Greeny's Guide to Art Commissions

Questions, skill improvement, and respectful critique involving art assets.
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trooper6
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Re: Greeny's Guide to Art Commissions

#31 Post by trooper6 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:58 pm

I agree with Taleweaver. I think you should volunteer to do free work.

Why? If you feel you need to improve your skills, you do that by practicing. Working on some other first time VNs will get you some experience which, along with practice, will help you get better. And if you keep at it, over the next three years you will get the good skills. And you'll get a reputation for being a good person to work with who is reliable and prompt and flexible (assuming you are, of course) and then people will be willing to hire you.
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Re: Greeny's Guide to Art Commissions

#32 Post by truefaiterman » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:00 am

Well, I've been reading the whole topic and I have to thank all of you for your contributions, I think I learned a lot about commissioning, which I've mostly saw DeviantArt-style (PM, pay in advance, have your pic, PROFIT).

The things that scares me are prices and contracts, since I'm awful with everything economic/numbers related. Is there a site where I can see examples of base prices and contracts? Can someone show his/hers? I doubt I can find the book LateWhiteRabbit linked in Spain, and I'd like to see examples from diverse countries.
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Re: Greeny's Guide to Art Commissions

#33 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:32 pm

truefaiterman wrote: The things that scares me are prices and contracts, since I'm awful with everything economic/numbers related. Is there a site where I can see examples of base prices and contracts? Can someone show his/hers? I doubt I can find the book LateWhiteRabbit linked in Spain, and I'd like to see examples from diverse countries.
You don't need Big Scary Contracts™ full of legalese. Just write something that clearly lays out the expectations of both parties, what is to exchange hands and when, who keeps the rights to what and what for, and what will constitute the completion of the contract. You want to be thorough, but you can seriously have a contract of just a few sentences, all written in plain English. Or Spanish, as your case may be.

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Re: Greeny's Guide to Art Commissions

#34 Post by Exaelia » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:17 am

trooper6 wrote:I agree with Taleweaver. I think you should volunteer to do free work.

Why? If you feel you need to improve your skills, you do that by practicing. Working on some other first time VNs will get you some experience which, along with practice, will help you get better. And if you keep at it, over the next three years you will get the good skills. And you'll get a reputation for being a good person to work with who is reliable and prompt and flexible (assuming you are, of course) and then people will be willing to hire you.
Consider me volunteered! ^-^
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Re: Greeny's Guide to Art Commissions

#35 Post by mugenjohncel » Wed Sep 11, 2013 2:46 am

I'm going to go contrary with Number 1 and say that Paypal isn't really that much necessary when doing commissions and I'm a very prime example of someone who has and is currently doing commissions left and right using exclusively only Western Union... and with a very good reason... also, in the Philippines... Western Union is the King...

While Paypal is very convenient (No it's not... and I have one), I still do not trust how very tightly connected it is to my credit card account (at least, in my case) and I'm still traumatized the last time my identity and credit card information is compromised (thank you 4chan! You bastards!)... with Western Union... all I need to do is send someone else unrelated to me (I got a whole pool of people that I rotate) to pick it up for me and BAM... transaction complete... so far, I haven't have any problem with this arrangement but yes... this does require some leap of faith on the part of the commissioner... :)

Long story short... do not be afraid to try other options and don't limit yourself to Paypal... I know that some of the younger people here are hesitant to do commissions because they don't have Paypal... Listen my friends... the world doesn't revolve around Paypal... there are other payment methods available so one can join in the fun filled world of commissions and stuff like that... I mean, I'm not doing Paypal nor am I even advertising myself that I'm open for commissions and yet I still get regular commissioning jobs despite very openly stating that I only do inconvenient business with Western Union... so if Uncle Mugen can get by with this so can you my friends!...

Edit:
OK... Maybe the reason why I can get away with my very inconvenient arrangement is because I've been in the scene long enough to gain some notoriety... yes, Paypal is a must especially for those who are still beginning... but yes, be brave and don't let the lack of Paypal account stop you from taking those baby steps...

