Trouble with Prespective Grids

[Fungii]

So I need to create backgrounds, not just for my VN but as an artist in general. Obviously the groundwork for this kind of thing is a perspective grid. Problem is, no matter what I do, if I grab the grid online or attempt to make one myself, I'm just not...getting it?
I can't say what it is, I've watched tutorials and videos and even had classes on it, but every time I just get confused and quit.
Any advice? Or alternatives (bar using SketchUp, not that I'm disregarding that as a viable option, I just want to learn how to draw them on my own)?

All I can do right now is go into these drawings without a grid at all, which tends to work out for the better but I can't help but feel like I'm getting everything wonky (which I usually am) without it.

I've also tried adopting this method, but I get stuck at the stretching the floor part because I just can't get the right feel for the perspective there either.

[ketskari]

You can always take freehand sketches and then add a horizon line and vanishing points, and correct the perspective on another layer. I usually do something like that, because I prefer to control the composition, which is more difficult if I'm working from either a floorplan or a grid.

[Tempus]

Based on what you've said I'll say this: starting with a floor plan or grid won't help if you don't understand perspective to begin with. I would say the foundation of a drawn background (perspective-wise anyway) is a horizon line, followed by a decision on how many vanishing points will be used and where they'll be placed. My advice is to search out several tutorials on one-point perspective and start there. Here's a decent tutorial I found on YouTube, but there's a lot more. I know you said you've watched some already, but sometimes it just takes hearing something explained in the right way before it clicks. If you share a drawing after watching a few tutorials like that, people here will be able to give you more specific advice. And don't quit

[OokamiKasumi]

Believe it or not, I started making my backgrounds this way In Photoshop:
-- Photoshop Tutorial: Make a Cool 3D Room from Scratch



I later used SketchUp to map out larger, and deeper rooms--

--and pasted on my own textures.

-- Then furniture.

[fullmontis]

From your post I get the feel that you don't understand the basic concepts of perspective. I can understand that, since it is something I've had trouble with for the longest time. The answer here is to just study the basic math behind perspective and projection.

If you get confused over the basic theory, I can synthetize the whole perspective thoery in one simple concept: parallel lines in the 3d space vanish in the same point on the paper. And that's about it. Focus on that, and draw a lot. Then when you go back to some perspective videos it will make more sense (it did for me).

The cool and frustrating thing about perspective is that there are no middle ways: either a drawing is correct from a perspective point of view, or it isnt. This can be quite frustrating when you don't "get" it at first, but it also simplifies things because when you "get" it you simply can't do it wrong.

Sorry, there are shortcuts for this. If you care about doing things correctly you have to study the theory.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: I remember seeing this tutorial, I think it covers the very basics of perspective in a very down to earth way. Check it out and see if it helps: Nsio explains: The way I see the world

[Lady-Cynic]

Finally, something I can help with!

Ok, so first things first: snaps. I don't know if Photoshop has it (it probably does) but snaps is when you can only draw in the direction you set. A free program that has snaps is FireAlpaca, and even if you don't use it for anything else, get it for the snaps.

The next thing you need to know (and maybe the only thing you need to know) is ANGLES! Nobody ever broaches this in any perspective tutorial (that's NOT architecture related) is that you need to know what angles you're using.

The standard angles are 180 (straight line that is the horizon line), 90 (straight vertical line that works as part of the vanishing point), and your perspective lines 45/45 and 30/60.

Basic stuff :)

You only need at most 2 angles (90 degree angles don't count), because they are the basis of your perspective lines. You need to alternate between these two angles, one heading towards the v.p. from the left, and one from the right. This will give you your basic shapes in addition to straight vertical lines.

Angles in action

You don't have to use the standard angles though, and there will be times when you need multiple angles, in which case using different colored lineart will help you keep everything in check. The gist is to follow these angles no matter what AND NEVER CHANGE THEM ONCE YOU FOUND THEM.

Different angles to use other than standard

There's a more complex way to find what angles to use, but that's for more complex perspective pieces, and in the end, you do the same thing, keep those lines and never change them.

For a little clearer, step by step example, look at this mini tutorial/guide right here.

Hoped I could help, and if you have anymore questions, just ask. Perspective is the backbone to showcasing architecture, and it's something that they drill into us all the time.

EDIT: Sorry, the pics where in the wrong order, which would probably confuse the hell out of you.

[sendo]

As an alternative, try using this perspective App to set up your perspective grids. Just press F1 for info on how to use. Unfortunately, it's Windows only.

As for understanding perspective itself, I don't really understand the math itself, but I did exercises to train my brain to see in perspective. What I did is to draw simple scenes in perspective (basically training how objects in 3d space/perspective are drawn). I'd encourage you to try it, just draw some primitive shapes like squares, rectangles, etc in perspective (just following the perspective grids you've set up). No need to color or anything, the important thing is to understand perspective.

Also, stick to 1 point and 2 point when practicing because its easier - all vertical lines are parallel.

Here's some exercises I did, note the faint red line - its the guideline basically saying this is how high the object is. Simply use that guideline for drawing the rest of the objects. Hope this helps

[fioricca]

I have the same problem! I'm absolutely useless at environment art composition, I just don't know how to do it if you gave me a blank piece of paper and pencil. But if you gave me some reference photos, that gets my brains going... so I'd surf google/tumblr/all those image-sharing places for compositions I like and replicate them to a certain extent (the composition is similar, but I placed the horizon lines and VPs on my own so the proportion looks different). I hope to be able to create compositions on the fly in the future but for now I'm stuck learning from the ground ^^";;

[Lesleigh63]

Photos can help but they can distort the perspective, so lines you draw won't exactly match the photo. Other problem is the vanishing points can lie outside the photo edges, so you need to start with a bigger sheet of paper to place the vanishing points, then enlarge the centre working area when you have the lines drawn in.

[Disciple]

I'm kind of new to background, but I found this good software called Clip Studio Paint (Manga Studio before). It has this perspective point, and show only the important guide line so it won't disturb you from drawing. But the awesome thing is the snap tool. It will instantly guide your line to the vanishing point.

This is my first try with it (don't mind the messy color and lines, coz this is just a practice):


I made the outline for the background in only 2 hours, and that's because I'm not familiar with this kind of background. Give me a plain room, and I will finish it in an hour (given that it's not complicated with a lot of details)

The downside of the software is: it's quite expensive, around $400. I bought it on sale on $100, but you can wait for paint tool sai 2 which is only around $50.

[Rozume]

I bought CSP Pro for $40 O_____o

And Manga Studio 5 is the same program, which is $17 now on Amazon (I think).

But yeah, the perspective rulers in the program are gr8 and helpful if you know how to use them properly.

[Disciple]

oopsie, I'm wrong XD. It's around $200, the EX one, I mean. The pro one is only $40, if you're good with some lack of features. And, well, I'm not really good with background, but I kinda like, draw one person, and then sketch a room, edit, edit, edit, until I'm good with it. I only learned a bit about perspective online, but after seeing backgrounds a lot of times (and drooling over it), it kinda got etched on my mind. But, really, I wouldn't know what to do with drawing background without this snap tool (with a fine thin outline at that), because I tried doing that and ended up... in that trash can symbol sitting on the edge of my monitor.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, snap tool, beb. And references. And the almighty google.

[Green Glasses Girl]

Someone on tumblr (reblogged from a tutorial by user Pickles?) had a fast and easy way of setting up perspective lines in Photoshop. I'll repost here: