(upd Jan 23, 2015) Caramel Mokaccino (Open-ish Dev)

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Deji
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(upd Jan 23, 2015) Caramel Mokaccino (Open-ish Dev)

#1 Post by Deji » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:53 am

Image
This is an Open Development Thread, meaning that there will be spoilers right and left, so if you want to remain unspoiled, you should get the hell out of here now xD.
If you want to keep informed about this project without being spoiled, you should check my blog, I may post art and other things in there that will contain no spoilers :P

*If you came here looking for pictures, I'm sorry to dissapoint you, but there aren't many ^^;
There may be some every couple of pages or so, but right now the focus is the story and not the art!
Here it is a folder where you can find most of my sketches I've ever done for this thing... most of them really old and or very rough:

http://deji.ishtera.net/pics/cmstuff/

Hope you have fun looking at them :P

January 23th 2015 EDIT:
Some updates on our progress! Yay! Also WIP images :D
http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 92#p354192

November 13th 2014 EDIT:
NECRO POSTING TO THE MAX.
APPLE CIDER IS TAKING OVER CARAMEL MOKACCINO!!
http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 31#p346431


-------- old 2012 updates below (yup, it's been a while :') I STARTED THIS THREAD ON 2010, PLEASE KILL ME. )---------

August 22th EDIT:
CM has a new kind-of-placeholder website (: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 22#p218822

August 7th EDIT:
Nico sprite sketch: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 73#p215473

August 2nd EDIT:
Penny sprite art: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 73#p214573

July 28th EDIT - DEMO:
Image-less demo of week #1 has been uploaded! Please take some time if you can to read it and provide some much needed feedback (:
http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 62#p213062

November 16th (2011) EDIT:
New pseudo rant-y (hopefully not very spoiler-y) devblog here: http://caramelmokaccino.tumblr.com/



------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey guys C:
Remember my old project, Caramel Mokaccino?
Hiatused for ages due original writer not writing it at all and becasue I didn't really want to let it sit there without getting done, I decided to fight against my fear of writing and just do it myself on (some of) my spare time.

But because I'm so insecure and I really want to do this right, I'm asking for as much feedback as possible! Feel free to point out the things you find are wrong and if you could point me towards how to fix them, it'd be great. I'll be very happy if you can tell me what I'm doing right as well ^^ I really like this story and I want to get it done so maybe other people will enjoy it too C:

Please take into consideration that, even if I really want to do this, I'm a fickle person and I may drop this for a while in favour of other endeavours to do on my scarce free time (like doing commissions, drawing for myself or drawing for other things I may find interesting instead of writing this, or just , you know, going out, spend time with my boyfriend, play World of Warcraft, that kind of thing xD). I won't drop it completely, though (I still haven't droped any of the projects I'v ever thought of seriously, even if they haven't been touched in years ^^).

By the way, I'm no writer, and my mind is very... scattered? So this post,a nd probably the posts that i'll write klater on will have the ideas scattered everywhere and will be sometimes hard to read; I ask you to please bear with that ^^;

-------------------------------------------------

So, in case you don't remember or you don't really want to read the original thread, Caramel Mokaccino is the story of Penelope (Penny), a 18 years old girl moving back to the city where she lived as a kid to attend college. On the beginning, she stays in the house of a family (the Salviatis) that has been old friends with her own family, but soon she feels out of place in there and looks for her own place. To do so, she seeks a part-time job at the Caramel Mokaccino, a café close to campus that is owned by the older member of the Salviati family (the rest of the money for her expenses comes from her parents).
In college and at work, she'll meet new friends, and she'll get close to them and help them solve whatever issues they have with their lives, forming strong bonds with them.

The point of the story/game is to get close to the new people in Penny's life, learn about them, care enough about them to learn what's troubling them (it won't be easy), and form ties with them (friendly or romantic). It'd be friendship/love GxB/GxG, I think.

There are 6 characters you can get close to during the story individually:
Nicola (Nico) from the Salviati family, who is still in high school and works at the Caramel,
Anaís (Annie), a cute female classmate,
Ian, an older classmate, taking some classes with Penny that lives nearby her new place,
Franco, upperclassman and Class Assistant (not sure the name in english, care to help mee with that?), happy, polite and liked by many girls in campus,
Bárbara (Barb? She hates to be called 'Barbie'), Franco's classmate, also Class Assistant, smart and polite,
and Julieta, a cheerful and flirty co-worker.

