Secrets behind the one-dimensional MC?

Questions, skill improvement, and respectful critique involving game writing.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Mammon
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 712
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:09 pm
Completed: Pervert&Yandere, Stalker&Yandere
Projects: Roses Of The Thorn Prince
Contact:

Secrets behind the one-dimensional MC?

#1 Post by Mammon »

Hi, my name is Mammon and I was wondering about the nuances and tricks behind the faceless protagonist.

I think we're all aware of this clique: the protagonist is just an everyday nobody when suddenly they're pulled into an amazing adventure to <fill in plot>. Whether it's a beloved movie series like The Matrix, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, an anime like... well pretty much all the anime these days, and whatever other medium you can think of: the protagonist is an ordinary person (Just like you!) that somehow gets involved in the story.

The reason behind this is pretty simple: It's (supposed to be) relateable. The audience is supposed to see this guy/gall and see themselves in 'em. But as a downside, the MC loses almost all character that they have. Opinions, hobbies and skills are non-existent or directly related to the plot. The MC doesn't have any opinion that might alienate them from the audience. They instead have a standard format opinion, like for a shojo: 'no killing!' 'protect the innocent!' or 'I'm going to be the strongest!', that doesn't take any risks.

My own opinion of these cardboard cutout characters, well, I think my phrasing here already explains it. I usually don't like them. There are characters that work in this format, but usually the MC is my least liked character in the story. If they don't entail a lot, even if they have 'character development' during the story, then they are merely an empty husk around whom the story is happening. And the (often literally) faceless MC in VN's are the worst (I'm talking Japanese VN, not Lemmasoft). You're playing a game where you get to know all these interesting characters, yet you don't know anything about the most important character of all? Why and how am I supposed to feel fulfilled with this romance story where I got to know and like a character, when the other half of this new relationship (the MC) is almost an entirely unknown person to me? You may know a few things like whether they have a family, but in the end they are emotionless and any emotional development feels like just a plot device.

My question is: Are there some tricks or tips behind making a good one-dimensional MC? The reason there are so many examples of bad MC's is probably because there are some nuances and tricks behind them that a lot of writers simply don't get. They don't think about this, don't try to implement it into the story or think that something plot related that they added off-screen (which doesn't actually suit the MC at all in some cases) will do.

I myself can also mention a few tricks:
-The surroundings work for a faceless character. When the other characters can carry the story without things relying on the MC, or the MC being a faceless character yet their motivation is one that's the same for anyone, it's not really a problem. Take for example The Loop, the MC doesn't need any motivation or characteristics for the player to know why he's running from a sociopathic clown. (Not saying that the MC has no character in that story, it's just a great example of a story that doesn't need it.)
-While the MC has no character of his own, he does have opinions of and interactions with other characters which indirectly give him a personality.
-The MC does have some character traits. Even if it's for the sake of the plot, having a hobby or outstanding skill can make them have a personality. This does however exclude them from the faceless MC trope once it starts to define them a bit, except for a trait according to a (genre)clique personality.
-The MC has some kind of tragic backstory, this also excludes them from the faceless MC and instead makes them an 'angsty MC', even if they're still as faceless and boring with this backstory known.
(BTW, I find the last three options rather boring and halfassed in most VNs I read, so there's merely contingencies.)

However, there are still stories for which none of the tricks above work. Depending on the plot, there will simply be some stories where the MC simply cannot work without personality in my opinion. Where a faceless MC will be just a boring neccesity.

Why do I ask this? I would like to know if there are any other tricks to the faceless MC to make them more relateable, or if I'm overlooking something in the points above.
I'm asking because I usually cannot get a dialogue or plot to get going if the MC doesn't have a very defined personality. It feels like the other characters are talking to a computer that can answer only the simplest way possible and those conversations don't have a natural flow to where I want them to go. To top that of, I simply cannot get myself to make a story with a faceless MC right now without shifting the protagonist seat to one of the more defined characters, or end up scrapping the story when this doesn't work. Or I add various character traits to the protagonist until they are a very defined after all.

I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, I personally like it that my MCs are unique. Just look at the reviews for Pervert&Yandere, my protagonist and his almost anti-MC behaviour had quite a few people shocked or riled up, but he wasn't unlikeable. And some of the other MC's I'm planning to make are even worse. One of them even shoots an innocent bystander to steal their car in the first 5 minutes of the story and I still have a plan to make him likeable-ish. However, there are also a few promising stories I have that will probably fall flat because of my inability to work with a less defined MC.

