How do these 3d Models look for a visual novel?

[justcolorado]

I can't draw well, so I am trying to use 3d models for a VN.
(3d Models rendered to look like 2d)

No matter what I do they never seem to look as good as real art
and a lot of them are outright freaky looking uncanny valley horror.
Here is my latest.
I have been looking at them so long I can't tell if they look good or bad anymore.

How do these look?
Are they good enough.
Which model came out better the one in red or the one in white.

[gekiganwing]

In my opinion, human characters portrayed with 3D graphics look better if they have exaggerated, cartoonish anatomy. I prefer the look of 3D characters which have clearly unrealistic proportions. I think that when I look at non-photorealistic 3D characters, I'm more willing to ignore an eye that looks glassy, or a mouth that looks too perfect.

Justcolorado, I don't know if you created the character which is your form icon. However, I like this drawing better because she has an implausibly thin neck.

[netravelr]

For me, I like the body and hair in general, but the faces look strange but I can't exactly but my finger on what it is but for what it's worth I think the second one looks better in terms of face, but I like the hair more on the first one. I agree with gekiganwing that the forum icon looks better imo.

[MoonByte]

For me, I like the body and hair in general, but the faces look strange but I can't exactly but my finger on what it is but for what it's worth I think the second one looks better in terms of face, but I like the hair more on the first one. I agree with gekiganwing that the forum icon looks better imo.

I know what you mean.
I think, for me it's the mouth. It is too tiny, it's barely wider than the nose which increases the uncanniness by a hundred.
Especially in the third picture, where she pouts (don't know the proper translation, in german we call it "Schnute ziehen"), she looks really weird since the mouth just moves to the right without doing much else, since it is already so small.

But apart from that, she looks fine.
Depending on the style you want to go for, you may of course maybe consider looking for some more toonish shaders, especially if your backgrounds are gonna be kind of flat. But she looks fine to me and you have a great sense for body posing.

[fleet]

@justcolorado,
Sending you a PM.
Very respectfully,
fleet

[SexBomb]

I can't draw well, so I am trying to use 3d models for a VN.
(3d Models rendered to look like 2d)

Hi, justcolorado,

If you are more interested in producing a 2D VN but don't have the illustration abilities, is there any reason you don't feel comfortable tracing your 3D models? They look really good, so I don't imagine it would be much work to pose and trace them to create your own 2D sprites. If you are the one that modeled them, it shouldn't be a problem... a lot of artists use short cuts like this, to varying degrees and with varying purpose.

If you're dedicated to 3D however, I think your models look fine. I have always been more interested in 2D myself, but I like the cell-shaded anime style of these. I think they could work really well for a VN, especially if you included some minor animation.

[Donmai]

Warning: long text written by a non-English speaker. Please, be patient

(If you had shown your art without saying how you made it, people would make very different comments, I have no doubt. If you mention "3D" then you better have the best image of the world, or you are fired. ) You said you cannot draw. Well that's a problem but your results are good, you are up to a very good start. I wouldn't post an image with that BIG blank spaces, though. Even if you can not draw, you should read some books on illustration and photography to learn a bit of composition and presentation techniques .

You didn't say what software you're using (I suppose it's DAZ Studio). The way the figure looks, it seems you're not using lights (looks like the only light hitting your model is the camera headlamp). Adding at least one light to your scene will give more life to your model, and shadows will enhance it even more. Try to avoid using default settings in your images. Default settings are intended for quickly assembling and testing scenes, not for final renders. Try to understand how to use light and shadows, and how to adjust surface properties and cameras.

Here is how I usually create a toon render (I'm using DAZ Studio and 3D Universe's "Toon Martian", a white primitive plane (it seems to be gray, but I swear it's diffuse color is white ), and a distant light. To position lights in Studio you can select the light in the camera menu and "look through" the light. Then you right-click on the orbit tool and drag to position your light while "looking through it". I put the light up and to the right and a little to the front of the figure, so it illuminates the martian's face while throwing some shadows on it. To activate shadows, select the light on the scene tab and then, on the parameters tab, click on the light group and change shadows from None to Raytraced.

I like to use the pwToon shaders by PoseWorks. There are several toon settings in the pack, but I like to use the "architectural" setting as a base for my experiments. To apply a shader, select your model on the scene tab and all it's surfaces on the surface's tab. Then double click the shader's icon, while holding down the control key, to keep the model's texture maps in place. After applying the shader, our martian will render like this:

I went to the surfaces tab and changed the martian eyes' shading color to a lighter blue, and gave a light yellow to his teeth. The other surfaces seemed to be good. This is the new render:

Time to pose our martian. Here he just discovered there's someone aiming a camera at him.

You don't have to render everything. Here the martian is holding a blank white square.

Using an image editing program, I've added some text and a border to the square.

[justcolorado]

Thank you everyone for your input and great suggestions.

The model on my profile is also a 3d model I can use.
I really like that one, but there are not many things compatible with it.

The models I used in the example are compatible with a lot of third party content
(Morphs, Poses, Animations, Clothes, etc.)

