Background/Environment Artists: How long does it take?

[ameliori]

I am no good at drawing environments and I've always been intimidated by it. Buuut I suppose I must soon enough. I've always wondered though, how long does it take to finish a piece from concept to final? What is the industry-standard schedule of gathering references and submitting to the client for approval? How different is the time frame between illustrations and character design?

For example in a character design, it usually takes 3-4 hours for me to find references and make sketches. Then another 6 hours doing the anatomy. It takes anywhere from another 6-8 hours to render that (I'm slow, I know ), so I was wondering if environments take the same time or longer. Thanks guys!

[Auro-Cyanide]

It really depends on the artist, subject matter and style they are using. I average between 6-10 hours I guess. Before I learnt the basics of perspective backgrounds could take me MUCH longer

Like, this took me 4-5 hours to do:


This was about 6 hours:


This was more like 12 hours because of lineart.


Generally sprites and backgrounds tend to even out for me. Just as there are easy and complicated backgrounds there are easy and complicated sprites.

I'm not sure what the industry standards are within VNs since I haven't worked with them. From what I've seen of game environment design outside of that is that artists tend to spend 30 min to 1 hour thumbnailing paintings for approval before sinking upwards of 20 hours in a piece, but that's generally refering to pretty good artists like http://tyleredlinart.deviantart.com/.

[Tempus]

As Auro said, it depends on the artist, subject and style. I'd also add that whether or not the subject and style is the artist's forte also plays a major role, as well as the artist's level of motivation, and the level of quality and detail they're going for. If I get part way through a BG and it doesn't seem to be working out or my computer is dying under the load then my morale begins to suffer and things take longer.

It's hard to say what the industry standard is because in the game/film industry the person designing the environment usually isn't the person creating the final art assets that you see. That is, they hire someone for a bunch of concepts and iterate on them, then other people (illustrators, 3D modelers, texture artists, etc.) take that concept and fully realize it. In the case of Auro and I (and all BG artists I know on this board), we're designing *and* creating the final work. So it's effectively the role of a concept artist and illustrator combined. I would probably be about five times faster if I didn't design my own BGs since that's where most of the work is for me. (As I understand, the VN industry in Japan combines these roles too but I'm not aware of their turnaround time.)

My turnaround varies from 2 hours to 20+ hours, with most of my BGs probably falling within the 6 - 18 hour range. (If you want examples of the kind of work I do in that time, check out my dA. I don't wanna spam the thread too much.) I should also note that, aside from occasional thumbnails (for personal use), I don't draw. I'm mainly a 3D artist (though I do paint over my renders sometimes.) This means I generally can't use indication — everything is explicitly modelled. It has advantages and disadvantages as far as time is concerned. Duplicating an object, rotating it, moving it, and so on costs nothing. I find it's relatively rare that I benefit too much from this, however. BGs that involve a lot of straight lines tend to be easiest for me, whereas things with a lot of complex curves tend to take a little longer.

I'd say my time roughly breaks down like this:

• 5% Gathering references / formulating idea in my head of what the BG is.
• 85% Modelling & designing (I tend to know the overall layout of big stuff before I start, but I design the rest as I go.)
• 10% Adjustments / paintover in Photoshop. Sometimes this is longer if I'm working with a not-so-good render.

This took me 2-3 hours...


...but I've got another BG that's 2700x1080 with a lot of details and design iteration that took me over 36 hours. I can't share it right now, but I'll say it's sort of fastasy-esque.

My suggestion would be to not worry about your turnaround time just yet. Focus on learning how to do what you want and taking it to the standard you desire. Which is not to say turnaround time isn't an important factor, but it is one factor of several. First you get better, then you get faster.

[sendo]

It really depends on the artist, subject matter and style they are using.

I'd also add that whether or not the subject and style is the artist's forte also plays a major role, as well as the artist's level of motivation, and the level of quality and detail they're going for.

Pretty much sums up what I want to say. But I just thought I'd throw my own anyway.

