Female Manga Body Shape.

[Skye]

Whenever I seem to draw girl manga characters they always seem to have a huge head and a chubby upper half and then the and then a thin stomach, humongous hips and like the smallest little chicken legs and feet.
The result is not pretty.

Does anyone have like an amazing tutorial that they know of for a complete art idiot like me?

Also need help involving a character of mine. Do you prefer the main heroine with long hair or short? and what type of clothes?

[Fawn]

It's beneficial to learn realistic anatomy to draw anyways, so I suggest just doing some studying on that if you want to get better. I made a tutorial on how to draw girl bodies a while ago based on the studies I've done, you can see it here: http://angeliccarrot.deviantart.com/gal ... 3#/d4ata9o I hope that helps, but it'll help the most to study realistic anatomy and do studies (that's how I learned)

About your heroine- Well, what is she like? Give her a look that suits her personality. Study favorite characters of yours that have similar personality traits to your character and maybe you'll get inspiration for her design.

[Auro-Cyanide]

Frankly there aren't that many good online tutorials for anatomy, I have found books far more comprehensive. My go to is a book called 'Anatomy for the Artist'. DO NOT try to learn anatomy from manga or anime or cartoons or any other stylised form. It's like painting yourself into a corner and will make things far more difficult down the road.

Fawn is right in that it is best to learn anatomy as you draw as your work will be stronger for it and you will see improvement faster. It will also allow you to fulfil more of your imagination because you won't be tied down to things like style.

Here are a list of recommendations:

-Tutorials: Can be good for learning some of the basics and for pointing out things you need to pay attention to.
http://browse.deviantart.com/resources/ ... y#/d2zn5k9
http://browse.deviantart.com/resources/ ... y#/d37hxqq
Books are also good, but tend to be in the pricey range. Mine was $70 but I consider it worth every cent.

-Reference, reference, reference: If you are trying to draw something and you don't know how, find a reference. Look through stock images, look to real life, grab a camera and take a picture of yourself (seriously, you have no idea how many weird photos I have or how many times I have posed in front of a mirror trying to figure something out). Don't just copy the reference, try and figure out what is going on. What muscles and bones and fat is involved to make it look how it does. This is a long and on going process so don't freak to much about not getting it right to begin with. The key is understanding will lead to stronger foundations and more free hand drawing.
http://browse.deviantart.com/resources/stockart/

-Real life: Drawing from real life is fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. It doesn't even have to been a proper model class (though these can be very useful). Get a sketch book and go sit in a cafe one day with a coffee and draw the other customers. People sitting down will still move, but they tend to stay still longer and are therefore easier to draw. The things you draw will no be clean or finished, but there is so much to learn! Not only does it teach you a lot about how things really work, it teaches you what are the most important elements to draw to capture the essence of a person, which is very, very useful when you move into stylised forms.
(The top part of this is one that I did at a cafe) http://auro-cyanide.deviantart.com/gall ... /#/d39yi54

-Study other artists: This is also very useful. The key isn't to completely copy them, but to understand what they are doing and why. How does one artist draw a nose compared to another? How their line work and colour effect the style of the piece. Break down there work and pick through it to find bits that will be useful to you. Maybe you like the way this artist uses light, or the way this artist has used texture. It is very common to be influenced by many artists and to drag little bits and pieces of the style into your own. The aim is to be influenced by a wide range of artists so your work evolves and is strongly yours because it reflects all the things you are attracted to. Look at lots and lots of things, as many as you can, all different styles and techniques, so that you can grow.

Remember that improving is always an ongoing process. Don't stress if you don't get good in a matter of months. Focus on drawing as best you can and learn all you can and you will see growth

[Sapphi]

-Real life: Drawing from real life is fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. It doesn't even have to been a proper model class (though these can be very useful). Get a sketch book and go sit in a cafe one day with a coffee and draw the other customers. People sitting down will still move, but they tend to stay still longer and are therefore easier to draw. The things you draw will no be clean or finished, but there is so much to learn! Not only does it teach you a lot about how things really work, it teaches you what are the most important elements to draw to capture the essence of a person, which is very, very useful when you move into stylised forms.

