Does anyone have an opinion on Oxford (serial) commas?

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cesullivan
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Does anyone have an opinion on Oxford (serial) commas?

#1 Post by cesullivan »

This may be a really weird place to ask this, but...

They come in apple, pear, and banana flavors.
They come in apple, pear and banana flavors.

The comma that I dropped in the second sentence is known as the Oxford or serial comma. When I was in middle/high school I was taught to drop the Oxford comma, but now most U.S. English style guides say to use it. Often, I find myself using it because it seems less controversial than not using it, but I don't really like it. I think it usually disrupts the flow of the sentence, and most of the time it doesn't clear up any ambiguities, which is supposed to be the purpose of having it.

Anyone else have any special feelings towards the Oxford comma? What were you guys taught in school?
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Re: Does anyone have an opinion on Oxford (serial) commas?

#2 Post by trooper6 »

I always use the Oxford comma--because there are cases where things can get confusing if you don't and I think it is important to be consistent.

The two classic examples of where you need the Oxford comma:
*I’d like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God.
*We invited the strippers, JFK and Stalin.
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Re: Does anyone have an opinion on Oxford (serial) commas?

#3 Post by Kjata »

Who gives a f*ck about an Oxford comma?

But seriously, sometimes the Oxford comma is very useful, the following picture demonstrates that.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lroov ... o1_500.jpg

Most of the time it is redundant though.

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Re: Does anyone have an opinion on Oxford (serial) commas?

#4 Post by cesullivan »

Kjata wrote:Who gives a f*ck about an Oxford comma?
Yeah, I know, I'm totally OCD.
Kjata wrote:But seriously, sometimes the Oxford comma is very useful, the following picture demonstrates that.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lroov ... o1_500.jpg
I totally just made that my desktop wallpaper.
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Re: Does anyone have an opinion on Oxford (serial) commas?

#5 Post by LVUER »

I always taught to use comma like OP first example (Indonesian, my native language). But when I first taught English, I was taught the OP second example. I was confused at first but since it's two different language, they simply have different rules.

But now, I just use the comma like Kjata's example.
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Re: Does anyone have an opinion on Oxford (serial) commas?

#6 Post by Meneil »

I usually see and was taught the way your first sentence has it (I am in IL, US). As you said, the second way is still correct, but not used as much. It bothers some people, but probably not most. I would pause an extra second the first time I come across it without the commas, mainly bc I'm not used to seeing it like that. So in short, I would use the first way for your writing. I am sorry it bothers you though >.<

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Re: Does anyone have an opinion on Oxford (serial) commas?

#7 Post by KomiTsuku »

Leaving it out bothers me. It just looks wrong to me without it.

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Re: Does anyone have an opinion on Oxford (serial) commas?

#8 Post by RunicV »

Just my two cents, but use them depending on whether the situation needs it or not.
cesullivan wrote:They come in apple, pear, and banana flavors.
They come in apple, pear and banana flavors.
For example, I would go with the first line.
The first line is clearer, it states that there are three flavours: (apple), (pear) and (banana).
However the second line is more vague, since there might only be two flavours: (apple) and (pear and banana).

If the situation doesn't call for it, eg. "I can only choose one colour; either red, blue or yellow," then I don't think there's a need for it.

Of course, most people are more comfortable with adding a comma since when you read "blue or yellow", there's no pause in your reading to indicate a new item. It seems like adding a comma slows it down and breaks it into two items, so I would personally use it.

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Re: Does anyone have an opinion on Oxford (serial) commas?

#9 Post by OokamiKasumi »

cesullivan wrote:This may be a really weird place to ask this, but...

They come in apple, pear, and banana flavors.
They come in apple, pear and banana flavors.

The comma that I dropped in the second sentence is known as the Oxford or serial comma. When I was in middle/high school I was taught to drop the Oxford comma, but now most U.S. English style guides say to use it...
I write professionally for four different publishing houses, 3 American, and one Canadian. My editors from all four insist that I use the last comma.
They come in apple, pear, and banana flavors.
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Re: Does anyone have an opinion on Oxford (serial) commas?

