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For my first visual novel, the main character of the story is a guy. This guy also has guy friends.

The thing is, I'm not a guy; I most likely don't speak or act like a guy; my inner thoughts are not guy-like; the way I interact with guys is probably different from guy/guy interaction (Something tells me one guy will not tell another guy that his handwriting is very pretty) etc.

So, when it comes to writing a male character, I have a lot of trouble judging whether the character comes off as naturally male, or whether he's become a stereotype of the male.
Or maybe he's even too effeminate (when, for this character at least, it's not my intention).

I was wondering how other people deal with this.
When writing a character of the opposite gender, what do you do to try and make the character as natural as possible?

Do you eavesdrop on conversations, do you ask your opposite gender friends on advice?
Or?

How about reading books and absorbing the feel of it? Movies and books are a good place to start, as long as you pick a good author and roll with it. When you're done, you can pass it around to a couple of male friends and have them proofread its maleness. I know a few female authors who write gay romance that do that so their characters won't come off as some Woobie, so it might work for you too. C:

Oh! I didn't even think about existing literature or movies.
Maybe I could use a movie and just study movement/posture/speech etc. (like a cultural antropologist does).
At least when it comes to describing actions and such.

I just casually mentioned to one of my guy friends that I was trying to write this story and he told me he wouldn't mind reading it through (as he mentioned having written stories himself before). Phew.
I just hope he's comfortable reading about same sex relationships (I *might* add a small route if I find it fits one of the characters).

And... we often have super different opinions on stuff haha.
For instance: I spent almost half an hour arguing with him that a combo of flat, cool, muddy green/yellow/blue colours send depressing/gritty vibes when used in art (see: the Matrix, Requiem for a Dream, Tanaka Tatsuyuki). He is adamant that green/yellow/blue = nature and therefore = happy -_-

But I guess asking my male friends will help.
And my entire class is like 99% boy, so... I could turn that into a learning place too

When writing a character of the opposite gender, what do you do to try and make the character as natural as possible?

Do you eavesdrop on conversations? Yes or just ask them or Google

Do you ask your opposite gender friends on advice? Yes or Eavesdrop or Google

Do you Google about the Opposite Gender for Advice? Yes or Eavesdrop or Just Ask them.

It helps to have an open mind and remember Men and women other then the naughty bits are pretty similar Psychologically Men are just trained early to keep that stuff held down and put in a box.

Once you have it down you build the character and test them on Role playing sites.

however if you want just ask us. If it's too embarrassing PM us or me.


*Edit*
as for color it has an entire Psychology aspect. Blue for calm, red for agressave, Yellow/green for energy
http://psychology.about.com/od/sensatio ... rpsych.htm

ebi brain wrote:The thing is, I'm not a guy; I most likely don't speak or act like a guy; my inner thoughts are not guy-like; the way I interact with guys is probably different from guy/guy interaction (Something tells me one guy will not tell another guy that his handwriting is very pretty) etc.

Yeah, I think there are a lot of subtle things like that, and it can be very hard to get exactly right, even for professional authors. (I've definitely had experiences where I am reading a novel by a male author, and thinking "They didn't *quite* get the female voice right here" -- I am female -- although as I've gotten older sometimes I even have that experience with female authors and the male voice. The worst I've seen are in the few yaoi series' I've seen, but that might also be because they were aimed at girls.) On the bright side, as long as it's not super obvious like guys commenting on each other's handwriting and playing with each other's hair, I'm pretty forgiving. The genders overlap in a lot more ways than they differ.

Personally, I go by experience, but my experience consists of decades of paying attention... plus I went to a college with a ratio of 4:1, and most of my friends are guys, and I do a lot of programming (seems to be mostly guys doing that), etc. So, I don't think the way I deal with it will necessarily cut it for other writers.

Overall I think it's a good strategy to ask male friends -- hopefully ones who can point out specifics. It also never hurts to pay attention. Eavesdropping on some conversations might be helpful, but I think there's a lot more to it than that. There's a lot you can pick up over time here and there. (Won't help you so much right NOW, but really helps in time.) I agree with the literature and movies suggestion, too. Just start paying a little bit more attention to everything. How men write about men. How women write about men. And vice versa. I think your 99% boy class will help, too.

Writing males was actually tougher for me, despite being male (almost all my friends were and are female). What ended up happening was I'd engage in conversations with my male friends and trying to...absorb? I had to ensure I wasn't doing the whole "forest for the trees" thing, but instead, just picking up the general feel and flow of how they communicated and thought.

I also cheated sometimes and used co-writers. Shh...

I'm actually pretty good at writing female characters, but it honestly depends on their personality. There are different types of girls and guys, so there might be a boyish girl or a girlish man. The best thing to do is simply study their actions and thoughts in media such as books or films.

I have the same problem, or should I say uncertainty, when writing female characters.

So what I did was, I asked someone female to be a sort of 'editor' to help give advice and insights where I may have gone wrong, and it's been very helpful and educative.

I honestly have no idea if I have trouble writing male or female characters, as I often don't end up writing stories where any character has to obviously be male or female (and usually I end up gender flipping several characters in the process anyway). A lot of 'girly' or 'manly' characteristics can be stereotypes, and not every person will display the same characteristics...that thing with the handwriting from the first post reminded me of one of my guy friends who actually does comment on handwriting fairly often, so there's very few absolutes in this kind of thing.

My way of handling this is to just let people read my script and make sure that nothing ends up causing them to do a double take or something. If the script flows naturally to them, and portrays my intentions while they read (and afterwards, when I bug them of their interpretation of the characters), then the writing is fine.

I still have absolutely no idea how 'naturally' male or female any of my dialogue is, nor do I have any clue of the differences between talking to guys and girls in real life (I have about equal friends of both genders).

