Using SAI2 for background drawings

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runeraccoon
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Using SAI2 for background drawings

#1 Post by runeraccoon » Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:58 am

Okay, so. Seriously, I wonder why people aren't hyping over Paint Tool SAI ver. 2, especially because of its nifty, intuitive perspective tools. Seriously, it's like magic. Tumblr hyped over it when the news was out, back in 2014 I think? But now that it's truly out, the discourse isn't as fullblown as I expected. It's probably due to the beta version of the software, but you can validate it using the license key you get from buying the predecessor, so.... Oh well.
bebg.png
I'm that person who goes from being unable to determine perspective at all, to someone who can sketch like this last night under 30 minutes? I freaked out, actually.

Anyway, paint tool sai2's perspective rulers and grids (haven't twiddled with the later much tho) are very intuitive. I wouldn't say I can suddenly do awesome sparkling BG in a night, mostly because the palette and value will determine much of how finished it looks, but it's a real good shortcut. For me, SAI has always been that simple, intuitive program where if you don't mind getting your hands dirty because of it's inability to draw circles etc, it's real good. But with the new features, I'm just bordering on worshipping systemax. I really don't know why, but I can't entirely move on to other programs...

So yeah, hopefully people will start hyping over this software, and I'll be looking forward for more correctly drawn BGs in VNs~

Please discuss this software with me, there are still so many features I haven't tried yet!

Useful videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_tBs5zsOqI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkllg_t3ONs
https://youtu.be/UFotC5PSvS8?t=2m11s

Brushes settings:
http://marcianek.deviantart.com/art/Pai ... -663970007 (That Pencil Simple is a lifesaver for my lineart.)
http://marcianek.deviantart.com/art/Sai ... -593860781
http://intfighter.deviantart.com/art/SA ... -688872377

Some other tutorials:
http://juandfr.deviantart.com/art/Paint ... -688955490

Idk please link me for more! :3

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Re: Using SAI2 for background drawings

#2 Post by Taleweaver » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:35 am

Moved to Asset Creation: Art, where it belongs.
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Re: Using SAI2 for background drawings

#3 Post by runeraccoon » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:45 am

Taleweaver wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:35 am
Moved to Asset Creation: Art, where it belongs.
I honestly thought I put it there, but since you lend a hand, apparently I put it in the wrong sub. xD
Thanks!

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Re: Using SAI2 for background drawings

#4 Post by MaiMai » Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:06 am

Sai 2 isn't really out. It's still in the beta stage that's been through constant updates including the most recent one being today, but it's not an official release by any means if the development room page of the Sai website is anything to go by.

It's definitely usable though, since as you mentioned, people w/ the software license from purchasing the original Sai have access to all of its features including saving and opening files.
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Re: Using SAI2 for background drawings

#5 Post by YonYonYon » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:09 am

There's already a fully out and working program with the rulers that can be used for the perspective called Medibang. I don't remember how the rulers worked in SAI 2 since it's been forever, but Medibang's rulers are quite good too. Also, SAI and SAI 2 are pretty buggy programs that won't even start on some computers, so I'm not really surprised there's no such hype
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Re: Using SAI2 for background drawings

#6 Post by runeraccoon » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:55 am

Yes, the beta status is probably what hinders most to try it. But so far so good. I think everything is working. :D

About SAI and SAI2 being buggy, I don't have a personal issue with that, nor my friends. Maybe it's just about the different build, as it keeps being updated every once in a while. Maybe it's about the weird language setting as it was only useable in Japan locale... Or so I thought about SAI2 beta in 2015... (It's no longer the case.)

I used medibang for months exclusively, when my laptop got too old and I had to send it repeatedly to a service center. Medibang felt consistent across my family's devices. I hopped around to whichever available device while waiting for my laptop to get fixed. And it's free! It's legit! It can be used in phones and tablets~ No license to buy and it keeps being updated~ It's kind of awesome, really, I highly recommend Medibang for those who don't want to pay for illustration software.

As far as I know, however, Medibang only has 1 point perspective. The same ruler guide also can't be used to draw the Y axis without being turned off first.
SAI2 can, and have 2 and 3 points perspectives as well where you can draw on the X, Y, and Z axis in the same layer/using the same ruler. In this case, the feature is similar to Clip Studio Paint~

Please correct me if I'm wrong about the rulers, though!

So here's my personal experiences:

In the end, I had to buy a new laptop, and I tried using Medibang, SAI, SAI2, and Clip Studio Paint.
- SAI2, I hadn't found a good brush setting yet and cannot produce the lines I wanted. It looked nifty, but I didn't use it seriously yet.
- SAI, it's just too old, the icons are pixelated due to larger screen res, or so I assume. Since I didn't use shortkeys, I found it too limiting to even change brushes.
- I don't know if there's some setting that I wasn't aware of, but using Medibang tires the back of my hand too quickly in the new laptop.
- Clip Studio, I bought it, was excited because of the nifty features for making manga/webcomic. I also like the way it looks. I ended up buying it when there was a sale off, even. But there are too many features, and I didn't explore far enough the find the settings and brushes that I love.