#10 Post by arachni42 »

Personally, I like using it, but whether you use it is up to you. Either way is correct, but whatever you choose, stay consistent.

Sometimes using it can remove confusion:
I’d like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God. [Your parents are Ayn Rand and God?]

But it can also add confusion:
I’d like to thank my mother, Ayn Rand, and God. [Your mother is Ayn Rand?]

So, whichever. You can always rewrite the sentence.
I'd like to thank God, Ayn Rand[,] and my parents.
Or, heaven forbid:
I'd like to thank Ayn Rand, the most important person in my life ever. Oh yeah, I'd also like to thank God and my parents. They're not as important in my life as Ayn Rand, but they're tied for a close second.

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Re: Does anyone have an opinion on Oxford (serial) commas?

#11 Post by SHiNKiROU »

What I hate about English is that there are controversies in grammar, and the lack of language regulator (because English is spoken in many countries). MLA is the closest to a language regulator. Side question: Are there any other languages with as much controversy in grammar as English? Give me a link.

I live in Canada but I choose to follow American spelling and style guides, even in my essays.
I would only use Oxford commas to avoid ambiguities.

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Re: Does anyone have an opinion on Oxford (serial) commas?

#12 Post by BonBocchan »

Ah, the irregularities and inconsistencies of English...

Really, these days it's all about preference and basically what you think 'feels' right (unless as Kasumi said you're writing for a publisher that wants it a specific way; different publishing houses can have specific requirements when it comes to grammar and spelling). It's like a lot of things in English that used to be conventional, these days they're just not done as much, and so it's not quite as much of a problem when you do something differently.

I'm from Australia, and obviously we use our own form of English as opposed to British or American English, and yet quite recently English teachers have stopped marking the use of American English and whatnot as 'wrong'. It isn't wrong, but technically in Australia we shouldn't be using it.

Another example that I experienced first hand this year at college was the use of semi-colons ... Oh man, it's amazing how little people my age and younger (at least in Australia) know of grammar and the conventions of the English language. My English teacher spent a week's worth of lessons just going over basic grammar and punctuation, especially the semi-colon and how to use it properly. In the end most people didn't really understand, either from not paying attention, or maybe it wasn't explained well, but either way my class was a prime example of how English just isn't taught any more. Some people were horrendous when it came to the vocabulary activities.

There isn't even any consistency between how you're taught to write in high school/college and university here. They all want different things from you, and some are fine with certain things, and others not.

Excuse that little rant ... English classes are pet peeve of mine.

Anyway, English is a strange language, and seems to be becoming more and more flexible in what is accepted as time goes by. There aren't really any other languages quite like English thank God.

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Re: Does anyone have an opinion on Oxford (serial) commas?

#13 Post by Clestae »

I'm also rather OCD about the Oxford comma. I've never met anyone who's against using it, just those who are...sometimes too lazy to, I think :P

I personally think it's necessary because it really does eliminate confusion. Although, I think if you're going to list items that are together, it might be better to put that earlier in the list.

You can include the following to your sandwich!
Tomatoes, pickles, onions, salt and pepper
OR
Tomatoes, salt and pepper, pickles, and onions

Oh the English language...
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Re: Does anyone have an opinion on Oxford (serial) commas?

#14 Post by KaenSe4 »

Oxford commas are definitely the way to go, for me, at least. My high school teacher used to ridicule *heh* the lack of Oxford commas by providing examples such as the ones given by trooper6 and Kjata. I also find the commas pretty useful to clarify series of objects or descriptions.

Trust me, Oxford commas are more useful than most people think.

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Re: Does anyone have an opinion on Oxford (serial) commas?

#15 Post by buttdumpling »

Honestly, since you prefer one way you should stick with it. I prefer the oxford comma, but I use commas too much, heh heh.
Either way can be confusing, so maybe just try to eliminate lists as much as possible from your writing.
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