Yes I used Daz Studio. The technique I used was this:

First, I imported a .OBJ file of a model that I thought had a good stylized proportions
The .obg I used was a Miku Miku Dance model (example of MMD Models - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG2dBF9dRMQ)
I shaped G2F model in daz to match those proportions
I was able to get exact proportions on the head size and body,
but for the face I could not with any of the settings or morphs I could find from daz.

Then I switched out all of the 3d shaders with "Visual Style Shaders" (from Daz Marketplace)
I rendered in Daz with the default rendering and that is what I posted.
I have not tried the PWToon shaders yet. I will try that next.
I like the effect you got with the PWToon shaders.

I tried rendering with lights.
It had an interesting effect, but I thought it made it look 3d again

I did some new ones today not sure if they are getting better or worse.

Here was what the model from yesterday looked like when I used a light

[Donmai]

If you are trying to give your render a flat look, then it's a matter of taste. The visual style shaders are intended to give your render an airbrushed appearance, that means it will try to enhance the illusion of volume and light and shadows. Personally, I believe your last render is looking very good. I would only try it with stronger outlines.
No matter what you do, if you mention 3D, people will criticize your work heavily, with or without a reason. They will even tell you things like

I think, for me it's the mouth. It is too tiny, it's barely wider than the nose which increases the uncanniness by a hundred.

It makes me smile when we're talking about anime style figures. Maybe someone will tell you the eyes are too big, or the chin is too pointy .
You will have to live with that.

[SundownKid]

Personally, I just feel like the style of the 3D model seems dated in terms of looks which is why people think it looks uncanny.

Compare, say, an Overwatch character's 3D model. It's still somewhat anime esque and cartoony, but it looks a lot more like a modern art style or something that could be in a Pixar movie.

Whereas your model looks like some 1990s 3D animation, too doll like. It's not the shading so much as needing some artstyle changes to feel "current" so people aren't turned away.

The thing about drawings is that it's a lot harder for an anime art style to feel dated than a 3D one. Though definitely possible.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

Personally, I just feel like the style of the 3D model seems dated in terms of looks which is why people think it looks uncanny.

Compare, say, an Overwatch character's 3D model. It's still somewhat anime esque and cartoony, but it looks a lot more like a modern art style or something that could be in a Pixar movie.

Whereas your model looks like some 1990s 3D animation, too doll like. It's not the shading so much as needing some artstyle changes to feel "current" so people aren't turned away.

It's a matter of goals. In the 1990s, the big push with 3D models was to constantly pursue realism. In the aughts and teens of the 21st century, the industry has pretty much achieved photorealism with the technology, so there has been a larger movement towards stylized designs to differentiate properties and artists.

Because of the long march towards realism, realistic models are always being done just a bit better each time. The more stylized a 3D model, the more time-less it tends to be, because it is influenced by design principles and an individual artist's tastes.

The more realistic hair is the only thing I see in JustColorado's latest renders that are hurting the presentation (IMHO). More stylized hair like on the Overwatch model Sundownkid linked to (or JustColorado's own avatar picture) would better serve the flat illustrated look if that is what you are going for.

[justcolorado]

OK I was also curious about what the model on my avatar would look like rendered flat.
I was avoiding even testing it, because that particular model is the hardest one to work with.
It is incompatible with almost everything else that I use.
But here is what it looks like rendered in Full 3d and Rendered Flat.

Is she the best one?

[justcolorado]

Just an update, I haven't used any of those renders. They look OK but not good enough for me to commit the hundreds of hours of work that go into publishing a novel on them.

I have been experimenting with some cel shaders in UE4 and was able to get much closer to a hand drawn effect. I will try it again with a model with stylized proportions. I can get the images back out of UE4 as a CG or Video no problem. but I haven't figured out a way to get it out of UE4 with a transparent background to use as a sprite without editing it in photoshop.



If you want to see more screenshots or the settings I used, I showed it in a blog post on my site:
http://www.repulse.com/ue4-character-ce ... rendering/

[Mammon]

Personally I never really felt bothered by 3D sprites in VN (unlike their use in anime), I think they are a good way to create more poses and outfits for a character without having to make a new sprite from scratch thus allowing a VN with a great variety of those to be made more easily (from what I understand with what little I know of CGI). I usually don't see any more Uncanny valley effect in them as I see between the artstyle of 2D sprites and the backgrounds normally, in fact. So my opinion here may differ greatly from the rest of your audience.

That said, I think your models, both the earliest ones and your newest addition look fine to me, with the exception of the blond pigtails one. Her eyes are so to the side of her face that she looks like a herbivore such as a cow. With the new one I actually have more of a problem due to her lightning than the old models, as she has an impossibly bright reflection almost suggesting her skin is metallic, and the inside of her clothes are white instead of a dark shade. Does she have a lightbulb hidden in her cleavage?

[indoneko]

I actually like your older model (the semi realistic ones) than the new ones (that twintail girl just looks creepy to me). If only you could make the model retain some of it's 'semi-realistic' body type while carefully stylizing the head to make it more anime-ish, then it would be perfect. Perhaps something like this example... a 3D model of Asahina Mikuru that I found on the net, rendered with Maxwell plugin.