But I ended up in months-long hiatus, and when I returned, it felt like trying to ride a bicycle all over again when I used all the franchise but SAI's. Maybe because my needs are basic, I don't need all the trinkets. SAI's and SAI2's layouts are just simple and intuitive for me. In the end, I finally figured the brush setting that I love... But that's even after producing some really damn good improvements since my last year's works.

So I'm pretty dang happy right now~

I just want to spread the happiness~ Please try SAI2, everyone! <3

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Re: Using SAI2 for background drawings

#7 Post by YonYonYon » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:51 am

Hm, using all three points of perspective does sound neat. In Medibang it is just one point you can use, tho if you save all 3 with "Save perspective" it's not that bad.

Anyway, I'm glad it's working out for you.
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Re: Using SAI2 for background drawings

#8 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:05 pm

Maybe because, as you said yourself, Clip Studio Paint has had all these tools for years? It's the same price as SAI and has 1,2,3 point and even HIGHER perspective, as well as allowing custom rulers and guides to be created. Clip Studio paint does have a ton of features that take time to learn, but if you are familiar with Photoshop the learning curve drops to almost zero.

It is awesome that SAI2 is implementing this feature, but it isn't actually revolutionary for the digital illustrating community. (It IS a sad commentary on Adobe when Photoshop is the one of the only drawing programs left WITHOUT these features.)

Clip Studio Paint is my favorite drawing program - it has the best drawing engine of any program I've tried in the past 15 years. I also find it hilarious (and useful!) that it lets you set it up to essential copy the user interface of either Photoshop or SAI, so the transition between the programs is almost seamless.

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Re: Using SAI2 for background drawings

#9 Post by runeraccoon » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:44 pm

LateWhiteRabbit wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:05 pm
Maybe because, as you said yourself, Clip Studio Paint has had all these tools for years? It's the same price as SAI and has 1,2,3 point and even HIGHER perspective, as well as allowing custom rulers and guides to be created. Clip Studio paint does have a ton of features that take time to learn, but if you are familiar with Photoshop the learning curve drops to almost zero.

It is awesome that SAI2 is implementing this feature, but it isn't actually revolutionary for the digital illustrating community. (It IS a sad commentary on Adobe when Photoshop is the one of the only drawing programs left WITHOUT these features.)

Clip Studio Paint is my favorite drawing program - it has the best drawing engine of any program I've tried in the past 15 years. I also find it hilarious (and useful!) that it lets you set it up to essential copy the user interface of either Photoshop or SAI, so the transition between the programs is almost seamless.
I agree with that hilarity. xD I suppose most of the commentaries for Manga Studio before they're being implemented is that users like SAI/Photoshop's interfaces better. That's a good move actually, making CSP very powerful and comfortable to transition into. In the end, it's about which one we're comfortable using. SAI2 was less intimidating for me when I wanted to draw again. I also don't need the more advanced features. SAI2 is so basic but all the basic works so good. xD

I'd recommend SAI2 for those who wanted to try dabbling in background. If they're comfortable using it from then on, good. But if they need more advanced stuffs, I also would have recommended CSP... (which is why I haven't uninstalled CSP, just in case. *laughs*)

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Re: Using SAI2 for background drawings

#10 Post by ScarletKnives » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:01 pm

i use SAI for drawing but I have bought CSP past year but... I just can't get used to it. Its like starting from zero; because all the tools I have on SAI are gone; and sketching-doing lineart is a pain because the pen acts aloof; even with estabilizer.

I know it's way better but... dang, I just can't.

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Re: Using SAI2 for background drawings

#11 Post by King-sama » Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:51 pm

I am jealous! Your thirty minutes perspective sketch is better than my sixteen hours sketch

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Re: Using SAI2 for background drawings

#12 Post by asabuchuo » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:58 am

Its about time Sai caught up with one of the primative features that made Japanese drawing software superior in the first place from Photoshop and Painter..

Even the previous generation software prior to ClipStudio, called IllustStudio released back in 2009 version 1.1 has a very customizable ruler tool/option.. Though, the perspective rulers on ClipStudio is much more advanced than IllustStudio.

After buying IllustStudio back in the early days, I never used PhotoShop for drawing line art anymore due to the speedy engine and familiar PhotoShop like UI.

I tried SAI back then as well, it was not very stable for me on large files (mostly images of 5000px by 5000 px - plus .sai files), and for the same price, I felt Celsys offering of IllustStudio and ClipStudio had much more features and more familiar UI.

These "digital" perspective ruler tools are still not perfect, especially for difficult perspectives, mostly trying emulate a fisheye wide lens camera perspective, which requires minimal of 4 vanishing points, or 5 vanishing points if you want a wide angle fisheye view on a birds eye perspective of a 3D object vanishing to the middle for depth.

So far, these software are limited to 3 point perspective. And the 4 and 5 point perspectives are not possible, and still better done traditionally by hand..
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