Sprites: poses vs outfits.

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Deji
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Sprites: poses vs outfits.

#1 Post by Deji » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:05 pm

It's relatively "fast" (and fun!) for me to draw extra outfits on a character, and I also think it's more "believable" for a character to have many different outfits for, you know, different days and all. xD (most people I know change outfits every day, so why my characters shouldn't if I can draw them?)

Now, having different poses shows dynamism beyond simple facial expression change. However, having many poses with many outfits starts being a pain, drawing the same thing over and one read trying to keep the consistency...

Considering making many outfits AND many poses at the same time is not an option... What do you prefer?

Many poses with only one outfit?
One pose with many outfits?
Alternatively: One pose with some small variation (like arm position) and many outfits?
A couple of poses with a couple of outfits?

(I saw once a character that had 4-5 outfits and had a different pose for each outfit with arm variations. That didn't allow to change the pose like you change facial expressions, but allowed some dynamism, imo. What do you think about that approach?)
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Re: Sprites: poses vs outfits.

#2 Post by Samu-kun » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:10 pm

In general, I think outfits should be prioritized over poses.

It's subpar for all the characters to be stuck in one pose for all expressions, but it's outright unacceptable for a character to be in winter clothes at a sunny beach, go to sleep in a suit, and show up for a wedding in a t-shirt. Poses are generally alright to skimp on, but you just can't get away with skimping on costumes.

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Re: Sprites: poses vs outfits.

#3 Post by Sharm » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:16 pm

I'm going with the "many outfits, one pose, different arm positions" route with my VN. I really like clothes and having different outfits can set the person in the scene more firmly for me. It constantly bothers me that characters in JRPGs or other similar games wear the same clothing to go spelunking in a caldera infested cave, climbing an ice mountain and saying hi to the local royalty. As for arm positions, it amazes me how just a small pose change can make a big difference in how expressive a sprite can look. I suppose this could be amplified if the whole pose changed, but I personally don't like drawing poses that much.

It is a question of what your story is though. If you have a story that takes place over a short period of time or in a limited situation like a private school or work, changing clothes is going to have much less of an impact. I'd do more poses for a story like that.
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Re: Sprites: poses vs outfits.

#4 Post by nyaatrap » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:32 pm

The main outfit (usually school uniforms, you know) can have several poses, while most other outfits have one pose.

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Re: Sprites: poses vs outfits.

#5 Post by dramspringfeald » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:38 pm

a healthy mix of the 2 I say. make plenty of Poses (15 to 30) then make skins and outfits for them. the girl posing in a bikini can use the same pose for snowboarding and the like. We like Variety and that's the way to go.
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Re: Sprites: poses vs outfits.

#6 Post by MusicaFate » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:53 pm

I'd actually think about when I will use these outfits in the game itself. I mean it's nice to have outfits, but if you aren't going to use them :< then its a waste. Then, if I feel there is a need to have a change in pose, then I will draw a pose for that specific sprite I guess.(Well of course I'd save the pose base for a different outfit...but I'd just redraw the outfits I want to use instead of drawing it for all of them ;A; ...)
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Re: Sprites: poses vs outfits.

#7 Post by Applegate » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:54 pm

It depends on the story; for some stories, it doesn't make much sense to have multiple outfits, or you don't need them. (If it is one day, for example, or characters are expected to be in uniform)

For other stories, yes, I'd probably find outfits rather important... but poses, too.

In the end, I write according to what I can afford: If I cannot afford an artist, then when I look for one I'll try not to make it a daunting task of eighteen characters with five poses and eight outfits each!

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Re: Sprites: poses vs outfits.

#8 Post by chocojax » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:03 pm

Imo, I prefer having many poses with one outfit over many outfits with one pose. When I read VNs, ofc it's more believable when the characters change their clothes everyday in a normal environment, but I don't pay attention to clothes as much as I do to the poses. Having them stand still the entire VN with different outfits just reminds me of a dollmaker thing. x:
(Though I agree with samu-kun, if the VN goes throughout very distinct seasons, it should be clothes>poses. I really do not want to see someone dressed up for winter at a hot beach, since I'd pay attention then. lol)

One pose with a small variation and many outfits would be good too. c: Saves time and still has some variation with both.

I prefer a couple of poses with a couple of outfits, cause it shows common sense for what to wear during what kind of weather and what kind of emotion the character's in without their expressions.

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Re: Sprites: poses vs outfits.

#9 Post by tigerkidde » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:23 pm

I think if the setting takes place in one timeframe or location (Die Hard, prison), then more poses over outfits.

If the content is varied or spaced over weekends where uniforms or armor may be removed, then more outfits over poses.

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Re: Sprites: poses vs outfits.

#10 Post by fleet » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:40 pm

There is a similar topic here at LSF on why VN characters rarely change clothes.
http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... =4&t=11866

Majority of opinions said that it was "too much work" for the artist.
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Re: Sprites: poses vs outfits.

#11 Post by Kuroneko_rg » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:46 pm

I'm forward both of them if possible, but if I have to choose one, then I'd say outfits.
The ps2 version of Higusashi had a curious way of handling this, as each outfit had slightly different poses (Different hand/arm positions).

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Re: Sprites: poses vs outfits.

#12 Post by Fungii » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:36 pm

Haha, I cheat with it drawing wise using layer groups and the like to make it easier.

But, yeah, if appropriate clothings is going to have to be a thing, then clothing thats priority.
Personally, I don't feel arm movement has the same feel as the entire pose shifting, though.

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Re: Sprites: poses vs outfits.

#13 Post by Auro-Cyanide » Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:14 pm

I asked a similar question earlier and got mixed answers http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... es#p191466

The thing is that there HAS to be a compromise. It's simply too much work to do both. I'm doing arm variations and a simple variation of clothes as my main priority. If I have time I may add more. So that's basically going to be underwear, sleepwear, unifrom and casual, with a couple characters having a specific outfit. I prefer doing clothes over poses because it means less redrawing of things you have already drawn and therefore more fun, but the arm variations will at least give some movement to the sprites, so I totally understand where you are coming from.

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Re: Sprites: poses vs outfits.

#14 Post by Deji » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:45 pm

Auro-Cyanide wrote:I asked a similar question earlier and got mixed answers http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... es#p191466
I just looked at it and it gave me some good feedback besides what has been said in this topic, thank you! (:

I probably should cut back the outfits and, when looking at the script, figure the body language of the characters that may need extra poses.
It shouldn't be *that* hard (as I'm the one making my own art) and it'll be a challenge for sure (:
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Re: Sprites: poses vs outfits.

#15 Post by Auro-Cyanide » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:03 am

Deji wrote:
Auro-Cyanide wrote:I asked a similar question earlier and got mixed answers http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... es#p191466
I just looked at it and it gave me some good feedback besides what has been said in this topic, thank you! (:

I probably should cut back the outfits and, when looking at the script, figure the body language of the characters that may need extra poses.
It shouldn't be *that* hard (as I'm the one making my own art) and it'll be a challenge for sure (:
It's always going to be hard to decide what to give up (especially since there will always be someone who will point out what you didn't do) and compromising can feel like you are letting something down. It's a bit torturous for me not to draw exactly what I imagine when I read a scene, but then it would be a comic and not a VN XD Not to mention that time will always be a limit on you. I would probably either go for arm variations or 2-3 poses if you are feeling adventurous and a selection of outfits focusing on the most obvious ones first. So for CM stuff like casual, uniform, sleepwear, maybe something dressy? And then you can always go back and add in extra ones you want if you find you have a bit of extra time up your sleeve :)

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