I don't know if it's just me, but I really hate doing studies of the human form clothed. I'm probably spoiled, because I had two semesters of Figure Drawing where we did nothing but sit and draw a bikini-clad model for 2.5 hours a class, but every time the model was absent and a clothed classmate filled in, I hated it. I liked drawing different faces, but I hated the fact that their clothes distorted their true shape. It's valuable to learn to draw clothing properly of course, but ideally it should come after you've mastered the base. I suggest asking a friend to pose for you in a swimsuit (or nude) at least a few times. It will be to your benefit (and many people like to see themselves rendered through an artist's hand, amateur or otherwise).

I ought to put some of my studies I did in that class up here... it improved my anatomy skills by leaps and bounds. Just haven't gotten around to taking photos of the enormous pieces of paper yet >_>

[LateWhiteRabbit]

I don't know if it's just me, but I really hate doing studies of the human form clothed. I'm probably spoiled, because I had two semesters of Figure Drawing where we did nothing but sit and draw a bikini-clad model for 2.5 hours a class, but every time the model was absent and a clothed classmate filled in, I hated it.

Ahh, your school made the models where swimsuits? At my art school all the figure drawing models were nude - young women, old women, young men, or old men. I concur that drawing a clothed person is a poor learning tool - without the understanding of the anatomy underneath an amateur can make a lot of mistakes with clothing. Even swimsuits distort the figure - like in Fawn's image that shows how NOT to draw breasts, a lot of beginners draw breasts the wrong way because they've only seen them compressed and pushed up by clothing.

We had separate classes for focusing on portraiture (drawing faces), so I focused on drawing the bodies in figure drawing - so a lot of my Life Drawing pieces are a little creepy with high detailed body, head, and hair, and blank faces.

Skye, listen to everything Auro-Cyanide said - she's absolutely correct. And I have to second the recommendation for the book Anatomy for the Artist.

I have it and reference it often, my favorite professor carried it everywhere with himself, etc. It has overlays, diagrams, and all the male and female anatomy you could possible want laid out in a very detailed way. It uses very clear hand-drawn muscles and bones over top of real photos that make learning anatomy very easy. I can't recommend it enough.

And if I could take TWO drawing books with me to a deserted island, the second would have to be Jack Hamm's The Head and Figure. It was one of the first drawing books I owned, and though I have owned and read dozens since, it still remains one of the best.

Proportions, profiles, how to draw hands, feet, how clothing wrinkles, hair, noses, lips, subtle differences in drawing men and women, how to pose and balance figures, how to draw feet in shoes, etc. It really covers it all in a concise and clear manner that still feels like it exhaustively examines each topic. I've been drawing for a long time at this point, and I consistently reach for this book at least every other piece I do. It's 50 years old, but its never gone out of print - I think that says it all.

[Skye]

Wow, I'd really like to thank you all for such informative replies! Never, had I expected something so detailed! All of these suggestions are amazing- though I think I might not take classes with any 'nude models'. I'm a bit of a sensitive prude. I've tried a bit with the photos and posture and I've got to say it's worked really well! Although I'm a bit taller than the average girl, and well way taller than most anime girls (the style I wish to draw in) the pose reference is a great help! A lot better than just trying to imagine it- also Auro this is when I go into mega fan girl mode but I secretly 'stalk your tumblr and DA and LSF posts, lets not forget CyanideTea and BCM art :0... not to creep you out or anything D; Oh god, I probably just did. Okay enough of my babbling (:

I'm going to try Fawn's tutorial and then onto those books Anatomy for the Artist seems great! I might have to buy it online- heaps of bookstores have shut down here in Australia, Borders, Angus&Robertson, and others. A lot of the local bookstores I see are nice though they don't seem to have a large collection. I try to support them when I can.
Do you know where I can buy it?

I ought to put some of my studies I did in that class up here... it improved my anatomy skills by leaps and bounds. Just haven't gotten around to taking photos of the enormous pieces of paper yet >_>

Please do

You've been great help (: thank you

[Sapphi]

Ahh, your school made the models where swimsuits? At my art school all the figure drawing models were nude - young women, old women, young men, or old men.

I haven't been to a real art school yet... I'm at my community college ;_;
My teacher said nude models were allowed, but that nobody who applied ever wanted to pose nude, except for one guy whose entire basis for applying was "I like to get naked in front of people" But yes, unfortunately, I have never had a nude model, or a male one besides clothed, fill-in classmates...