....though only 4 of them have endings on the first playthrough (one friendship ending, one romantic ending) and there is an extra 'what-I-decided-it's-the-tue-ending' ending once you clear at leats one ending for each of the other 4 characters, in which you manage to solve the problems and become close friends with everybody instead of just one (or two) characters. I also planned to award extra 'epilogue' scenes when some endings have been collected.

The story takes place in 58 days starting on Penny's first day in college (still deciding if I'm going to write ALL of them, or just skip the days where nothing important happens... it seems like a lot to write D:).

-----------------

Locations have been stablished, characters have been designed for ages, and basic plot for each character (and their intertwining stories) have been set. I'm currently working on the first 18 days, wherethe 'first act' or introduction to the story as a whole and to each individual character's story is told, with a slight turning point into the second act happends between day 16 and 18.
I made myself a grid calendar in a big piece of paper and cut some colored paper squares to represent each character, so I could place a similar number of each acrosss those days, so I could get around the same amount of exposition for all of them (it was quite fun, to be honest xD).

*edit: I took a snapshot with my webcam :P Ian is red, franco is Blue, barbara is Green, Annie is pink, Nico is Yellow and Julieta is lilac.
Snapshot_20101129_1.JPG
Last night, I was building a small test for the days where you can 'earn points' with each characters and how those points affect some later days (still during the 18 days). It came iup nice, but also made me realize you could actually just get no points - or go towards only one character that has no first playthorugh route, so if that happens, I'll need to give a warning to the player (" Hey, Penny, you seem to not have made friends with anybody yet... maybe you should talk more to them?" or something) and give them a new chance of earning extra points to get into one of the routes before just defaulting to the 'alone' ending.

I've been also toying with Franco's route, which is my leats favourite, treating it independently to see how it should develop. I plan to do the same with the rest of the characters one by one.

Now for the spoilers, here they are the characters and their issues.
*edit: spoiler-tagged for further guard for people not wanting to be spoiled with everything!

edit2:
Disclaimer: Since this is an ongoing development thread, and I'm not good at writing stories, there are things that come up during development and discussion that end up changing the story, from a little bit to really changing this character's route completely, you may want to read everything on this thread and not just what's whited-out here, which was the state of the story when I first made this thread.
Further development has been made on Nico's route, on the very main character, and on Franco and Ian's routes... so far!


Nico
He's almost like family to Penny (their families are very close, even if living in different cities). he has had a crush on penny since forever, but also have been good friends since kids. He is the only character that is not 'obtainable' though the first playthrough, though you can get close to him during the intro... he'll just take distance by the end of the intro, no matter what you do, since he sees how Penny is a college student now and she has new friends and a new life, and he thinks he doens't really ahve a place in there. Once you have 'collected' at least one ending of each of the characters, you can access his route... where he pretty much helps Penny get close to everybody and solve their problems and everybody is a group of happy friends in the end xD he doens't really have issues of his own.
Ian and Franco
Their stories are close together, and also involve Barbara's to a point. They're the 'default' routes. Franco and Barbara are cousins (no romantic feelings, though) and decided to study the same thing, so they'er classmates. Ian came from another city to study and befriended them. The three of them became really good friends, and later on Ian and Barbara started going out. On heir second year, Ian and Franco were chosen by Ms. Vandenberg -a young teacher - to be her Class Assistants for first year; Ms. V. started to flirt with Franco and ended up in a relationship. Rumours about a teacher-student relationship started tyo go around campus, and ian and barbara were worried about Franco because of this. At some point, the rumors escalated and it started being said that it was Ian the one oin the affair. Franco wouldn't stand for his friend, and this killed their friendship. it also brought a lot of tension ebtween Barbara and Ian, and they also split up. Ian failed some courses because all of this and endd up decidin g to screw the wortld and take a different career path - that' why he's taking some 1st year classes.
Ian and Barbara are in friendly terms, though distant, and ian is very resented towards Franco. franco feels bad about all this but he's not doing anything about it. the relationship between Franco and Ms. V ended a long time ago (though she's styill after him), and she has threatened tpo ruin Franco's ccareer if he speaks up for his friend... and also Barbara's (the new Class Assistant),, since she know what her own issues are.
Ian won't speak up either because he still doesn't want to ruin Franco's career (he doens't know about Barbara being in the middle),a adn he thinks just by switching careers everything will be dropped... He's wrong.