Now that I think about it... why in the world did I even post in here in the first place?... :mrgreen:

Edit 2:
Western Union RULES!!!... also, have FUN... this is very important... I cannot even stress out how important FUN is...

"POOF" (Disappears)

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Re: Greeny's Guide to Art Commissions

#36 Post by Greeny » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:21 am

mugenjohncel wrote: Edit 2:
Western Union RULES!!!
How much they paying you? :lol:

The problem with Western Union is that it's not quite as international as PayPal. Sure, it is international, but in plenty of countries it's not really as big as maybe in the phillipines.
all I need to do is send someone else unrelated to me (I got a whole pool of people that I rotate) to pick it up for me and BAM... transaction complete...
There's another thing... How exactly does that work? It sounds, to me, a bit dodgy.
I still do not trust how very tightly connected it is to my credit card account (at least, in my case)
If this is a big concern, and understandably it is, you can unlink your credit card from your paypal easily.
Personally I only use bank transfer to top up my account, I don't even have a credit card. :lol:


In summation, you can do commissions using any method concievable of transferring money. Paypal, Western Union, Bank Wire, Bitcoins, Secret Cash Drop, Posting an Envelope with Money, Hand-Written I.O.U.'s, DA points,....

But ultimately, the person commissioning you is your client, and you don't want to inconvenience them by making them jump through hoops just to pay you. That's why I can only recommend whatever is the most widely used method.
this does require some leap of faith on the part of the commissioner...
You absolutely, under no circumstance, want to ask your client to make a leap of faith.
This is baaaad form. Baaaaaaaaad form.
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Re: Greeny's Guide to Art Commissions

#37 Post by mugenjohncel » Wed Sep 11, 2013 9:58 am

Greeny wrote:How much they paying you?
Well... uh... :mrgreen:
Greeny wrote:There's another thing... How exactly does that work? It sounds, to me, a bit dodgy.
First I'll decide which person will collect the money on my behalf... it could be my driver, my personal bodyguard, my secretary, my messenger or simply anyone in the office I can get hold on but never someone personally related to me. Once I decided, I will send his/her complete details (with consent) to the commissioner and the commissioner will send money via Western Union to the contact I provided. Person assigned will collect money on my behalf and the transaction is complete... while slightly inconvenient, it works very well for me and this ensures that my identity isn't compromised in any way... It took me months to fix the mess when 4chan had a party with my credit card... good thing they really didn't do much damage but still made me paranoid to this day...
Greeny wrote:You absolutely, under no circumstance, want to ask your client to make a leap of faith.
This is baaaad form. Baaaaaaaaad form.
It's more fun this way... :mrgreen:
Greeny wrote:But ultimately, the person commissioning you is your client, and you don't want to inconvenience them by making them jump through hoops just to pay you. That's why I can only recommend whatever is the most widely used method.
True that but given my current paranoia about compromising my identity once again... I'd rather not take the chance and besides, in return for the slight inconvenience of using Western Union... you will gain the services of a Fun Loving Retired Graphic Artist equipped with the best machines for the job who can pretty much accommodate any BG request not hindered by religious or cultural beliefs at slightly lower price than the industry standard (seriously, I'm such a retard for even doing this but it's more fun this way... and Uncle Mugen highly prioritizes fun first in anything I do... besides, I really can't demand much monetary compensation for something I've been doing for fun... :mrgreen: )

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Re: Greeny's Guide to Art Commissions

#38 Post by Greeny » Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:18 am

Also bad form in my opinion... refusing to divulge your identity... u.u;;;;

It's not a drug deal. :lol:
...is it? You're not operating some laundering scheme here, are you?