[Camille]

http://ai-ki-san.deviantart.com/art/Fem ... -195195034
http://sakimichan.deviantart.com/art/Si ... -193992722
http://sakimichan.deviantart.com/art/Fe ... -269247549

I'm not an artist, but it's still nice looking at these forms sometimes. *_* The human body is an amazing thing.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

Ahh, your school made the models where swimsuits? At my art school all the figure drawing models were nude - young women, old women, young men, or old men.

I haven't been to a real art school yet... I'm at my community college ;_;
My teacher said nude models were allowed, but that nobody who applied ever wanted to pose nude, except for one guy whose entire basis for applying was "I like to get naked in front of people" But yes, unfortunately, I have never had a nude model, or a male one besides clothed, fill-in classmates...

Why would someone applying to be an art model NOT want to pose nude? That's kind of like applying to be a baker but saying you don't do cakes.

Drawing nude models is embarrassing at first. I still remember my first life drawing session - all of us were new, and as the model started to undress, we all looked away or stared at our paper. Our teacher laughed and said, "You'll have to look at her to draw her - that's how this works."

It may seem impersonal, but after a few minutes, the nude person ceases to be a person and just becomes an object like a lamp or a table. You draw them with the same dispassioned interest you would a still life. Though occasionally you'll have a moment of clarity and think - "Wow! I am staring really hard at another person's genitals in a room full of people doing the same. This is weird!" Then you shake your heard and continue on.

Once it got doubly surreal, because I was sketching this young woman and she was reclined in a comfortable pose. Since as I mentioned I don't usually draw the face, she and I could talk without her disrupting the pose. We had a conversation on the rights of women in the Middle East while I drew her naked.

I think by far the most embarrassing part of life drawing is the models that come over to inspect your artwork after. It can be great - "Oh my God! You made me look so beautiful!" Me: "I just drew what I saw." Or it can be bad when they don't like what they see, though most are professional enough not to say anything. I had a friend that almost turned fruit punch red over a model looking at his sketch and remarking - "Wow, it seems I spontaneously increased a couple of bra sizes while I was up there."

I'm not an artist, but it's still nice looking at these forms sometimes. *_* The human body is an amazing thing.

It is the most beautiful form in the universe, which is why artists have been drawing and sculpting it for tens of thousands of years. It is the first and greatest form an artist must master.

[Sapphi]

You know, I don't really know the answer to that. I don't exactly live in a very artsy place, so maybe that's why. The models are also not professional ones, but are considered a form of student work IIRC. But people around here are very uncultured in general... (For example, the college library is giving away their books (supposedly they are converting to a digital format or something). Every time I get a chance I go over to the free book rack and pick up anything that seems interesting. Just last semester, I grabbed an enormous heavy pile of them while on break in my photography class. When I brought them back to the lab, I kind of made a joke about the amount of them, and this kid in my class was like "Books? Why would you want books?" He then proceeded to look through them and say stupid things like "Russian Philosophy? LOLOLOLOL DRINK VODKA" and generally just make an ass of himself. )

I totally understand what you mean about it becoming like you're drawing a piece of furniture. It's exactly like that! And yeah, it's pretty embarrassing when they come and see what you drew and you made their face look wonky or exaggerated the size of their butt or something There was one girl who drew our model with very detailed nipples, even though she was wearing a bikini top. It must have been strange for the model to look at a portrait of herself with nipples that weren't hers...

[Skye]

http://ai-ki-san.deviantart.com/art/Fem ... -195195034
http://sakimichan.deviantart.com/art/Si ... -193992722
http://sakimichan.deviantart.com/art/Fe ... -269247549

I'm not an artist, but it's still nice looking at these forms sometimes. *_* The human body is an amazing thing.

They were great help! One even led to a site called... Posemaniacs.com - it's pretty great, thanks Camille.

Lol yeah the image below is upside down- my mistake!