To solve Ian's problems, you have to first figure out what's wrong with him (he's stubborn as hell), and find a way to save his ass from being expelled without exposing Franco (Franco and Ian get in a fight by the end of his route, not only because Ian has a grdge, but because he thinks (or learns?) Franco's cowardice is affecting Barbara as well). In the end everything is solved and Franco and Ian make up.
*If you choose to pursue Ian's friendship, you may help him mend his relationship with Barbara.

To solve Franco's problems, you have to learn about the shole story and make him be sincere about the whole thing (he's the type of person that will just look the other way and hope for things to fix themselves and not tell anybody or ask for help, even if there are some casualties). Then he has to confront the teacher and actually ask for Ian's help in the matter, making up with him.
Annie
She's 'harder' to pursue than the rest pof the characters, because she's very reserved about her life. Actually, she never talks about it at all, even if she's all chatty and friendly. She comes from an all-girls school, but she never made any close friends (or they moved to another city to study like penny? not sure), so she decided to be all outgoing and friendly when she entered college, trying to make friends with Penny first thing, the first day.
She has a young and beautiful mother, and her loving father died when she was a kid; they have lived together all by themselves ever since... until recently, where her mother fell deeply in love with a man and they have announced they'll get married. Annie resents all this and refuses to even get to know this man in her mom's life, and tried to spend as much time in college, or swelling at the caramel or staying at Penny's home as possible. Things get works, when The preparations for the marriage and the new life as a family start.
To solve Annie's problems, you need to make her talk about them, talk with her mother and make them make up.
*Annie's feelings are fickle, she's never been in love before, except admiration-crushes towards some of her classmates, or gushing over cute guys on tv and magazines. She starts fangirling about Franco with Penny (that's why he's a rather default route in the game), but as she gets close to Penny, depending on her actions she may fall in love with her. If Penny neglects her in favour of pursuing other characters and solving their problems, she may find somebody else that cares about her~
Bárbara and Julieta
This is the major spoiler in the game and why you can't get to solve everybody's problems at the same time (Nico's route) before going to this route first: Bárbara and Julieta are the same person.
Bárbara, and Franco as well, come from a wealthy (though not rich) family, that has some very successful enterprises. Bárbara would be the 'heir' of all this, so she was expected to study something that would help her run the bussiness. She's very smart and capable to do so, but her true passion is Literature. When she started college, she was sad she couldn't study what she really wanted, but then she saw Enzo (older Salviati sibling) open his café next to campus. She had met Enzo a few years before in some literary club/workshop, and she talked with him about her dilema. She decided to still start studying Literature, even if just a few courses each term, but she couldn't tell her parents and she couldn't pay for them.even if she had some money on her own, so with Enzo they deviced this new identity "Julieta", to take the extra classes and work at the Caramel to pay for them. The ones that know about this are Enzo, Nico and Franco... Ian has no idea. Evenetually Ms. V. finds out and uses this to threaten Franco against telling the truth.
Julieta has been the vent for Barbara, but she's getting stressed because of the double life, Franco's and Ian's issues.
To solve Barbara's problems, you need to get close to Barbara AND Julieta and realize there is a connection between them. You need to help Julieta when she decides to leave her house and eventually bust her being Bárbara, encouraging her to talk to her family about her true dreams and stop having two lives. (in any case, in the event Barbara wouldn't want to work on the family bussiness, there is always franco to cover up :P).
*If you decide to pursue Barbara's friendship, you may help her mend her relationship with Ian.
And that's the story C:

I'll post more about the individual plots and what I'm working on (and the problems/doubts I'm facing) later on, but for now I'd like to hear what you guys think ^^

Thanks for reading ^^
Last edited by Deji on Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:07 am, edited 17 times in total.
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Re: Caramel Mokaccino - Open Dev Thread- Feedback requested!

