Do good games need bad ends?

[Flowers from Nowhere]

I like happy endings so I tend to be weary of bad ends. I always want the character to wind up with something at the end of the story even if it wasn't everything they wanted or could have gotten in another path.

Do bad ends add to a story? I understand that the possibility of failure is what makes a good end triumphant but I think that has more to do with the trials that the character goes through over the course of the story. What are others' thoughts on this?

[Ran08]

I think they're also important to the story. This is just what I think, okay, but for me, visual novels, even the fantasy or sci-fi ones, should at least portray realism. And in real life not everything goes our way and sometimes, things don't turn out okay in the end. We all make bad decisions and those bad decisions have to end up somewhere, right? Unfortunately, most of them end up in bad ends too. I know there's a saying that "If it's not better, then it's not over." and I believe in that, but I think sometimes life wants us to experience bad stuff to make us learn from it. It's the same with visual novels for me. Just my 2 cents. =)

[SundownKid]

Everything I have done before now has been linear stories, so I can't say I like the concept of having a bad ending where everything falls apart. I mean, I don't relish heaping misfortune and death on my characters without a good reason. I prefer having multiple endings at the same time, rather than bad endings placed randomly throughout the story. But, that's just from someone who was educated mostly on book writing and screenwriting. If the story doesn't "run its due course", it feels weird to end it.

[Aines445]

I think they do. It's weird how I thought about not having bad ends made me kind of sad XD, it's like those things that you hate but if they're gone you'll miss them or something like that, and I HATE bad ends, like I want to avoid them as much as possible. I guess the first reply makes a good point, in life itself, you avoid making bad decisions, and you will ultimatly make one, and that won't be so pleasant, same should be for games.

[gekiganwing]

...I always want the character to wind up with something at the end of the story even if it wasn't everything they wanted or could have gotten in another path. Do bad ends add to a story?

My overall answer is "it depends on what you want to write." I know that's a copout, but there are many ways to end a story or game. Some examples:

* Triumphant. The main characters definitely win over evil. No relationship trainwrecks.
* Bittersweet. Not a happy ending, but not horrible. Some important characters died along the way, but the survivors won.
* Tragic. The main character fails to prevent a crisis. If the person is self destructive, he/she might become a villain, and might not even learn anything along the way.
* Bleak. The villain wins, and there is no room for optimism.
* Ambiguous. Leave questions like "Was the villain really defeated?" and "Will the main couple stay together?" unanswered.
* Cryptic. Don't explain things. Encourage the audience to piece together clues and devise their own theories.

I'm sure someone else can provide more terms and better definitions... Anyway, think about what ending(s) are appropriate for the tone of your story. Also, consider your intentions. Do you want to create a challenge? Is your game/VN going to be relaxing?

If there are multiple endings, I'd say it's a good idea to make sure the main character *has a decent chance* to fail. If every ending is positive, that might make the main character's efforts to succeed seem meaningless. But if (nearly) every ending is depressing, then the story can be difficult to read and enjoy.

[Flowers from Nowhere]

If the story doesn't "run its due course", it feels weird to end it.

If every ending is positive, that might make the main character's efforts to succeed seem meaningless.

I think these are the main sides of this issue.

I don't want to invalidate my heroes' successes, which is what I am afraid will happen if I leave out bad ends entirely, but because I don't like bad ends myself I don't tend to think about them when I'm scripting.

I have played games where the bad ends (sometimes even the good ends) seemed to come out of nowhere or left out important plot information, giving the story an unfinished feeling. I think that the player should get a satisfying story out of one play-through regardless of the ending they achieve without having to do other routes to get more information.

* Triumphant. The main characters definitely win over evil. No relationship trainwrecks.
* Bittersweet. Not a happy ending, but not horrible. Some important characters died along the way, but the survivors won.
* Tragic. The main character fails to prevent a crisis. If the person is self destructive, he/she might become a villain, and might not even learn anything along the way.
* Bleak. The villain wins, and there is no room for optimism.
* Ambiguous. Leave questions like "Was the villain really defeated?" and "Will the main couple stay together?" unanswered.
* Cryptic. Don't explain things. Encourage the audience to piece together clues and devise their own theories.

It helps a lot to have the possibilities broken down like this. I can enjoy bittersweet endings and I hadn't even been considering ambiguous or cryptic.

[Palas]

Not only does it depend on what you want to write, but also on how you write. It's generally awkward to deliver a bad ending if your style has been carefree all along - of course there is room for it, but under specific circumstances.

Conversely, even the most triumphant ending will be stained by a helplessly sarcastic style of writing or storytelling. This doesn't mean Oscar Wilde could never write good endings, but triumphant endings usually require some kind of selfless immersion into the story for it to be truly triumphant, while bittersweet or cryptic endings make the reader become more pensive, introverted, ruminating the meanings of the story. And that's more suited to the styles that tend to brea the fourth wall or things like that.

But, in general, I'd say bad endings, bad aftertaste or even bad stuff that is only perceived much later add a lot to the experience, because they explore different sides of empathy. Sometimes, it feels adequate to have something left undone or done wrong.

[Desu_Cake]

I find that bad ends help give consequences to the character's (and player's) choices. Like, if the game is to reward you for making the right choice, it needs to punish you for making the wrong choice. (said punishment may be just withholding the reward)
Without some "less good" endings, it can make it seem like the main character lives in a fairytale world where nothing can go wrong. Of course this isn't always the case (if things went badly earlier in the story for example), but it is a risk.

[dramspringfeald]

I prefer Individual True endings really.

It breaks down kind of easy.
Ending 00 - You messed up and caused a non standard game over.
Ending 0 - You are REALLY bad at these games and ended with no one.
Ending 1 - Character True ending - This can be good, or bad you know the characters and not everything ends on a happy note period.
Ending 2 - Character Alt Ending - You managed to NOT complete the game fully and fell short. This tends to be the sad ending, You were a good friend but well...
Ending 3 - Other ending.

Repeat Ending 1 & 2 for each character path.

Worked well for Chrono Cross and most the modern sims.

[Tsundere Lightning]

Do bad ends add to a story? I understand that the possibility of failure is what makes a good end triumphant but I think that has more to do with the trials that the character goes through over the course of the story. What are others' thoughts on this?

Bad ends, if they reflect on the poor choices of the player's character, can absolutely add to a game. A game is "a series of meaningful choices," as Sid Meier said. Having meaningful choices must include the possibility of making the wrong choices by definintion, and a well-written bad end can convey that in a way that an optimistic ending can't.

[CSJ]

There are some people that like looking for bad endings in a game, just to see what happens. Sometimes, they can be like little Easter Eggs hidden inside the games; such 'bad endings' tend to be comedic - a bit like how staying underwater for a few minutes in one of the Monkey Island games eventually killed you, or the other false endings peppered through that series.