3D CUSTOM GIRL - Thoughts?

[LVUER]

For me, the advantage of 3D art is we can move it freely (dynamic movement) and easily add nice SFX (and let the PC does the hardwork... rendering it). From what I read, it seems 3D Costum Girl is paired with MMD?

So when we only need still image, I still prefer 2D art.

[Donmai]

Donmai:
Well, your images seem to be the reason why most people don't like 3D... The colors are over saturated

I have tested them in several monitors with very different results. On an iMac they in fact looked undersaturated. But again, what does it have to do with 3D?

and the humans look like creepy mannequins.

Sorry to hear that! But several "2D" figures have this look too. Anybody here talked about cut out paper dolls?
I love paper dolls. And I find mannequins very sexy sometimes.

[kkffoo]

I must admit, I'm finding some of the arguments against 3D somewhat unconvincing.

I really love much of the 2d artwork produced for games here, it adds to the pleasure of playing the game...but I've played just as many non traditional games here using a variety of media...and enjoyed those as well.

It strikes me that visual novel tools are really versatile, Renpy especially.
One of the first games I tried was based completely on non filtered photos..it was wonderful..I played a game which was based in a 3d abstract landscape made from primitive shapes...really interesting.

I do wonder if there's some fear about 'quick cheap production methods' taking over?
3d isn't really quicker, or cheaper, or less work...it is simply different.

[Auro-Cyanide]

I do wonder if there's some fear about 'quick cheap production methods' taking over?
3d isn't really quicker, or cheaper, or less work...it is simply different.

My issue with 3D is when people use it and treat it like a 'quick cheap production method' and therefore end up with results that look like such. It's a visual art form and like all others it requires knowledge of how art works. Where you save time with perspective and such because of the nature of 3D, you have to spend in lighting, colour and texture, probably more so than 2D. That step closer to reality means you have to pay particular attention to the details of the aesthetics. 3D isn't a shortcut and it requires just as much research and knowledge to make it look appealing. You still have to be an artist about the process. I see no reason why there can't be a 3D VN with visuals that rival everyone else, but that person would have to already have to have a good grounding in design and art. The computer can't take care of that for you yet Not saying that I expect Pixar out of anyone, but the use of model away from the default, careful use of texture and colour and a great understanding of light will probably have to be present before I stop having an uncanny valley knee jerk reaction. Aaaaaaaaaaand none of that matters if you can tell me a fantastic story~

Though I think that is someone wants to get into 3D they should look into proper modelling programs instead of relying on pre-made characters. It will do you better in the long run and will help teach you the skills I mentioned earlier.

[Nuxill]

3D custom girl models look better than the more realistic models used because those are too close to the uncanny valley for most people, but the shading in the game looks ...bad. Cheap. Lazy? It's not artwork, it's a dress up doll. If you could export the model and give it some good shading I'd welcome it with open arms. Unless you're shelling out big bucks for a program to light the thing and have a decent understanding of color and light theory it probably won't look very good though.

[Carassaurat]

On the topic of 3D models, I've contemplated making a template model that could be used purely as a base for drawing on top of, to make sure you've got consistent proportions and to work better with unusual angles and perspective distortions. It shouldn't be hard to allow you to move a few vertices here and there to customise it to your own style. Here's a quick test, just an hour's worth of work, mind, and without careful reference. It's just the idea:



Would that be interesting at all?

[Sharm]

Yes. You should make a new thread so we can discuss it at length and not derail this one.

[erinism]

Wow, getting a lot of feed-back; I'm appreciating everybody putting in their thoughts on this topic.

As for 3D Custom Girl; I used it as an example; I am aware that it would not make the best character models but I couldn't think of a 3D program that was as... infamous?

I feel like art is an important part of this medium (the 'visual' in the novel) probably the most important part since it's hard for a novel with bad aesthetics to survive, but I was just interested to know how flexible people could be in what they would enjoy artwise in a visual novel... I think I'm getting a good picture - pun intended.

[existentia]

Have you looked at MakeHuman? It's free, and if you're willing to spend a half-hour tweaking the settings, the results can be acceptable.

[Omnificent]

I think the problem with using 3D models is that, as mentioned, it really takes some effort and skill with posing, texturing, and lighting to make them not fall straight into the Uncanny Valley. The time and effort it would take to learn how to do them properly is time you could probably use to learn how to draw in 2D, which generally does not fall into that pitfall. Most people are actually far more forgiving of amateurish 2D art than amateurish 3D art, due to the more expressive quality of the former.

That being said, if someone who was skilled at 3D made a VN at the level of say Andrew Hickinbottom I would play that in a heartbeat.

[kkffoo]

I think artists are more forgiving of amateurish 2D art, in the same way that musicians are more forgiving of amateur musicians because they are interested anyway, know what it takes to become proficient and can spot potential.
3D artists are more forgiving of amateurish 3D art for the same reasons.
It's a mistake to generalise.

[dramspringfeald]

*pokes his head into the room*
"Hey there!"

Now i have no problem with using these types of programs for referential art but generally they always come off as feeling VERY dead and unnerving. They are like Soulless dolls staring into the depths of your work taking it's life in hopes to feed it's own.

Also it's a REALLY lazy way to go about doing your CG's...

So Don't be a Poser, Learn to draw.
*the links are in my sig.
VVV

[kkffoo]

Lol!
Lazy way to do your CGs
If only it were true.

If you want to go the 3D route then do so because you love it.
Same for 2d drawing.

That way it won't feel like as much work.

@dramspringfeald If you really want to get people to draw the more cunning plan would be to sell the aspects of that route which really are easier and simpler, rather than berating them and suggesting it's a long hard route but it might be worth it.
Folks like to think it will be easy, and once they get involved that's when they want to improve.
Some will stick at it.

[wakagana]

I'll agree to the extent that 3d models do usually look pretty soul-less...But...Saying using 3d is -less- work then drawing is a little iffy. It takes quiet a lot of work shaping the models and then adding all the details to them, and in terms of actual games, animating the movements is just as tedious as redrawing everything over and over again in a 2d animation clip.

[dramspringfeald]

Lol!
Lazy way to do your CGs
If only it were true.

If you want to go the 3D route then do so because you love it.
Same for 2d drawing.

That way it won't feel like as much work.

@dramspringfeald If you really want to get people to draw the more cunning plan would be to sell the aspects of that route which really are easier and simpler, rather than berating them and suggesting it's a long hard route but it might be worth it.
Folks like to think it will be easy, and once they get involved that's when they want to improve.
Some will stick at it.

that's the thing it is. I've been using Poser for 4 years now, It's quick, simple and requires maybe a days work on youtube to figure out. which for pre-viz and quick and dirty mock ups is fine.

However using it for Production (usually with no filters) is lazy, sad and kind of works it's way into the Uncanny Valley. If you are going to do "art" on a project Either Learn to do it right or hire/beg someone else to do it.

Now Drawing by hand IS long, hard, a pain in the bottom and you will loose it if you don't keep it up. But it IS worth it in the long run. When someone can reproduce your work to 100% what you did where is the joy? If someone can slide a scale and BAM! ART! what's the point? It isn't it's lazy and they should know better.

Wakagana - We weren't talking about full CG (Computer graphics) we were talking about Character graphics but you make a point. Fully Textured CGI when done right is amazing and gives your puppets a place to stand. If you were to go full CGI then using "Poser byproducts" would be valid but only because that's "Their" world.

However I've seen plenty just use Blurred pictures of IRL places and pasted their Poser-bots on top of it. it's just... wrong, as is dumping them into an "anime" setting.