[Auro-Cyanide]

Wow, I'd really like to thank you all for such informative replies! Never, had I expected something so detailed! All of these suggestions are amazing- though I think I might not take classes with any 'nude models'. I'm a bit of a sensitive prude. I've tried a bit with the photos and posture and I've got to say it's worked really well! Although I'm a bit taller than the average girl, and well way taller than most anime girls (the style I wish to draw in) the pose reference is a great help! A lot better than just trying to imagine it- also Auro this is when I go into mega fan girl mode but I secretly 'stalk your tumblr and DA and LSF posts, lets not forget CyanideTea and BCM art :0... not to creep you out or anything D; Oh god, I probably just did. Okay enough of my babbling (:

I'm going to try Fawn's tutorial and then onto those books Anatomy for the Artist seems great! I might have to buy it online- heaps of bookstores have shut down here in Australia, Borders, Angus&Robertson, and others. A lot of the local bookstores I see are nice though they don't seem to have a large collection. I try to support them when I can.
Do you know where I can buy it?

I'm glad you found it useful! Super flattered you are a fan too ////>_<//// I follow everything I said as well because I want to improve and create better things, so lets work hard together. Nude live models can be a little embarrassing at first (I did mine in Year 12), but they are a good learning experience. I didn't have much problem with the women, but when the man came in the lady in charged remarked I seemed a little uncomfortable XD I hadn't seen a naked adult man in real life before.

Yeah, I got the book from Borders before it shut down (I'm in Australia as well ) but one of the independent book stores may have it, or Dymocks. Online is always an option as well. Good luck, and if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

[Nuxill]

For people who want art books but are tight on a budget, there are a lot of great free resources out there.
You can download almost all of Andrew Loomis' art books here: http://alexhays.com/loomis/
Free really old drawing books (doesn't matter when they came out they're still just as good!) http://www.drawingbooks.org/


Also no matter what stage of art you're in I highly suggest working with reference pictures. There's so many great blogs filled with this kind of stuff and more. Here's a list of some:
http://finaltrinity.tumblr.com/post/131 ... r-accounts

Edit: Alright I've gotten rid of the 'illegal' stuff.

[ScottySeng]

@Nuxill

Some of those books aren't legally free for download. Be careful as we don't allow pirated stuff on this website.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

For people who want art books but are tight on a budget, there are a lot of great free resources out there.
You can download almost all of Andrew Loomis' art books here: REDACTED
Free really old drawing books (doesn't matter when they came out they're still just as good!) http://www.drawingbooks.org/


Also no matter what stage of art you're in I highly suggest working with reference pictures. There's so many great blogs filled with this kind of stuff and more. Here's a list of some:
http://finaltrinity.tumblr.com/post/131 ... r-accounts

Edit: Alright I've gotten rid of the 'illegal' stuff.

You haven't gotten rid of all the illegal stuff. Andrew Loomis' books are commonly thought to be public domain, but that's false. In Japan the publishing company Maar Sha Co., Ltd. holds copyright, and Titan Books does elsewhere, and is in fact doing new print runs of several of his books in 2012 and 2013 according to Wikipedia.

U.S. copyright law says works don't enter the public domain until 70 years after the author's death - Loomis' work won't fall into the public domain until 2029, so we still have 17 years left before we can freely trade his works online legally.

Some of those "old books" you link to are claimed to be public domain but are, in fact, not. For instance, George Bridgman's work is still in publication and doesn't enter the PD until 2013 (1 year left).

And here is the big kicker - just because an artist's work is in the public domain, doesn't mean the books people are downloading are. Many of those books have their own copyright dates. For instance, if Dover is still publishing their book of Vanderpoel's The Human Figure the copyright on that specific arrangement of the artist's work and text belongs to them still. You may be free to download and use Vanderpoel's IMAGES anyway you see fit, but books can be a tricky matter when it comes to what is domain and what isn't. Dover itself often republishes books in the public domain, however. The jury is still out on whether you can copy someone's copy of a public domain work legally. I'm sure Dover itself doesn't like people scanning and downloading for free their version of the books they are still actively selling.

Anything published 1923 or prior is definitely in the public domain, free and clear. Anything published after that could have had it's copyright renewed, as is the case with some of the books you linked to.

You are right that a lot of the old books are some of the best, but you would do better just to link to books the OP can purchase legally. I know your intentions were good, but you can't just trust someone on the internet when they post something and say its public domain - you need to do the research yourself. A big hint is checking Amazon and seeing how many of Andrew Loomis' books are for sale in-stock and new.