How do you Start out as a VN Writer/Programmer?

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greenace
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How do you Start out as a VN Writer/Programmer?

#1 Post by greenace »

Hey all!
I'm really keen to start learning how to write and program my own visual novels using Ren'Py.
I'm totally new to programming and Ren'Py. I've been writing as a hobby for a few years now.

My question is, how should someone like me go about learning how to write and program a VN?
Would you suggest to focus writing a full story/script for the VN first before I start learning how to program in Ren'Py?
Or should I write the story/script and learn to program at the same time? Or something else entirely?

I have been trying to write and learn to use Ren'Py at the same time. But I find learning how to use the code distracting while I'm trying to write. So I'll end up either concentrating on the code or the writing. I can't seem to do both at the same time.

I also think the project I have in mind is going to be pretty big.
Should I practise by writing/programming some short VNs just to get in some experience?

What was your first experience like and what would you suggest to someone just starting out in both writing and programming VNs?

Thanks for stopping by~! ^w^

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Re: How do you Start out as a VN Writer/Programmer?

#2 Post by dreamy »

I'd suggest focusing on writing before you get into programming.

When I started my first visual novel, I also wrote everything directly onto the Ren'py engine since I assumed it would help me work faster and, as you had mentioned, it became very distracting and it was hard to source out any problems on the writing due to the different labels and extra statements typed in. Besides, it may also be convenient for you in the long run since you can get a better picture of how things will look like when coded in the engine or if you need to revise anything in the script or even if you realise that you need additional help in programming.

It's also helpful if you start on smaller projects in order for you to get the hang of making visual novels. Most people who start large peojects get overwhelmed quite quickly so it's good to know what you're getting into but by all means, do what you think will work out :)

Good luck with your project!
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Re: How do you Start out as a VN Writer/Programmer?

#3 Post by Parataxis »

I suggest you become familiar with the capabilities of RenPy before you begin writing. You don't have to learn to program in order to do this-- playing a bunch of games made on the engine would be ok--but you will have a 1000% easier job down the line if you have an idea of what sorts of scenarios work well in the visual novel format BEFORE you start writing.

After that, focus entirely on telling your story to the best of your ability. As long as you keep in mind that you are writing FOR REN'PY, you shouldn't run into any problems. There's absolutely no reason to concern yourself with the nitty-gritty programming until at least your second draft.

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Re: How do you Start out as a VN Writer/Programmer?

#4 Post by DarkArcher117 »

The thing with Ren'py is that starting out you shouldn't really need to know how to code. You will need to know how to script, but that's different, and much easier. Customizing and jury-rigging the engine can come later, but your first priority should be simply getting the script right. Practically everything you need to know about basic scripting can be found in the Ren'py's bundled mini-game "The Question". It's a short game that contains most of the common features you might want to use: branching choices, conditional text, sprites, music, etc. So play through that and then look at the script as you play it, this will help you understand how the scripting translates into the visuals you see in-game.

I'd recommend that you write your story as you would normally, then convert it into Ren'py script later. Sort of like dreamy said above, scripting and writing use different mindsets, and I don't think it'd be easy to do a good job at either one while trying to do both. Much easier to write the story out first, then convert it to Ren'py script.

I'd definitely recommend doing some smaller projects in order to get your feet wet. You'll learn a lot, and even if you never show them to anyone, those mini-projects will help you become comfortable and confident. Once you're familiar with the basics of customizing Ren'py, the bigger features you might be planning may seem more feasible.

My first experience was making a VN in 3 weeks or so, so it was pretty hectic. It turned out pretty well though, just remember that, if you ever find yourself unsure how something works, check the documentation and try googling some stuff. Also, don't forget to occasionally have some fun while you're at it :D

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Re: How do you Start out as a VN Writer/Programmer?

#5 Post by Ozitiho »

Here's some advice from a guy who did start out on a huge project with no prior Ren'Py experience. Don't start out on a huge project with no prior Ren'Py experience. UNLESS YOU REALLY WANT TO.

I've been working on this behemoth for 4 years now and frankly it's not going particularly well. It's horribly ineffective. I've rewritten the whole thing four times now. Like, there's not one line left that was in the first draft and that would be fine but I've been editing the script for like 3 years. And that's just the common branch! I mean, come on, right? It's not even good! But I don't consider it a problem because hey, I'm having fun. I'm just not sure anyone else will like it and I'm 100% sure it's not worth the effort.

So here's what you have to ask yourself: Do you want to finish ever? Because if you do, you'll actually save time working on something else first. The experience of finishing and releasing your first game is absolutely invaluable. Don't worry about making it good. Just make it. And then when it's done you put it aside. And after that think about going back to your passion project. If you don't feel experienced enough to do it justice, do another small one. Do two! Starting on a big project you're not ready for is very inadvisable. Except if you don't care about finishing and just want to have fun. Then do your huge project and it will suck and it doesn't matter because you love it to death.

Also, personally I recommend you don't code your script while writing it. Put in all the shows and the plays and the scenes when reading it back a second time. I mean you were gonna review it anyway, right?

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Re: How do you Start out as a VN Writer/Programmer?

#6 Post by YossarianIII »

greenace wrote:Would you suggest to focus writing a full story/script for the VN first before I start learning how to program in Ren'Py?
Or should I write the story/script and learn to program at the same time? Or something else entirely?
This is kind of a lame answer, but the best option is probably to experiment for yourself to see what works better.