So, do you have any tips or tricks to making a good faceless MC, or something else to add here?
Last edited by Mammon on Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImageImage

Want some CC sprites?

mard
Regular
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:38 am
Location: Standing right behind you.
Contact:

Re: Secrets behind the one-dimensional MC?

#2 Post by mard »

Well, I don't tend to do the faceless MC in the stories and books I write, but in the cases where I've seen it that I found it enjoyable and likable, they all had one single common factor. The MC doesn't take an active role, rather acts as more of a bystander, with the story being laid out and driven by the supporting characters. Now then, how you would adapt this style to a VN? I can't really help you with that, as my style of writing has never taken that direction. But in answer to your question, the story is driven not by the MC, but rather by the supporting cast.

To give an example of one instance where this was done well, look at Analogue, A Hate Story. It's a mystery story, but not in the sense of something like Sherlock Holmes. You, the MC, are trying to figure out the history of what took place on the ship by going through the logs. The two AI's present serve to lay out the story before you, and to help you solve the mystery.

In the end, the one-dimensional MC approach works for certain story types, whereas other types if you try to apply that, well, you'll have a train wreck on your hands.
Tend to be a bit quiet, but will help where I can.

Enjoy the drinks folks.

gekiganwing
Lemma-Class Veteran
Posts: 2473
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2004 1:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Secrets behind the one-dimensional MC?

#3 Post by gekiganwing »

Please be careful with the words cliche and clique. Similar spellings, but different meanings...
Mammon wrote:While the MC has no character of his own, he does have opinions of and interactions with other characters which indirectly give him a personality.
-The MC does have some character traits. Even if it's for the sake of the plot, having a hobby or outstanding skill can make them have a personality. This does however exclude them from the faceless MC trope once it starts to define them a bit, except for a trait according to a (genre)cliche personality.
In Chrono Trigger, main character Crono does not have any spoken dialogue. In my opinion, it's the other characters who make the story interesting. The on-screen enemies, each character having distinct abilities, and battle combinations also helped.

In Persona 4, there are some early dialogue options in which the player can make statements about the main character's background. These don't affect the game at all. (In my opinion, it would be interesting if it mattered whether he had extensive basketball skills, or whether he lied about his past.) So why did I like the story? Because it showed how the other characters were struggling with insecurities hidden beneath their surfaces. I also liked the murder mystery plot.

In Tokimeki Memorial Girl's Side, the main character didn't have much dialogue. She occasionally said things, but conversations with other characters were usually short. One reason why I liked TMGS was because its characters were not especially complex. They had few facets to their personality, as well as simple motivations. Another reason why I liked the game was because it emphasized simulation gameplay.

A couple of non-video game examples:

Kenji is the main character in the movie Summer Wars. He's good at math, but seems to have few friends. The story begins when a girl with complex motivations asks him to participate in her great-grandmother's birthday. There are quite a few characters in this two-hour movie, and Kenji is certainly not the most memorable one. However, I ended up liking the film because most of its characters had ordinary concerns and conflicts.

Age is the main character in the movie Patema Inverted. He lives in a militaristic society, but aside from a having a reputation for rebelling, he's kind of a forgettable character. Why did I like the story? The overall sense of wonder in discovering new worlds, and seeing the arguably crazy villain get his comeuppance.
Mammon wrote:I'm asking because I usually cannot get a dialogue or plot to get going if the MC doesn't have a very defined personality. It feels like the other characters are talking to a computer that can answer only the simplest way possible...
Perhaps this could be a plot. Consider writing an artificial construct main character who can speak human languages, but who doesn't know how to interact with people. How do they learn to get along with others? How do they accomplish their goals?

For what it's worth, there's an OJLVN called Hello, World which features a robot protagonist learning how people interact. The story was written over a decade ago, and has never been translated. From what I read from a review on Tomato Conspiracy, it's well-regarded.
Mammon wrote:And some of the other MC's I'm planning to make are even worse. One of them even shoots an innocent bystander to steal their car in the first 5 minutes of the story and I still have a plan to make him likeable-ish.
That's a good goal for a story. Show a major character doing something which would seem villainous. Then reveal their motivations, and show that there's more to them. Ask the reader to think about who they are below the surface, and how they got that way.

User avatar
trooper6
Lemma-Class Veteran
Posts: 3712
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:33 pm
Projects: A Close Shave
Location: Medford, MA
Contact:

Re: Secrets behind the one-dimensional MC?

#4 Post by trooper6 »

One think you can do is not go for one-dimensional. You can have a self-insert starting blank-ish PC that is not one-dimensional.