On average I take around 8-12 hours for a complex BG. Since I partly work in 3D, I take less time if I'm doing something that I have models for already. For example, I've modeled quite a bit of things you will find in a common modern house. So when I'm asked to do a modern bedroom bg, all I gotta do is to grab existing models and arrange them, use different textures/materials, and edit the models a bit. One BG I did was set in ancient Persia and I didn't have any models that fit that time period so I had to model almost everything from scratch. I ended up taking way more time, but the good thing is I now have some historical models in my repository.

I spend the bulk of my time in paint-over and touchups because most of my 3D renders are not that good. It's a compromise — I could use all the fancy rendering settings but the rendering will take longer, or I can just use basic rendering (which takes a few minutes or seconds sometimes) to get the overall scene together and paint over it. And it's also a stylistic choice — I don't want my BGs to look so realistic.

My workflow looks like this:

• 20% Reference hunting
• 30% Blender 3D <--- once i have a basic render, I just slap some photoshop filters so it looks good overall and send for approval, this way any changes can easily be fixed
• 50% Photoshop <--- sit down and paint paint paint!

I'm not aware of an industry standard for the VN scene. But if it's the general game scene, then clients would expect you to produce something within a day or two sometimes just hours, especially if you're aiming for Triple A studios.

My suggestion would be to not worry about your turnaround time just yet. Focus on learning how to do what you want and taking it to the standard you desire. Which is not to say turnaround time isn't an important factor, but it is one factor of several. First you get better, then you get faster.

Couldn't have said it any better myself. I got caught up with 'I need to do this fast!' when I started out (because of watching pros do their speedpaintings). But I only churned out ugly, half-baked paintings. Speed is a just a by-product of training and experience ^-^

[ameliori]

Thanks to everyone's replies!

My suggestion would be to not worry about your turnaround time just yet. Focus on learning how to do what you want and taking it to the standard you desire. Which is not to say turnaround time isn't an important factor, but it is one factor of several. First you get better, then you get faster.

Couldn't have said it any better myself. I got caught up with 'I need to do this fast!' when I started out (because of watching pros do their speedpaintings). But I only churned out ugly, half-baked paintings. Speed is a just a by-product of training and experience ^-^

Oh definitely good advice. I just thought to ask so I can realistically set a benchmark. If it takes a pro 2-3 hours to do a simple background, then realistically, I'll probably take 6-8 since I'm just teaching myself the trade at the moment. Not only that, I have the tendency to fuss over something for days, so I want to make sure I'm not wasting too much time on one artwork and get ready to move on to the next (quality aside) and build mileage.

Also.. for my next project, I am calculating how long it will take if I make the backgrounds myself vs. hiring another artist. Pros and cons and all that.

Based on your replies, a general rule of thumb is 1-3 work days per mid to complex bg, taking that there aren't any major revisions from the client.

Expertise, complexity, mood and stylization (and occassionally PC crashes) are factors in play as well.

It's hard to say what the industry standard is because in the game/film industry the person designing the environment usually isn't the person creating the final art assets that you see. That is, they hire someone for a bunch of concepts and iterate on them, then other people (illustrators, 3D modelers, texture artists, etc.) take that concept and fully realize it. In the case of Auro and I (and all BG artists I know on this board), we're designing *and* creating the final work. So it's effectively the role of a concept artist and illustrator combined. I would probably be about five times faster if I didn't design my own BGs since that's where most of the work is for me. (As I understand, the VN industry in Japan combines these roles too but I'm not aware of their turnaround time.)

That's an interesting take on an artist's workflow. I didn't really think of that. In essence, we're combining two different disciplines.

A question to everyone in the thread: If there is a separate concept artist for a project, is it preferable for you artistically(tastes)/professionally(money-wise)? How much of your current workflow would change? Will you consider changing your rates or agree to lower rates just because another artist is around? And what are your expectations from a concept artist overseeing your work?

I'm just asking to get an idea how things might change working with another artist. I'm sure it's going to be a bit similar for character designers working under a concept artist.

P.S. You guys are all amazing. I checked all your works and I am blown away! I have a long way to go! *gulp*