Many writers seem to prefer writing out a full script before doing any sort of programming. Personally, I don't. I like writing directly in the script with some coding (no visual or sound assets, but most of the decisions, conversation branches, and variables mapped out). This gives you the option to test it in Ren'Py, potentially making it easier to do more complex branching dialogue.

But if you find the coding distracts from writing or that writing directly in the script discourages revising, then a script or at least an outline might be helpful.

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Re: How do you Start out as a VN Writer/Programmer?

#7 Post by greenace »

DarkArcher117 wrote:The thing with Ren'py is that starting out you shouldn't really need to know how to code. You will need to know how to script, but that's different, and much easier. Customizing and jury-rigging the engine can come later, but your first priority should be simply getting the script right. Practically everything you need to know about basic scripting can be found in the Ren'py's bundled mini-game "The Question". It's a short game that contains most of the common features you might want to use: branching choices, conditional text, sprites, music, etc. So play through that and then look at the script as you play it, this will help you understand how the scripting translates into the visuals you see in-game.

I'd recommend that you write your story as you would normally, then convert it into Ren'py script later. Sort of like dreamy said above, scripting and writing use different mindsets, and I don't think it'd be easy to do a good job at either one while trying to do both. Much easier to write the story out first, then convert it to Ren'py script.

I'd definitely recommend doing some smaller projects in order to get your feet wet. You'll learn a lot, and even if you never show them to anyone, those mini-projects will help you become comfortable and confident. Once you're familiar with the basics of customizing Ren'py, the bigger features you might be planning may seem more feasible.

My first experience was making a VN in 3 weeks or so, so it was pretty hectic. It turned out pretty well though, just remember that, if you ever find yourself unsure how something works, check the documentation and try googling some stuff. Also, don't forget to occasionally have some fun while you're at it :D
Thank you! This advice helped me a lot. ^w^
I was starting to get unconfident...thinking I couldn't pull it off. But how you explained it makes it all seem a lot simpler.
I think I am going to try writing some smaller projects first. By writing as I normally would and then converting it into a basic script in Ren'Py as you suggested. I think this method will work for me.

Thanks again. :D

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Re: How do you Start out as a VN Writer/Programmer?

#8 Post by greenace »

Ozitiho wrote:Here's some advice from a guy who did start out on a huge project with no prior Ren'Py experience. Don't start out on a huge project with no prior Ren'Py experience. UNLESS YOU REALLY WANT TO.

I've been working on this behemoth for 4 years now and frankly it's not going particularly well. It's horribly ineffective. I've rewritten the whole thing four times now. Like, there's not one line left that was in the first draft and that would be fine but I've been editing the script for like 3 years. And that's just the common branch! I mean, come on, right? It's not even good! But I don't consider it a problem because hey, I'm having fun. I'm just not sure anyone else will like it and I'm 100% sure it's not worth the effort.

So here's what you have to ask yourself: Do you want to finish ever? Because if you do, you'll actually save time working on something else first. The experience of finishing and releasing your first game is absolutely invaluable. Don't worry about making it good. Just make it. And then when it's done you put it aside. And after that think about going back to your passion project. If you don't feel experienced enough to do it justice, do another small one. Do two! Starting on a big project you're not ready for is very inadvisable. Except if you don't care about finishing and just want to have fun. Then do your huge project and it will suck and it doesn't matter because you love it to death.

Also, personally I recommend you don't code your script while writing it. Put in all the shows and the plays and the scenes when reading it back a second time. I mean you were gonna review it anyway, right?
Oh wow, 4 years is a long time. You must really love your project! I wish you all the luck with it. ^w^
And thanks for the advice. From what you have said I think it might be best for me to start smaller projects first and then try bigger ones once I have experience.
Thanks again! :D

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Re: How do you Start out as a VN Writer/Programmer?

#9 Post by juunishi master »

I'm also a programmer that also write stories and, surprise, I start writing first and programming later.

And eventhough I took information technology as my major at the college, I always slow when it comes to learn something new. Either it's programming language, script, tools, add-on, plugins, etc, etc, etc.

So, I agree with everyone saying that you should start with something small.

I have similar experience with Ozitiho, but in my case, it's RPGMaker. I downloaded the trial, I decided to bought it, I play around with it, read some basic tutorials and finally thought, "Oh, I can do it! It's not that difficult." aaand I just said to my friend, "Hey, let's make a RPG game based on your books." (She is a writer.) Aaaaand, apparently, it's just too big for myself to handle. I asked help from my other friend and got overwhelmed by his solution. He simply directed me to add switches and this and that for this purpose and that purpose and I just cannot understand anything he said.

(I will ask my friend to become the lead programmer instead of me, so I could just slow down and chew everything one bite at a time).

So, yes, chew one bite at a time and start with something small. It gives you more motivation when you finished something. It's small, but it's okay. You finished it.

(To be honest, I still need to be reminded about "keep it small but finished" every now and then.)

As for which one you shold do first, I suggest do the writing first.

You don't need to make it neatly structured like a novel (remember, you're going to make a visual novel; some description already shown by the visual, no need to write them down).

This is the writing I've done to start my experiment with visual novel using Fungus (Unity): https://docs.google.com/document/d/10wn ... sp=sharing

(Even the story is weird, I suppose.)

When you satisfied with your writing, you can focusing on the programming.

Sometimes it's not the programming that need to be fixed. Sometimes you find out that your sentence is too long. Either split it or shorten it. During this process, you can focus on that because you already finished with the story writing process, right?

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