I've been married for 20+ years. Even to this day my husband and I can't agree on 80% of our thoughts. I usually go with.. if it's a male character.. think of the arguments I've had with my husband and do the exact opposite of what I'd normally do.

This of course isn't a 100% money back guarantee, but it works for me. Plus, living with a caveman allows mw to see his posutre and bad habbits daily, so that helps also.

You really don't have to stress too much about it. I will agree with one of the recent posters that there isn't a whole lot of difference between how men and women think (dodges tomatoes). Okay.. okay, I might be pushing it a bit, but hear me out!

I think most of the differences come from societal expectations instead of gender; and will ultimately get more refined with personality. What I mean is, a character is a character, male or female. If you define the character well enough, then I will have no problem believing that he is a guy or a girl. Example, you can have a totally macho character say "You have nice handwriting!" to another dude. If I believe him as a character, I'll find this kind of ambiguous statement cool, despite it being out of place. If he is a serious kind of guy, the kind that is no nonsense and a bit intimidating, saying "You have nice handwriting", will make me think "He's being sarcastic, isn't he?". It depends on context. As a writer, this is a trial-and-error process, and will consist of reading books, watching movies, observing people and common sense. You need to find your character and hear their "voice" in your head. Once you hear your character's voice, you will give them life and writing something natural will come easy. (Sometimes they will rebel from you too. When you write down something and you hear his voice say "I'm not saying that!", then you have succeeded in making a believable character).

The catch is, this all applies to fiction...

In reality, people in general are more complicated than they seem. If you really want to get into the nitty-gritty, you can read up on Psychology, or just be plain observant. You don't have to eavesdrop or be generally creepy.. But hey.. as writers/artists, I think we've already got that one down pat (haha)! For example, one thing I've noticed is that women are more encouraged to be honest/in touch with their feelings. They can say what they feel and it's alright. Men, on the other hand are more subdued in this area. We tend to hold back and keep the issues hidden unless there is a solution. This isn't normal in a subjective stance, but society has forced us to behave this way. Another example: Men are expected to be good in sports and Mathematics while Women are expected to be good in Communication and Spatial pursuits. You will see all kinds of clues like this. They seem like double standards or stereotypes, but it's your job as a writer to mix and match (and redraft) until you come up with something realistic but interesting.

Sabotage wrote: If you really want to get into the nitty-gritty, you can read up on Psychology, or just be plain observant.

Yes. This!

Don't just interact with people... observe them. Analyze them. Try to find their motivation. Why did she say that? Why does he do this? With enough observation you can construct a "model" of the person in your head and run mental tests with the model. What would this person do if placed in [situation]? How would they respond if asked [question]? What would be the surest way to make them blush... or piss them off? After doing this, try doing some experiments to see how closely this model resembles the real person in question.* Do they react as you predicted? If not, why? What information about this person were you missing that would have helped make your prediction more accurate? Find this information and update your mental model of the person to reflect the new discovery.

After doing this enough times it shouldn't be difficult at all to construct realistic fictional characters of either gender! And you can compare your own independent studies of people with psychological research and personality typing systems. For me it is a lot of fun.

*Citing scientific curiousity as an excuse for purposefully pissing people off is not recommended by me... unless of course the purpose of your social experiment is to see how people react by being told they are the subject of said social experiment

With my most current story, Dies Irae, I took a huge step forward. My casts were usually male dominate with few female characters. They came naturally, so I never had to worry about them being stereotypes or unrealistic. However, when such a huge cast of female characters, I wanted to make sure to give them proper treatment. Though presentations of women are often times horrible, I feel I successfully manage to make mine 'human'.

The technique I used was thus.

I separated the GENDER from the CHARACTER. To me, men and women are the same. The differences in our thoughts and feelings are not solely based on our gender alone. Sure, there is a portion of it that does depend on the gender. But that is usually because as humans, we say men should be like this and women should be like that. We allow ourselves to be molded by others rather than our own interpretation of that said gender.

So I started all my characters, male or female, rather on a 'trait' or 'quirk' and built the character around that. I tried to avoid any and all 'stereotypes' and rather concentrated on WHO is this character. WHERE did they come from. WHAT did they EXPERIENCE. From there, I built the characters personality, way of thinking, etc. So some of my guys are more emotional. Some of my women are less emotional. I mix and match pending on that particular characters way of thinking, ignoring the gender.

If you try too hard, the character will come off fake or forced. Gender, in actuality, should be non-existent at this point. Unless highlight particular attributes.

Anyway. Long story short; build a unique character, ignoring his gender. Build him around the personality, quirks, traits, and history you have designated him. Allow him to become fresh and real. Because the REAL stereotype is assuming this is how a guy should act, feel, or think. Much like the reason why so many people fail to make appropriate female characters.

If that makes any sense...

My usual statement on these things is that you shouldn't worry about gender unless how gender affects people is an essential element to your story. If it isn't, just write characters the Alien way: with no regard for gender until it's time for the casting call (or in the case of VNs, time to actually draw the character). Everyone should have their own unique traits, backgrounds, and so on, and sticking everyone's nature into one of two containers based primarily on hormone levels is unnecessary and limiting. (Remember, gender discrimination makes for boring stories!)

A caveat: If you do this without thinking, it's possible that you'll end up writing more stereotypically 'male' characters, since in our current culture things marked as male interests and issues are the standard, while stereotypically female interests are the deviations. (This can get even more awkward when you look at writing characters of different races.)

I'm a girl; but I'm better at writing guys than girls. I will give you some tips.

-Guys aren't really emotional about day-to-day stuff.
-They are more likely to be sarcastic/complain than lash out or cry.
-When they are happy; they usually are quieter about it than girls are. They may just smile.