It seems to me like your use of Western Union is more related to your personal history with identity theft than anything else, which is understandable and perfectly acceptable, but no cause to go advising anyone else to follow your example.
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Re: Greeny's Guide to Art Commissions

#39 Post by Anne » Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:16 pm

mugenjohncel wrote:it could be my driver, my personal bodyguard, my secretary, my messenger
wow, now I seriously think you're a prince 8)

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Re: Greeny's Guide to Art Commissions

#40 Post by Dream » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:07 pm

Greeny wrote:It's not a drug deal. :lol:
...is it? You're not operating some laundering scheme here, are you?
I place a very heavy importance on my privacy and keeping my IRL and internet personas separate is a huge part of that. Aside from that i can't think my real identity should be anyone's bussiness.

It might not be a drug deal, but that doesn't mean people are ok with the "If you're not doing anything wrong, then why hide it?" idea. Some people want privacy and i think that should be respected.

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Re: Greeny's Guide to Art Commissions

#41 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:24 pm

Dream wrote:Aside from that i can't think my real identity should be anyone's bussiness.
It's nobody's business what your real identity is ... until you do business.

I completely understand the privacy concerns and wanting to be incognito. Heck, I do it here. But everyone on this board who I've done business with on any kind of official or money-changing-hands level knows my real name. You can ask they not advertise your identity, but it's really poor form not to disclose yourself to someone trusting you and sending you money.

Also, two other things to consider on the matter:
1) If you go by a nickname or handle and refuse to do business under your real name, some people are going to naturally assume you are shady. They are going to think you were involved in a scandal or something bad previously, and are now hiding that fact by not giving your name. Or they will assume you are protecting yourself from reprisal if you decide to split with their money.

2) It fractures your brand. I saw in another thread you want to become a professional artist. You want to build your brand. And your brand is YOU. It is VERY VERY difficult to make a brand out of a nickname, especially for a working artist. Your real name is what will travel around in the small world of studio jobs. It is the name you'll have on your business card, on your website - it may even be your domain name. It is what your legacy and work will hang on.

The only way to get the big corporate jobs (the ones that pay really well) is with your real name. You never know the contacts a person might have. A person may be hiring you for a small job, but might be connected to a larger company. It happens all the time. A recommendation for you is unlikely to be passed on, and certainly not going to be accepted, if you are doing work under an alias or handle.

Just food for thought.

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Re: Greeny's Guide to Art Commissions

#42 Post by Dream » Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:30 pm

Yeah, those are good points and a lot of things i'll admit to not having considered. I guess it's mostly just an emotional reaction to the idea of having certain contents linked to me and the stigma they might bring to my RL identity. But as you said it will cause mistrust and there's not much of a way to get ahead as an illustrator without having recognizition.

Thanks for the advice. As always it's a great help.

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Re: Greeny's Guide to Art Commissions

#43 Post by Hellboy » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:22 pm

Something I’d like to read about is how others handle corrections or changes during the process.
Some are pretty flexible, but others seem to expect constant changes.
I try to cover as much as previous detail and description as possible and try to stay around 4/6 main stages of corrections, but usually I end doing more (within reasonable) because I do want the client to be as satisfied as possible and I understand it can be hard for some to communicate visual expectations through words alone.
Curious about how others handle this. :wink:
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Re: Greeny's Guide to Art Commissions

#44 Post by pineapplepocky » Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:30 pm

I read through this thread and there's one thing you didn't mention that I feel is very important to anyone, and it can get worse and worse if you don't get used to it.

my tip?
YOU CAN SAY NO.

To any commission, to any request, you can always refuse. Even if it was paying, and you don't feel comfortable drawing something, it's completely fine to refuse. I would rather work on a children's game for cheaper than get paid more for drawing something ridiculously violent and pornographic (well, actually...). But my point is, if you are doing a commission, do it because it will make you feel good. Do it because you want to. If that commission is something that makes you feel like you're losing your dignity, or if it's so overly complicated you have no idea how to start, it's completely fine to refuse. They'll just find someone else, happy ending.

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Re: Greeny's Guide to Art Commissions

#45 Post by Hellboy » Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:33 pm

That's true.
I refused my second comic work and while the pay was great, it was something I was uncomfortable about. It's not nice, but I don't regret it.
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