What makes people care about a protagonist?

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Lishy
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What makes people care about a protagonist?

#1 Post by Lishy »

"Why should I care" about a protagonist in a story? What makes a protagonist connect with the reader, and what makes him likeable?

This is an issue I need advice for. How does a story make one care about the protagonist and engage them?
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Re: 'Why should I care?'

#2 Post by fleet »

Think about your own friends. What caused you to connect with them? Shared interests, classes you have (or had) in common, sports that you participate in or like to watch, writing or reading visual novels are some ideas.
Keep in mind that not everyone is going to connect with your protagonist.
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Re: 'Why should I care?'

#3 Post by Akjosch »

I don't think you need to make the protagonist likeable. Hamlet is an asshole, for example. Of course, for some cases it helps.

The one thing the protagonists should instead be is interesting. It doesn't mean they should be "special" as regarded by the world they are living in (though they are certainly special in respect to the story you are telling). In fact, quite a few of the greatest stories were told about quite ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances (example: "The Old Man and the Sea" by Hemingway).

But "ordinary" is not the same as "boring". The biggest issue here is to make the protagonists actively pursue their goals, always giving their best, never giving up, never getting discouraged by failure for long - and they will fail a lot, or you're not writing an engaging enough story - until the end. Such people are interesting by virtue of us wanting to know how they'll deal with another catastrophe coming their way alone.

There are other details where you can fail to create an interesting enough character. One important is the lack of change. If your protagonists stay the same the whole length of the story, if they never learn anything, they are not interesting enough. In fact, James Frey (in "How to Write a Damn Good Novel", which really should be required reading for most people writing stories for others) strongly suggests that you should pick one characteristic of the protagonist and make sure it changes to its opposite through what happens to the protagonists during the story.

Finally (for this post), one tip: Be nasty to your protagonists. People like to root for the underdogs. ;)

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Re: 'Why should I care?'

#4 Post by Sharm »

A quick an easy way to make someone more likable is to make them very competent at something. House is a complete jerk but he's just so good at helping people that you keep watching. (Well, I don't, he's too much of a jerk for me, but you get the idea)
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Re: 'Why should I care?'

#5 Post by Victoria Jennings »

You know, I wonder how this question applies to blank-slate protagonists. In collective, the MC doesn't really do anything on his own; you're controlling him completely. Everything he says, every decision he makes... it's all up to the player. I'm trying to get my audience to feel like they -are- the protagonist.

To answer your question, though, in general, it really helps to not have your protagonist be the center of the universe. It's exactly why I hate Sora from Kingdom Hearts. orz

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Re: 'Why should I care?'

#6 Post by Dim Sum »

Lishy wrote:"Why should I care" about a protagonist in a story? What makes a protagonist connect with the reader, and what makes him likeable?

This is an issue I need advice for. How does a story make one care about the protagonist and engage them?
Escapist character:

Like Rambo = combo of rugged Capt. America/bodybuilder and chick magnet.

Basic idea is that every generation wants knight in shining armor. Even straight men.

Get away with this and plot does not matter so long as they kick ass. People want escape first and foremost.

Even acclaimed people who think they are above it only say cause they have been exposed to too many cliches.

Ideal empowering character:

Lots of people in real life have secret dreams and hopes...but real life don't always make it happen.

That's why Hollywood love fake "based on true story" story.

They know even smarter audience wants to believe in fairy tale that makes their bias true like hard work is not just going to pay off but send you rocket ship to fame/fortune and elite legendary status.

Curious cases:

When above does not apply, skilled writers know how to make plot magnetic by curious cases.

See, even good plot is bad plot if people don't wait for good plot.

But if Harry Potter has interesting introduction like tragic back story, all needed is several more sequels and bam! Audience.

Even Batman should be dull as Superman but not cause he has entire back story based on being workaholic and being rewarded for being able to outwit Superman cause of it.

Rep:

See success stories like Buffy. Failed movie, same bland reboot but now popular as TV show.

Many hard working writer like to think it's all bad timing or wrong medium or producer meddling but really it's often how you can keep your character going.

You'd be surprised how many can connect to characters simply because characters has long outstanding history.

