Backgrounds - some questions for a newb

[Obscura]

Hi all. I'm working on my first game and still learning as I go!

Right now I have "placeholder" sketches for my characters and am just using some living room photos from google to use as backgrounds. A temporary substitute while I write out the game.

I'm wondering if anybody has some good tips for making generic backgrounds. What do you think about making stylized backgrounds from free stock photos? Has anybody done this?

I'm asking because while my character drawing is passable, I am extremely slow and lacking in the background creation department. A character might take me an hour or two, but a background of say, a bar, will take me about as 10x as long.

Any tips are much appreciated. Thank you!

[sciencewarrior]

Taking photos and applying artistic filters in Photoshop/Gimp is extremely common in free projects, and it's even used in commercial games, so go for it! If you search the forum, you will find lots of tips and hints.

Another relatively common approach is modeling the scene with Sketchup and then manipulating it with Photoshop. The advantage is making it easy to have different lighting conditions for the same scene. (although you can "fake it" by darkening a photo or changing hue)

[fleet]

Here's a link showing one way to apply filters to a photgraph using GIMP
http://herselfswebtools.com/2007/06/7-s ... -gimp.html

[Obscura]

Thanks for the advice! I'll give both options a try.

[SusanTheCat]

There is OokamiKasumi's awesome tutorial:

http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 46&t=14215


Susan

[Obscura]

There is OokamiKasumi's awesome tutorial:

http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 46&t=14215


Susan

Thanks for the link, Susan! I gave this a try but it seemed like it wasn't going right for me...maybe because I was using GIMP instead of Photoshop. The concepts involved in the tutorial did allow me to find GIMP-related tutorials that did use similar concepts.

Thanks very much for the link. I really appreciate it!

[nyaatrap]

There many filters to make photos into drawings. But be sure, there are two pitfalls filters can't handle.
1) Matching their perspective into your sprites.
2) Matching their contrast into your sprites.
I'm always caring those 2 points more than anything.

[OokamiKasumi]

...pitfalls filters can't handle.
1) Matching their perspective to your sprites.

Finding background images with the right perspective is my biggest headache.
-- Too many otherwise excellent background photographs are taken at Eye level, (looking downward.) This puts the horizon line at Eye level. Drawn images and photographed models have their horizon line at CHEST height (looking straight across,) because that's the only way they look in proportion.

Finding model images that are NOT looking directly at the camera is my other headache.
-- My characters talk to each other -- not the player, so characters that stare directly at the player look Creepy.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

-- Too many otherwise excellent background photographs are taken at Eye level, (looking downward.) This puts the horizon line at Eye level. Drawn images and photographed models have their horizon line at CHEST height (looking straight across,) because that's the only way they look in proportion.

I don't understand what you're saying. Almost ALL photographs are taken at "eye level". The horizon line in any photograph will be identical to the eyeline of the photographer if they were looking through the lens.




All the people in the above drawing whose eyes are at the horizon line are the same height as the viewer.

The horizon line on any character, or a photographed model, will correspond to how tall that person or character is in relation to the eyeline of the photographer or viewpoint character or the lens of the camera (which stands in for the viewpoint character or photographer). So if a model or character is the same height as the viewer or photographer, the horizon line will ALWAYS land on their eyes. If the model or character is taller, the horizon line is somewhere below their eyes - how far below depends on the difference in height. If the model or character is shorter, the horizon line is somewhere above their eyes - again, how far above depends on the difference in height. If the model is 1 foot shorter than the photographer (and the photographer is standing up straight and looking through the lens), the horizon line will fall 1 foot above the model's eyes.

Where you put the horizon line in a drawing depends on WHERE you want to place the VIEWER'S eyes in a scene. If the viewer is meant to be crouching on the floor, the horizon line moves down, if they are meant to be standing on a platform or chair, the horizon line moves up. The farther the horizon line moves from a character's center of mass, the more severe the change in proportion and perspective will be, so characters cannot just be drawn straight on (as is common for sprites) and placed too far off the horizon line or they will look distorted. This is because if the horizon line is above them, you are looking DOWN on them. If the horizon line is below them, you are looking UP at them.