#2 Post by Deji » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:23 pm

Right, I forgot: I wrote a little part of Day One on Ren'Py some time ago and googled some pictures for BGs and doodled some image placeholders.
You can check it out if you want and tell me what you think of my first small attempt at writing ^^; (please mind English is not my first language, I'll get a proofreader later >>; )
carameltest1.zip
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Re: Caramel Mokaccino - Open Dev Thread- Feedback requested!

#3 Post by broken_angel » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:10 pm

This sounds pretty interesting, actually.
I don't tend to like slice-of-life games much (even though I do enjoy making them, har har), but I think this takes an interesting take on it. Finally, it's not all about you; it's about actually getting to know the characters. That's my favorite part of any game. C:

I can't take a look at the Day One bit because I'm in class right now (and avoiding doing my work...), but I'll look at it in a bit.

Random notes:
- Franco would be Frank in English, wouldn't it? Personally, though, I think you should just keep it as Franco. Frank makes me think of some hairy old plumber. xD
- I thought Nico was a girl until I read his whited-out description (just based on the name Nicola, which sounds feminine to me), haha.
- I like the idea of making some characters' endings only available after the first play-through, even though Nico's path sounds pretty lame compared to the others. Just because he's younger and is your classic childhood friend type, that doesn't mean he can't have problems of his own.
- As for the days, why 58 days? What's the significance of that number?
Regardless, yes, you should probably skip the days where nothing important happens, or at least fast-forward through them. Though, this really depends on if it's meant to be a straight VN or more of a sim. If a VN, then yeah, skip the unnecessary fillers. If a sim, then people should be able to play through those days like any other, even if nothing happens.
...By the way, I'm in awe of the effort you've put into scheduling everything. xD
- Also, just for curiosity's sake...why did she decide to go to college in her hometown? Does it hold some sentimental significance for her? Did she return there hoping to rediscover something from her past? That might be an interesting element to add to the story, if it's not involved somehow already.

P.S.: I would be happy to proofread. C:

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Re: Caramel Mokaccino - Open Dev Thread- Feedback requested!

#4 Post by Deji » Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:38 pm

broken_angel wrote: Random notes:
- Franco would be Frank in English, wouldn't it? Personally, though, I think you should just keep it as Franco. Frank makes me think of some hairy old plumber. xD
- I thought Nico was a girl until I read his whited-out description (just based on the name Nicola, which sounds feminine to me), haha.
- I like the idea of making some characters' endings only available after the first play-through, even though Nico's path sounds pretty lame compared to the others. Just because he's younger and is your classic childhood friend type, that doesn't mean he can't have problems of his own.
- As for the days, why 58 days? What's the significance of that number?
Regardless, yes, you should probably skip the days where nothing important happens, or at least fast-forward through them. Though, this really depends on if it's meant to be a straight VN or more of a sim. If a VN, then yeah, skip the unnecessary fillers. If a sim, then people should be able to play through those days like any other, even if nothing happens.
...By the way, I'm in awe of the effort you've put into scheduling everything. xD
- Also, just for curiosity's sake...why did she decide to go to college in her hometown? Does it hold some sentimental significance for her? Did she return there hoping to rediscover something from her past? That might be an interesting element to add to the story, if it's not involved somehow already.
Glad you find it interesting ^^

- My first language is Spanish, so we (me and my co-author - the ex-writer) chose names that would sound nice if we met somebody with that name in a class ourselves x3 And I think yes, Franco should be Frank xD

- Nicola supposedly works for male and female (at least when we were looking for italian names, that's what we found), though it does sound feminine xDD I''ve thought including jokes about it in-game, actually (if I can make it work).

- Nico's route isabout solving everybody's issues with his help, and you realize he's not the younger kind that has no place in your (Penny's) new college life; he's actually more centered than the rest of the characters xD;
His 'issue' is actually being afraid of stepping up and going after Penny, without worrying about the different worlds they live in. We thought it'd be nice if in his route, in the parts where he backs off and hesitates on approaching Penny, he actually does the opposite, changing the whole story (of course, penny still has to go after him on the first part of the story, but he'd be more 'present' and more 'active' than during the regular story.
We haven't thought about his route much, though, to be honest, so when i get to his route, I'll be carefiul to make it interesting enough C:

- 58 days was not a number we deliberately thought of xD We picked a calendary and decided hpow long we wanted the story to be
. We picked a date and picked another date where we thought it'd be enough to develop the story, and that's pretty much it ^^; It won't be a sim, though, so I may FF some days later on. I think is houldn't during the first part, though, since it's mainly introduction and getting to know the characters.