Goes for reverse too. People with misconceptions about character would later be familiarize with flanderized arc and yet forgive it cause that's how they first get introduced to characterization of character.

Connection pretty much boils to these things IMO.

Yes, talented writer can "expound" and "rationalize" beyond these. Yes, talented writer can "execute" depth or illusion of depth.

Yet truth of matter is:

[*]length is oxygen cause many quit or drop out + it always add more plot twist

[*]people are addicts for the unknown; even critics who hate stuff must watch or read and if you keep them reading, you keep them regardless of post-hate

[*]people want help, verification and support and they not always get it or skilled to do it; way back before self-help boom become market - dreams came from mythology and lure hard working talents toward certain route they take in life

[*]people not really want entertainment as much as drugs. Even basic biological needs is composed of what chemicals get sent to what part of our head. Thing is people also has morals and controls cause without that, no creativity. We'd be all just lazing off. That's where stuff like opium of the masses come from and as society evolve, that's the stuff that unifies all people. Even intelligent people who is above entertainment is not above political debates, intelligent masturbation, symbol searching and breaks from life in the form of consumable entertainment

These form not only form structure of connectivity but they also form many structure for other interesting stuff.

Ideals are at the heart of appeal to ethos
Escapism are at the heart of appeal to pathos
Curiosity are at the heart of appeal to logos
Rep are at the heart of appeal to credibility/canon/fanfiction/length

It all boils down to how you play with this but I bet expert/veteran writers don't need to care.

That big secret: Great story as with great art/music is not why should you care. Great story is why are you being remembered and held on to after your series is dead? ...or why is someone else arguing for you when someone is hating on you?

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Re: 'Why should I care?'

#7 Post by LateWhiteRabbit »

Akjosch wrote: Finally (for this post), one tip: Be nasty to your protagonists. People like to root for the underdogs. ;)
Akjosch says it really well.

As I've heard it said before, you need to put your protagonist in a tree. Then put a vicious pack of wolves at the tree base. Then throw rocks at him. Then set the tree on fire . . . and the tree has Dutch Elm disease. :lol: Basically, you want to make life and circumstances very difficult on your protagonist. You want the readers to wonder HOW he will ever get out of this jam. If the answer to that question is GOOD and logical without any cheats, you have a good story.

Mystery is what makes a story AND a protagonist interesting. You want the audience to have questions and slowly drip clues to them until the audience can put the answers together. The mystery keeps people enthralled, and the answers are their reward for sticking with you. If you give them the tools to put the answers together themselves, they'll feel good about themselves, and thus good about your story. If your audience is gleefully screaming, "I knew it! I knew it!" when the end comes, then congratulations, you've done well. They been so hooked they are anticipating every next event, hanging on every word for validation of their theories. You don't want them frustrated and muttering, "Well, THAT didn't make any sense."

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Re: 'Why should I care?'

#8 Post by Dim Sum »

LateWhiteRabbit wrote:
Akjosch wrote: Finally (for this post), one tip: Be nasty to your protagonists. People like to root for the underdogs. ;)
Akjosch says it really well.

As I've heard it said before, you need to put your protagonist in a tree. Then put a vicious pack of wolves at the tree base. Then throw rocks at him. Then set the tree on fire . . . and the tree has Dutch Elm disease. :lol: Basically, you want to make life and circumstances very difficult on your protagonist. You want the readers to wonder HOW he will ever get out of this jam. If the answer to that question is GOOD and logical without any cheats, you have a good story.

Mystery is what makes a story AND a protagonist interesting. You want the audience to have questions and slowly drip clues to them until the audience can put the answers together. The mystery keeps people enthralled, and the answers are their reward for sticking with you. If you give them the tools to put the answers together themselves, they'll feel good about themselves, and thus good about your story. If your audience is gleefully screaming, "I knew it! I knew it!" when the end comes, then congratulations, you've done well. They been so hooked they are anticipating every next event, hanging on every word for validation of their theories. You don't want them frustrated and muttering, "Well, THAT didn't make any sense."
Not bad advise. Just think adding disclaimer is important with that advise.

As famous quote goes: kill your darlings (P.S. Random google search. Actual details is in King's book On Writing)

Keyword there is not just kill but "your darlings".