This website is an excellent explanation of horizon and eye-line with numerous examples and drawings to illustrate everything.
Basics of Perspective - Horizon and Eyeline

If you have a background already and need to know where the place the figures in it and the horizon line is not visible, perhaps an inside room, you can find the horizon line by seeing where all the horizontal lines in the scene converge.

[Obscura]

Oof, perspective and contrast...I'm not even that far into those considerations for bg making. Right now it's, "I wonder what this filter does?!?"

Hopefully one day.

[leon]

If you haven't seen it already, check out Uncle Mugen's BG tutorial - http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 66#p162666

[OokamiKasumi]

I don't understand what you're saying. Almost ALL photographs are taken at "eye level". The horizon line in any photograph will be identical to the eyeline of the photographer if they were looking through the lens.

Not True. Amateur photographs are taken at eye level. Professional photographs are Not. Professionals take their pictures Dead Across to keep everything in proportion -- especially if they are photographing models. Unless they are taking a Portrait shot of the head and shoulders, the camera (the horizon line) is at Chest level.

Visual novel dolls are drawn exactly the same way as a model -- with a chest level horizon line. In other words, in correct proportion.

As for Location shots, the same rules apply.
-- Amateur photos are taken at Eye level. Professionals put their horizon line Dead Center of the object they are photographing, which in this case is a Place.

Amateur photo, taken at Eye level.
-- Notice the slightly downward/inward angle of the wall on the right side of the entrance, (by the display window)? This indicates that the camera was pointing Downward from eye level.

Professional, taken at Chest height.
-- Notice that the angle of that wall is gone? This is because this image was taken Dead Across by a professional, therefore everything is in proportion. Dead Across being equal to chest level on a living model.

Can't see the difference?
-- Look at the angles of the floor and ceiling. There IS a difference but it doesn't really show until you add a visual novel doll.

Amateur photo:

Professional photo:

Still can't see the difference?
-- Look at these.

Professional:

Amateur: Take a good look at that table on the Left. The camera was pointing Down to take this picture or that table would not look that way.

This is what happens when you slap a VN doll straight onto an eye level photograph.
Now then, how tall does this character look to you? Look at the table to get your measurements.

This is where that doll actually belongs.

Because I prefer to have my characters take up more than just the Bottom half of my backgrounds, I search for backgrounds with their horizon lines at least Chest level on my dolls. Anything else just looks Wrong.

[luminarious]

I don't understand what you're saying. Almost ALL photographs are taken at "eye level". The horizon line in any photograph will be identical to the eyeline of the photographer if they were looking through the lens.

Not True. Amateur photographs are taken at eye level. Professional photographs are Not. Professionals take their pictures Dead Across to keep everything in proportion -- especially if they are photographing models. Unless they are taking a Portrait shot of the head and shoulders, the camera (the horizon line) is at Chest level.

Visual novel dolls are drawn exactly the same way as a model -- with a chest level horizon line. In other words, in correct proportion.
...
Because I prefer to have my characters take up more than just the Bottom half of my backgrounds, I search for backgrounds with their horizon lines at least Chest level on my dolls. Anything else just looks Wrong.

That was a very well made point. And this is exactly the mistake I made with my latest backgrounds. Unfortunately I don't have the time to re-render those either..

[OokamiKasumi]

That was a very well made point. And this is exactly the mistake I made with my latest backgrounds. Unfortunately I don't have the time to re-render those either..

Thank you!
-- Unfortunately, angle and perspective isn't something people talk about much. I have no clue why not, bad background perspective is one of the most common gripes. The biggest culprit being: characters with Chest-level horizon lines against Eye-level horizon line backgrounds.

[nyaatrap]

You clearly well said what I want to say
I was trying to explain about is, but couldn't find good samples (also it's hard to explain with my English skill).