- She picked her hometown because it was the university her parents attended (also where they met the Salviatis), and it's quite prestigious, also she'd have people that are like a second family to her to turn to if she needed something. Maybe I should say that here in my country, people still live with their families while attending college if there is a university that offers the career program they want in their city (comon for people living in large cities), but they would move to another city if their original city does not have the career they like, or if they want to study on a more prestigious place. that's all the motivation behind it, really, it's very 'slice-of-life"-ish, in that aspect.



Thanks for reading through the post and for the long comment C: I hope you won't hate my wiriting too much when you get to read what i did of Day One ^^;
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Re: Caramel Mokaccino - Open Dev Thread- Feedback requested!

#5 Post by broken_angel » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:13 pm

The name thing makes perfect sense, and I don't blame you at all.
I feel that it's always best to make stories that are relevant to you, culturally and otherwise. :3

And your writing isn't bad at all. ^^

There are a few grammatical errors that can be fixed with a good proof-reading, but other than that, it was entertaining. C:

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Re: Caramel Mokaccino - Open Dev Thread- Feedback requested!

#6 Post by Sexy Yuri » Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:04 am

Oh I like the story so far. :D

Your writing isn't bad at all. :)

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Re: Caramel Mokaccino - Open Dev Thread- Feedback requested!

#7 Post by Auro-Cyanide » Sat Dec 04, 2010 8:49 am

Oooo~ It sounds great! I love slice of life stories, especially ones that are not too dramaish and have those sweet and bittersweet moments of life. It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.

I really like the idea of you working to get to know people and get a chance to help them. Will you be given a chance to befriend everyone, or will you have to sacrifice some characters to benefit others? I always try to evenly divide my time with everyone like I would in real life, so I usually miss out on people -.- I also really like Nico's route and it makes sense to me (though are you going to give hints as to what people have to do to get there?) He is very cute, I want to give him a hug already. His full name does sound feminine because of the a on the end, but it is legit so I don't think it is a problem. There are probably a lot of Nicolas running into the same problem.

I don't think you have to explain too much about her choosing to go to a university near a family friends place. It is pretty logical that you would try to be close to people you know if there is no appropriate place of study near where you live. It is common to stay with your family if you can where I live too. Well, I did while I was studying at university. (Perth is too bloody expensive). It would be a bit scary both for Penny and her family if she was just moving to a city by herself.

I'm not sure there is an english equivalent of 'class assistant'. We didn't have something like that where I went to uni. I get the general gist of what they do, but what is it specifically? Either way though I think class assistant would be fine to use, it is understandable.

Skipping days is cool for me. It is not like you ever remember every single moment of your own life. Some days are simply more boring than others. I would prefer you skipped a couple days then told us how Penny bought groceries and then sat on the couch to watch TV for a couple hours :) I think spending a quieter day every now and then between more plot filled days is a good idea though, I think it really helps with the pacing and gives the reader a breather to reflect.

Was the time scheldule board useful to you? I always wonder how people manage the plan multiple routes and such. I find it really interesting. I am so used to thinking in at least near linear plots that thinking about branching stories hurts my head.

The test ran well. Like Broken_Angel said, a couple little grammatical issues, but overall I think it flowed quite nicely. I am looking forward to seeing how the rest of it goes.

The art looks great as well, to be expected. The character designs are really nice and varied. The only critique I have is actually about the logo. I was wondering why the little ~ are hanging so high? I think they would look better if they where in line with the dots inside the 'o's. I also think the dot next to C in Caramel should be the same size as the dots in the 'o's. But that is probably not the kind of feedback you were looking for... (Way to be super unhelpful Stephanie >>)

Anyway, I look forward to seeing further updates and hope progress goes well for you since it is a very cute story. Still surprised you couldn't get a writer, but I think it is great you are tackling it yourself.

