Japanese honorifics? [CLOSED]

[GratuitousMoonspeak]

It does kind of reek of fanboyism, but I don't know many casual players of visual novels

Those two things mightn't be unrelated, though. VNs have almost no learning curve, someone who's never played a videogame in their lives could have a decent go at them. And games like Phoenix Wright (yeah, I know it's a bit of a weird hybrid, but it's still an interesting case in point) have shown that at least a portion of casual/mainstream players are happy to get on board for a good story and some interesting gameplay. It's probably not coincidental that Phoenix Wright had an extremely Westernised translation, either.

On a related note, I think it was handled okay in the Persona series, where they did use honorifics, but I don't feel like it really hurt the games overall. They're set in Japan, after all :-/

Persona would be one of the examples that work with honorifics I think, as besides from being set in Japan, it feels very culturally Japanese, if that makes any sense. Additionally, they have a kind of an otherworldy feel to them anyway, and the use of cultural touches like honorifics adds to that, for Western audiences at least. It's an interesting example in that it adds to the feel in a way that wouldn't even have been apparent to the original audience.

As to your first point: Phoenix Wright is still a niche game. I don't know many people who even know the series exists, but then, I'm not surrounded by video game fans all the time. I guess another series like this would be BlazBlue: it's a weird fighting/VN hybrid and while it does have a loyal fanbase, it is still not very popular. Granted, this might be because it relies on anime tropes and cliches in general. Also, Phoenix Wright is not something I think of when I think 'visual novel,' if only because it's not like the typical romance game that I'm kind of familiar with. I know there are VNs in other genres, but the romance one seems to be the most popular. I'm pretty sure that even in Japan VNs still have a very narrow fanbase.

In any case, I still don't think VNs would be something that most casual gamers would pick up if only because I don't think VNs are actually games. "Interactive fiction" is a loose definition, but it's the best one, IMO, to describe them. There are VNs with RPG elements, or fighting elements, or, in the case of Phoenix Wright, a detective/lawyer slant, but they're still very text-heavy. Many gamers in the US complain about games with too much text. Several reviews of VNs on Amazon complain about 'walls of text' (though honestly I think they're missing the point).

But that's just my take on it. Feel free to disagree with me here.

[papillon]

Visual novels _have_ been sold on large casual portals, and there are a decent number of people whose first exposure to the genre is through english games, not through otakuism.

You're right that they aren't that likely to be adopted enmasse by the entire hidden object game crowd, but there are many players and potential players who are totally unfamiliar with the japanese practices.

[J. Datie]

I'd just like to point out that Persona, or at least the fourth one, didn't actually use the same honorifics in the English version as it did in the Japanese version. This made it pretty confusing, since I played it expecting the honorifics to be used in the same way the Japanese use them. So I guess the moral of the story is make absolutely sure you know what they mean?

[LateWhiteRabbit]

So I guess the moral of the story is make absolutely sure you know what they mean?

Exactly. And I don't think that's possible unless you're fluent in Japanese and have spent time living in Japan interacting with native speakers.

[ffs_jay]

Visual novels _have_ been sold on large casual portals, and there are a decent number of people whose first exposure to the genre is through english games, not through otakuism.

You're right that they aren't that likely to be adopted enmasse by the entire hidden object game crowd, but there are many players and potential players who are totally unfamiliar with the japanese practices.

This is pretty much what I was trying to get at, but papillon put it better than I did. I'm saying there's a sizeable, largely-untapped market that could possibly go for these kind of games. A good few of my DS-owning friends were big Phoenix Wright fans, and these are people that couldn't even tell you what a visual novel is, let alone if they liked them or not.

[GratuitousMoonspeak]

Visual novels _have_ been sold on large casual portals, and there are a decent number of people whose first exposure to the genre is through english games, not through otakuism.

You're right that they aren't that likely to be adopted enmasse by the entire hidden object game crowd, but there are many players and potential players who are totally unfamiliar with the japanese practices.

This is pretty much what I was trying to get at, but papillon put it better than I did. I'm saying there's a sizeable, largely-untapped market that could possibly go for these kind of games. A good few of my DS-owning friends were big Phoenix Wright fans, and these are people that couldn't even tell you what a visual novel is, let alone if they liked them or not.

Ah, okay. I just don't know many people *personally* who know what VNs are or who have even heard of the ones that have come out in the U.S. So, sorry, I was basing my comments on my own experiences :-/

[sciencewarrior]

Okay, I'll bite the bullet and pull the rest of the honorifics out. Besides all the dangers you pointed out, I realized a significant portion of this game's potential audience is people who played Katawa Shoujo and want more high school VNs, and it just uses first names.

*sigh* And that jelly scene involving honorifics had turned out so well... time to kill my darlings, I guess.

[TrickWithAKnife]

To be honest, even Japanese get confused at times about when to use honorifics, but like Greeny said, they aren't actually used that much. But it can depend on the situation.

I'm living in Japan, but I'm not Japanese. My wife however is, so if you reply with some fairly short, specific examples, I could ask her opinion if you like.

[sciencewarrior]

I'm living in Japan, but I'm not Japanese. My wife however is, so if you reply with some fairly short, specific examples, I could ask her opinion if you like.

Thanks for the offer, but the other posters made me realize that the problem isn't using honorifics wrongly, it's using honorifics at all. People without any knowledge of Japanese culture will be confused, so it's safer just getting rid of them.

There was only one strange effect of getting rid of the honorifics: some of the characters' personality changed. When I changed a girl's dialogue to replace, for example, "Murakami-kun" with "Ken", suddenly she switched from almost pathologically shy to Manic Pixie Dream Girl (warning: TV Tropes link)

Anyway, welcome to the forums! I hope you enjoy your stay.