That's cause many writers don't know how to be nasty to protagonist. Thinks it means being bully when it's supposed to be being nasty to human. As in more Satan to Job than Revelations, Crucifixion or Joshua or Cain for those who know Biblical references.

Still IMO not good enough advise (context I know is based on hero making not protagonist connection) but I not talented enough to dispute.

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Re: What makes people care about a protagonist?

#9 Post by Xuan »

For short stories, go right into the thick of events and don't spend too much time with descriptions. One or two line is often more than enough before you dive into interesting things that enrich your protagonist's character.

As for long stories, details details details details all the way, with the right atmosphere. This is assuming you're writing something like a novel. You don't really need interesting events to enrich a protagonist, you just need events that are relevant to progressing the plot or events specifically geared towards the protagonist.

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Re: What makes people care about a protagonist?

#10 Post by dramspringfeald »

Well, what makes YOU care about the protagonist?

The main character is someone you identify with because you are a protagonist.
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Re: What makes people care about a protagonist?

#11 Post by AshenhartKrie »

Don't make them perfect. Give them flaws, give them HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE, DEBILITATING flaws, it makes them interesting. (V_V) Make them relatable. Also make them interesting. People don't like boring characters who are nice and kind to everyone. NOBODY LIKES MARY SUES!!!
I'm probably repeating a few things that have been said, but since I'm not normally bothered to read through every comment I actually don't know.
Sometimes giving the reader/player time to get to know the character helps, or giving them something that makes the player/reader sympathise with that character.
For example, one of my OCs is a total jerk, but people will sympathise with him (hopefully) becuase his family threw him out and made him fend for himself when he was seven years old, which is why he doesn't trust anyone. This is a pretty commonplace flaw, you find this type of character a lot in VN-type dating games, in which the guy refuses to get close to the MC because he's afraid of hurting her (or him in BL ones).
Other ideas for flaws -
* An illness, mental or otherwise. Also another commonplace flaw. Try researching personality disorders like schizophrenia or borderline personality disorder.
* An old wound. From an accident, or a surgery. Maybe this wound stops the protagonist from doing something that he/she loves, like the main male character from CLANNAD (I forgot his name). Something happened to his shoulder and now he can't play basketball anymore, or Marcus, from The Eagle by Rosemary Sutcliffe. He suffers an injury in a battle and he is honourably discharged from his station, which leads to him restore his family honour (good book, I recommend reading it. YAY for soft bromance!)
*Social Awkwardness. This is PERFECT for funny VNs. Try having a look at some Commedia Dell'arte characters, particularly Tartaglia, who has a stutter.
I can't think of any more at the moment, but I hope this helped out a bit. ^_^ Good luck.

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Re: What makes people care about a protagonist?

#12 Post by HaruhianSakurai »

I'm gonna say this because I've noticed it in my characters, underneath the persona of your character that they consciously show to others, is a developed trait.
At least one characteristic most people will find admirable, that secretly defines and controls the actions subconsciously of the protagonist. Willingness to do what's morally right when push comes to shove is a popular one.
Emotionally distressing back-stories will help the reader become attached.
Hope this helps! ^-^

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Re: What makes people care about a protagonist?

#13 Post by Gear »

Make the reader/player understand the character's reasons. You may make a character who's a warlord, and the player may not AGREE with the character's decisions or mindsets, but if the character is explained in a way that the motivations (s)he has is/are realistic, understandable, and sometimes sympathetic (ex. I do NOT agree with you attacking these people...but after so many of them attacked your parents and killed them while you were too young to differentiate, I can KINDA see where you're coming from, and I hope you see the light...), then people are going to be more interested in the character in general, and will want them to come out on top, even if not in the way the character things (s)he should.
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Re: 'Why should I care?'

#14 Post by Onepeicefan1992 »

Sharm wrote:A quick an easy way to make someone more likable is to make them very competent at something. House is a complete jerk but he's just so good at helping people that you keep watching. (Well, I don't, he's too much of a jerk for me, but you get the idea)
if all the characters were goody 2 shoes the game would be boring! every game or story needs a jerk to spice things up.

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Re: 'Why should I care?'