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Re: Caramel Mokaccino - Open Dev Thread- Feedback requested!

#8 Post by Deji » Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:16 pm

@Sexy Yuri: thank you! ^^

@Auro-Cyanide:
(long reply ahead 8D)

I'm happy you like it! We were going for those warm fuzzy feelings precisely when we came up with this x3

While you'll still interact with everybody on each route, you'll focus more on the one you're getting close to and the people around that character more, so you will neglect the others. You'll have to choose sometimes between going to see this or that character too. For example, if you decide to chase after Franco/Ian, Annie will indeed feel rather neglected and, while you'll notice that something's wrong with her, you won't know what it is exactly. She may find a way to find her problems herself while you're not there, actually, and this may prove true to other neglected characters in certain routes as well ( I haven't figured lout how exactly that's going to work yet, though); it's not like Penny is the 'ultimate key' or 'the chosen one' to solve their problems and that their lifes will get screwed up if she's not there xD;

Glad you like Nico! He's my fav character along with Ian <3. As I envisioned it, you *can* get close to Nico on the beginning instead of the rest of the characters: you earn points from spending time with him just like you get points qith everybody else, but he'll eventually move out of the way. When you meet the requirements to get on his route, the idea so far is that you have to get close to him in the beginning normally, and then, instead of backing off, Nico starts to actually get involved and be more proactive towards getting a chance with Penny. Other things would change, as well. The other option I'm thinking of, is that Penny gets the option(s) (that wasn't there before) of letting Nico knpow that he's not from a 'different world' or something because he's still in highs chool, and he, in turn, will get more involved, making him available as a route.
About the name, I think just people calling him 'Nico' instead of Nicola would do for him not sounding like he has a female name all the time; at least over here all the Nicolás/Nicholas are called 'Nico'.

I tried to put Penny talking about moving because of her parents going there and all that on the little I have of the script (actually put some more on that later on the script), so people that are not used to that kind of situations understand it better. The other people in the story that moved from other cities to study there are Ian, and Penny mentions her parents and Nico's father also came from different cities and met there.

I was looking for an equivalent the other day and found "Teaching Assistant". Over here they can have two duties: Be in class witht he teacher and help the students during class and help evaluate assignments and tests, or they can be in charge of the practical side of a class, taking care of giving the students assignments and helping them solve them, while the teacher gives lectures on the theory side (this happens usually in math and science subjects). We left it unspecified the career and the classes Penny and the others are taking, but the Assistants in this case take care of the practical side of whatever class they're helping with.

The schedule board I made for the first 28 days was SUPER useful, even if I didn't have much idea of what exactly was going to happen each day, it was easier to know that on day X i was supposed to focus on this or that character and could make up something to do with them and maybe use that day to give points to certain character, or give Penny choices of things to do where she would meet this or that character.... being a visual person, having it in colors, displayed all together (and being able to move the colored papers around) was really helpful C: I have no idea what I'm going to do when I have to start branching out for real, though. But I'll keep you guys posted C:

Once I'm actually done with Day One, I'll upload a new test; I haven't solved a little schedule issue I got there with the classes and the assistants that I need to solve beforehand. probably day 2 will run pretty smootgly, since a lot less happens, so I may be able to upload both days together ^^

About the art, most of them are old designs, so I may revisit them... at least their clothes (and make Nico a tad older-looking, he looks like he's 14 now >> ).
the logo was just a font I found pretty back then that I just wrote the name in xD I may improve it in the future, thanks for the critique on it C:


The writer issue is only because I really *really* wanted the friend I planned (and still plan from time to time) this with to be my writer! And I wouldn't have people I'm not close to or that are on a different wavelength than me to do this, so they would add this or change that to the story to suit their style/taste better, changing the overal 'feel' I want the story to have. It's hard to let other people fiddle with your 'child' when you're so attached to it ^^;
To be fair, I got a backup writer at some point, but they have a lot of other stories (that I like very much and I'm looking forward to see them <3) that they want to do first, and I wouldn't like them to feel like they *have* to write this for me instead of working on what they want to do. On the same note, I also want to do this by myself so I'm able to draw my own characters in my own story for a change, after drawing characters for other people all the time for work (even when I get to design them and I get fond of them in the end, it's not the same :P ).

