also need to try not to denigrate the things that women sometimes enjoy. The reason that those annoying tropes often appear in shoujo works is because there are people who enjoy them.

My suggestion for this game is to not try to make a game that appeals to a group that you aren't part of, and just make a game for a general audience, that you yourself would enjoy. Whatever intent you have for the story, you're going to like it much better and get a much more satisfying result that way.

[Chasing Summer]

Honestly, there's a lot of confusion regarding the meaning of "otome", but most people agree that it requires "a female protagonist" and that it has to appeal to the female market. It also, in most cases, includes attractive males or females that are ready to pursue a romance (or friendship) with you in a hearbeat. As a female, I can say that a story like this could appeal to me. I like dark, gothic tragedies and stories that don't have happy endings just as much as your regular slice-of-life shoujo. Otome does not automatically equal cuteness and fluffiness. It's just that most female-oriented dating sims and visual novels have that theme, so it's commonly mistaken that otomes must have cute romance content. I've seen a couple of R18 otomes that deal with a lot of darker and sensitive subjects (and unfortunately, they often handle these matters insensitively).

Does that mean I would give this a chance? As it looks right now, probably not. I feel as you've already revealed a lot of things regarding the ending of the game and your posts have also been a bit garbled as Mad Harlequin mentioned.

Also, I've seen you mentioning a couple of things about people saying that your project sucks and so on. Their opinion doesn't matter if you truly care for your project and enjoy what you're producing -- do you? You know, you don't have to tag it as an otome. You could just tag it as [Female Protagonist]. I don't think your art is crap either, by the way. Art can be presented in so many forms, shapes and styles. What one may consider ugly, may be considered a unique style in someone else's eyes.

[ChillTaco]

Honestly, there's a lot of confusion regarding the meaning of "otome", but most people agree that it requires "a female protagonist" and that it has to appeal to the female market. It also, in most cases, includes attractive males or females that are ready to pursue a romance (or friendship) with you in a hearbeat. As a female, I can say that a story like this could appeal to me. I like dark, gothic tragedies and stories that don't have happy endings just as much as your regular slice-of-life shoujo. Otome does not automatically equal cuteness and fluffiness. It's just that most female-oriented dating sims and visual novels have that theme, so it's commonly mistaken that otomes must have cute romance content. I've seen a couple of R18 otomes that deal with a lot of darker and sensitive subjects (and unfortunately, they often handle these matters insensitively).

Does that mean I would give this a chance? As it looks right now, probably not. I feel as you've already revealed a lot of things regarding the ending of the game and your posts have also been a bit garbled as Mad Harlequin mentioned.

Also, I've seen you mentioning a couple of things about people saying that your project sucks and so on. Their opinion doesn't matter if you truly care for your project and enjoy what you're producing -- do you? You know, you don't have to tag it as an otome. You could just tag it as [Female Protagonist]. I don't think your art is crap either, by the way. Art can be presented in so many forms, shapes and styles. What one may consider ugly, may be considered a unique style in someone else's eyes.

Yea, I didnt expect people receive the game well. I got people who are all action/16bit side scroller players and hate Vn's back at my place. When I told them I couldent help them with assets for their next project they asked why? Mostly its cause we never finish ANYTHING. So I really wanted to finish something even if I could only make sprites.

I did completely spoil the ending didn't I? Well I assumed cause people would already know it. Once the game is done and posted, any game is done and posted, people always usually know the ending unless they read nothing about the game they decided to play. Like in Ace Attorney

(fun fact, I was going to copy the style but then the sprites would take to long to art)

I know I'm going to win, I'm going to get a good ending if I play my cards right. The results are obvious even if I don't look up a walk-through. But I still play the game to discover why my client was accused. So that's why I reveled the ending.

I'm happy my art isn't crap. I was pretty lazy with the pixels, I didn't feel like using gradation so I kept everything sharp... My roommate gave me so much shit for that. So thanks for that confidence boost.

@Rinima: Yea. Dark otome is a perfect fit.

@Laiska: I know.... I just, I already made to much, Im too deep in the hole. So I gota finish this first. Also If I don't Ima lose a bet I made. Maybe Ill make a poll If I ever have a next time for this genre.

[Laiska]

@Laiska: I know.... I just, I already made to much, Im too deep in the hole. So I gota finish this first. Also If I don't Ima lose a bet I made. Maybe Ill make a poll If I ever have a next time for this genre.

If you haven't started the actual writing, you still have a chance to change the game's direction =P Focus on the parts of it that you would enjoy as a gamer, and worry less about others.

[ChillTaco]

@Laiska: I know.... I just, I already made to much, Im too deep in the hole. So I gota finish this first. Also If I don't Ima lose a bet I made. Maybe Ill make a poll If I ever have a next time for this genre.

If you haven't started the actual writing, you still have a chance to change the game's direction =P Focus on the parts of it that you would enjoy as a gamer, and worry less about others.

I think Ill do that. Yea. I'm gunna make 2 Versions of the game for sure now, they will be release at the same time. The PG version will have a not douchey Charley, but instead a dorky narcissist. My main issue with my game was Charley and the graphic murder, I put it in for writing sake. I hate tragedies, but I understand they can make some stories good if done well. Im a fan of the Attorney games, so I wanted to write from the perspective of a victim, but I ended up very uncomfortable.

I got like 90% of the writing done unfortunately. Well actually maybe 80-85% cause Im gunna put in the Shaman. Ill change the game to something that makes me less uncomfortable in the PG version. Maybe even satire the R version somewhere in it by having Charley walk out of a back ally covered in ketchup. I like comedies. I usually write comedy/action, this entire game is out of my comfort zone.

[Laiska]

Ill change the game to something that makes me less uncomfortable in the PG version. Maybe even satire the R version somewhere in it by having Charley walk out of a back ally covered in ketchup. I like comedies. I usually write comedy/action, this entire game is out of my comfort zone.

Heh, that's probably the best way to do it! There's no sense in putting effort into a game that you yourself wouldn't enjoy, anyway. And if you really want to up the "cheese" factor then comedy/satire is a good route, for sure.

[Mad Harlequin]

Ahh that. Yea. Sorry. I have a bad personality.... Things made for the opposite of my gender? Chick stuff. I shouldn't say chick... ahhh lady things? Ive been told Im an offensive person, hence the reason my group dosnt let me descibe what we work on... hah...haha...cough.

I think if you really want to make a game that appeals to women, you need to research with and get feedback from a bunch of actual women. Just reading up about the things women like is not enough to give you an accurate picture of a demographic's desires. You also need to try not to denigrate the things that women sometimes enjoy. The reason that those annoying tropes often appear in shoujo works is because there are people who enjoy them.

Adding to this. Let's set aside the problems with demographic/marketing stereotypes for a second.

"What women like" is a very vague idea, as no two people's interests are the same. So as Laiska said, it's not wise to assume that what you see on the market applies to everyone. As a child, I played with Power Rangers action figures and Barbie dolls. I watched Batman: The Animated Series and Sailor Moon. (I still watch them today!) Boys can like dolls and E-Z Bake Ovens, and girls can appreciate matchbox cars and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. You don't have to reinforce traditional gender roles to be successful. That's become more apparent these days----we're moving past antiquated notions regarding what people should and shouldn't like.

If you write a story with the desire to appeal to people instead of "chicks" and "dudes," you'll end up with a much better product, and one that interests readers of all kinds.