#15 Post by athenastar17 »

Victoria Jennings wrote:You know, I wonder how this question applies to blank-slate protagonists. In collective, the MC doesn't really do anything on his own; you're controlling him completely. Everything he says, every decision he makes... it's all up to the player. I'm trying to get my audience to feel like they -are- the protagonist.

To answer your question, though, in general, it really helps to not have your protagonist be the center of the universe. It's exactly why I hate Sora from Kingdom Hearts. orz
I agree - I also don't think "chosen one" does your main character any favors, unless they're like the one in Cucumber Quest - totally incompetent and unwilling to be the chosen one. :) It's made worse by the fact that his little sister would make a better hero, both him and his sister know it and wish they'd pick her instead, and the powers that be say "nope."

I've seen the "blank slate" achieved well in games where the main character is silent, like Legend of Zelda and Persona 3/4. What these games tend to do is fill in the character's backstory...and then give them one defining character trait, which all of your responses follow.

Speaking of the "chosen one" - in Zelda, that defining trait has typically been "courageous," but it's also been "troublemaker" at times, ever so slightly "weak and trodden on" in the very beginning of Ocarina of Time, or in the case of Skyward Sword, "talented lazy ass." (Though I actually didn't like the "talented lazy ass" version of Link as much as the others, truth be told...personal preference.) Zelda also does a really good job of putting people in your backstory who 1) bully the crap out of you, and 2) support you in the face of those bullies. It also nearly always forces you to "take the high road" when confronted by these bullies, which makes Link look like a good person. You can tell a lot about him by how people treat him, even though he never speaks, and a lot of those are character traits that give you warm fuzzies when you see him smile.

In Persona, you're always playing a silent character with "variable" personality, but you have "defining character moments." In Persona 3, you play someone whom Yukari mentions isn't fazed by anything - this is illustrated further by how the MC completely ignores all the crazy !@#$ that happens to him/her in the beginning and goes about his/her business as normal after a brief double-take. It also repeatedly establishes the main character as a better leader than the others despite his/her apparent apathy to everything, as s/he is cool under fire when the others lose their heads. In Persona 4, Chie mentions that you're "a very open person" and you have nothing to hide, giving you several character traits - honesty, self-confidence, and perhaps even bluntness.

The other thing Persona does really well (and Zelda too for that matter, but eh) is giving the main character a face that says a lot about their personality. A lot of VNs think that giving the main character a physical appearance is unnecessary, and even takes away from the ability of the player to project into that character, but I disagree. If I'm stepping into a new world, I'd like to step into a new pair of shoes, too, and have some idea of what they look like.

In practice.... I think Link from Windwaker was voted the most expressive character of its time, which made him seem far more energetic and emotional than his older and younger clones...and of course, adorable - someone you don't like to see get hurt. Persona, amazingly, generally only gives their MCs one or two pieces of facial art, yet you can tell a lot about their personalities just by looking at them. The male MC from Persona 3 looks very laid back and unemotional - the female looks mischievous and daring, and doesn't look like the kind of person that could be broken by fear or hesitation. The MC in Persona 4 keeps his eyebrows mostly hidden and his eyes fairly focused, so he isn't very expressive, but he also won't be easily broken by sorrow.

I guess the point is, you can add a lot of subliminal detail to characters that aren't "fleshed out" and are intended to "bond" with the player's psyche. This makes the characters memorable and lovable even though they don't have any memorable "quotes" or preset paths or even morality.

...But by far, what I bond to most in a character is genre savvy. If you want the player to identify with a character, that character needs to share their thoughts. To use Kingdom Hearts as an example, Sora would have been much easier to identify with if...every time he came to a door that said "this door is locked," he mentioned something along the lines of, "Gee, it's too bad I don't have a GIANT MAGICAL KEY that can open EVERY LOCK IN THE UNIVERSE," and then have someone shoot him down and tell him to stop thinking about things. Or, if the first time he saw a new final boss... Donald: "Who are you?!" Sora: "That's Ansem. Again." Goofy: "Gawrsh, How d'ya figure that? Didn't we defeat Aynsem already?" Sora: "Yeah, but that's totally him. Look! He's got the same silly white hair and stuff." Riku: "Gee, THANKS."
Last edited by athenastar17 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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