I'll keep doing my best, even if very slowly. Thanks for looking forward to it! ^^
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Re: Caramel Mokaccino - Open Dev Thread- Feedback requested!

#9 Post by Riviera » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:57 pm

One of the things I liked the best was that it isn't as americanized as a lot of VNs seem to be. Most VNs I see are very north american, or very japanese. You really don't see a lot of european, french, spanish, british, mexican, italian, etc. themed VNs. It's a shame, too, since I really like seeing lots of different cultures.

The names make it seem exotic to me, since I've lived all my life in the US. I'm hoping there are even more tidbits of culture in there later on, like locations, customs, simple ways of living that people take for granted.

I really like the way that other characters can fix their own problems if you're concentrating on someone else. It makes it feel more as if the world around you is going on and doing it's own thing without you having to constantly be there to lead it along. I'm sure that's hard to do with a game... because I get the feeling that if you spend some time with one person, then go to another, and go back to person a... they may already be beyond you (or the problem/situation in question) and you wouldn't have realized it. LIKE REAL LIFE! :D
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Re: Caramel Mokaccino - Open Dev Thread- Feedback requested!

#10 Post by Deji » Sun Dec 05, 2010 7:41 pm

@Riviera: Thanks for the comment ^^

Maybe most VNs are either very North american or very japanese because they're written by people from USA or by japanophiles :P

Some stories I've read (I'm not sure I can say 'most', though, my memory is terrible), they don't strike me as 'very *insert culture*'; while they do have elements that may be particular to that culture, the cultural elements end up being secondary to the story and they don't substract from the immersive experience. I'm trying to do that kind of story myself. I won't put elements that are very specific to my country, though; don't like it that much to do that, haha.

I'm keeping in mind that characters, just like real people, live their own particular lifes (with work/studies, family, friends and acquaintances of their own) and it's not like they exist only when the MC talks to them :P I'm sure it'd be harder to pull it off if I was working on a sim, but on a regular story with some choices here and there, I think it'd be fine.
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Re: Caramel Mokaccino - Open Dev Thread- Feedback requested!

#11 Post by Auro-Cyanide » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:41 am

Yay for warm fuzzy feelings!

Oh yeah, that sounds pretty cool. Will give me a reason to play it multiple time~ So will the characters default to solving their own problems if you leave them alone, or will it be more like they will take path A if you help them and path B if you don't? Like the problem gets solved in both but to different degrees and ways. That would be pretty interesting I think, and more accurately follow what real life is like.

Nico is a cool name. I'm pretty sure there was a Nico on Home and Away. It sounds familiar... Anyway, I do agree he looks pretty young. I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing, but he should probably look a little older if he is nearly finishing school. Still cute, but a little older. The variation of routes all sound interesting. I think it would be pretty cool for him to back off at one point and maybe hurt your feelings a little, but something you or someone else does convinces him to take a step forward and try to be with Penny. That would be a pretty sweet story. I understand that he would be a little awkward about being younger then her. I think that is one of his most charming points. I read the bit where it says he feels he doesn't belong beside her and was all 'awwwwww'. I love childhood friend romances.

I think the way you explained Penny's situation with moving out of home in the test was good. It seemed like a natural route of a conversation rather then you trying to force the information into the script.

Teaching Assistant would work too. Either one is understandable in my opinion. That is the good thing about language, you can combine two concepts to convey a new one pretty easily, especially if applied to a context. I don't think we have something like that here though, but we have teacher's assistants in primary school which help teachers and are usually in training to be teachers. I suppose it is a similar thing but at a higher level. I think that would have been good in uni, I never had much contact with people above or below me.

I know I would be interested to see any methods you use for planning, but that is more for myself then anything else >> It is really interesting to see how different people plan things though since everyone has a different way of organising their thoughts.

I thought the typeface for the logo was super cute. What is it by the way (if you can remember)? I might go steal it :3

Oh yes, the writer thing makes sense. It would be hard to let someone else write it if they are going to change it. I feel the same whenever I think of it. It would make sense that you would want someone on the same wavelength. I suppose the bonus to writing it yourself is you know what is going on in your head, that can be rather hard to describe sometimes. I know me describing something usually involves me waving my arms around and making wooshing noises. It is a massive load of work to be doing by yourself though. We will all be here as moral support and walls to bounce ideas off. I really want to see this completed one day (so I can play it ><) so I wish you the best of luck ^^b

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Re: Caramel Mokaccino - Open Dev Thread- Feedback requested!

#12 Post by Deji » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:31 pm

@auro-cyanide: Thanks for the support and the good comments <3

I'm probably going to go like that for solving the problems for the characters.
The most obvious case would be Franco/Ian; while in their routes you get to mend their broken friendship while solving their problems, if you don't help them, they may solve their issues to a point, but they won't be friends again. I know how Annie solves her issues if you're not there, though solving Barbara's issues will be harder to deal with. It's fun to think of all that, actually, so i'll come up with something C:

I like the idea of Nico sort of hurting Penny's feelings, thanks for the suggestion ^^

I don't have the PSD of the logo with me right now, but I'll check the font when I get the chance to see it ^^

Haha yeah, it's hard to put some thoughts into words sometimes! I tend to do that kind of thing too xD With my friend, the one I plan this story with, we are in the same wavelength, so she actually gets my weird faces and voice tone and arm movements when I'm trying to get something across xD It seems hard be hard to do just that with somebody over the internet that you don't even know, even if they have really good intentions on helping you ^^; Maybe it works better when you're not too attached to your creations?

Thanks for the good wishes! I'll keep doing my best! ^o^

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, regarding characters having their own lifes and their own schedules, I tried to keep that in mind when planning what happens each day during the story, but when I was trying to make a more organized schedule, I realized that somethings didn't make much sense and that I actually had to mind each characters' schedule! Each of them has classes and/or work to attend to during the week that won't change from one week to another, so I needed to lay that down.

So, looking at the events I had already planned, I made the classes and work schedule for Penny, Annie (clone to Penny's, classes-wise), Ian, Barbara, Franco and Nico. Then I thought it'd be a good idea to make one for Linda too, and I realized that there should be other people working at the Caramel when none of them are working, so I made an extra schedule for them and ended up giving them names and faces xD They probably won't play *any* role in the story, but in case I may need them, I know I can use them now C:

I'm thinking about changing either Nico's or Penny's work schedule, though, since right now they have pretty much the same one. the idea is to let them have one day they don't work together; I want to make room for Penny to be able talk about Nico with her coworkers without him being there, and for Nico to interact with other characters at the Caramel when Penny is not there.

Edit: fiddling with the schedule around, I ended up sorting it out C: (Damian, Miranda and Gaby are the extra staff you probably won't interact with). It was fun to do xD; *loves making schedules*
caramelschedule.jpg
Day One is done up to lunch break now, and I should get it done an uploaded for testing, with some character placeholder doodles during the week.

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These screens contain a total of 3,193 words,
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Re: Caramel Mokaccino - Open Dev Thread- Feedback requested!

#13 Post by PyTom » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:43 pm

Deji wrote: (Damian, Miranda and Gaby are the extra staff you probably won't interact with).
Until the fandisc, at least.
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Re: Caramel Mokaccino - Open Dev Thread- Feedback requested!

#14 Post by Riviera » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:54 pm

*ears perk* Fan disc? This will be a pay game? Not that I mind, I'm just wondering.

I like the schedule system you're using.. must make things a little easier and better organized. It also makes me bemoan the fact that I never manage to do anything similar. I have story scraps floating both in my head and on every computer in my house. It's sad, really.
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Re: Caramel Mokaccino - Open Dev Thread- Feedback requested!

#15 Post by Deji » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:38 pm

If I have some stamina left after I'm done with this for a fandisk, maybe I'll make one, lol xD

@Riviera: I honestly haven't thought about making this commercial ^^; Initially, when me and my friend planned the story a couple of years ago, I thought about it, but right now I just want to get it done on my free time and have fun with it x)

I love planning stories! I make timelines, lists of bulletpointed events and making schedules! I just... never manage to pick all that and write something >>; I'm hoping this project will change that ^^.
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