I would recommend looking to other, related genres to see how they do it. The related genre would be the Western RPG, specifically the work of Bioware. In all their recent RPGs (Knights of the Old Republic, Mass Effect, Dragon Age) you start with a PC...who may have some history defined (sometimes defined by you), but no preset personality. The the game deliberately integrates you defining your character through your choices and interactions and experiences...and then updates your PC accordingly.

I think the conceptual trick for these games is that you have schrödinger's personality. The game assumes your character has a history and a personality, but that it just isn't revealed completely until the player does so.

Another thing that is important is to have a multi-dimensional world. Give the PC something to respond to that is complex to help show the way they are complex.
A Close Shave:
*Last Thing Done (Aug 17): Finished coding emotions and camera for 4/10 main labels.
*Currently Doing: Coding of emotions and camera for the labels--On 5/10
*First Next thing to do: Code in all CG and special animation stuff
*Next Next thing to do: Set up film animation
*Other Thing to Do: Do SFX and Score (maybe think about eye blinks?)
Check out My Clock Cookbook Recipe: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 51&t=21978

User avatar
Sonomi
Veteran
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:34 am
Projects: Lethargy of Snow
itch: sonomi
Contact:

Re: Secrets behind the one-dimensional MC?

#5 Post by Sonomi »

Mammon wrote:I simply cannot get myself to make a story with a faceless MC right now without shifting the protagonist seat to one of the more defined characters, or end up scrapping the story when this doesn't work. Or I add various character traits to the protagonist until they are a very defined after all.

I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, I personally like it that my MCs are unique. Just look at the reviews for Pervert&Yandere, my protagonist and his almost anti-MC behaviour had quite a few people shocked or riled up, but he wasn't unlikeable. And some of the other MC's I'm planning to make are even worse. One of them even shoots an innocent bystander to steal their car in the first 5 minutes of the story and I still have a plan to make him likeable-ish. However, there are also a few promising stories I have that will probably fall flat because of my inability to work with a less defined MC.

So, do you have any tips or tricks to making a good faceless MC, or something else to add here?
I don't have many tips for a faceless main character, but I do have something else to add. This is more of an opinionated reflection on MCs.

I feel the italicized portion of your quote is the path you should take because, to me, that makes for a far more compelling character in general. I think the formula for a good MC is to have him do something, and do that thing based on his beliefs. I don't have to agree with his actions, but the fact that he has a personal reason behind what he does makes him more palatable as a character to me (this works for antagonists too). We all [usually] have reasons for our behavior, and I feel that is where you can/will find your audience relating to the MC.

In the case of P&Y, this is likely why you found unexpected support for your MC, despite his quirks. I believe one comment mentioned his faithfulness as a redeeming quality. People will look for these things in characters: things that they can find admirable or relate to, things that make them a decent person after all, common hobbies, opinions, and even problems that they struggle with in their lives. These are the little pieces that build an engrossing, shared experience. I feel those are often lost when the readers directly insert themselves into the narrative. Someone who is not yourself to relate to. Personally, I read visual novels for the same reason that I enjoy anime, novels, and Korean film—to find myself immersed in the world/life of someone else. So that's probably why I see it this way.

Having said that, it is my opinion that using a blank slate is not necessarily the only way to create an emotional connection with readers. I think that may be misconception generated by earlier VNs, which originated from the dating sim world if I am not wrong. I hope this is helpful.
Image

User avatar
TheJerminator15
Regular
Posts: 161
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:37 pm
Completed: A Sedentary Fist
Projects: Manipulation, Switch Swap, Unnamed Project
itch: jamsandwich
Location: England
Contact:

Re: Secrets behind the one-dimensional MC?

#6 Post by TheJerminator15 »

I think this is an interesting topic, as I myself absolutely abhor one dimensional, self-insert characters, especially in VNs. My main problem in a number of VNs I have played is that they give you this blank slate, but typically give you absolutely no way to craft that character outside of plot related/route changing choices. They give you no way to define this blank, faceless entity.

Take Persona 3 for example, the game starts off in the most typical way for a one-dimensional character. However, there are many incredibly simple dialogue choices that occur very much during the game, be it during plot related events or simple conversations with friends. The choices can typically be boiled down to "nice", "neutral/disinterested", and "being a prick", but they happen so often and are so varied in situations they can help you craft this faceless entity into your own unique character who you have defined, through the most simple of choices. My playstyle for example typically sees the MC start off as a massive asshole and slowly take more and more nice conversation choices to infer development and caring for people. The films also managed to take this bland MC and craft him into a character as well. Persona 4 also expands on it by adding choices for backstory etc. Bioware are also famous for this but I preferred their methods in games like Dragon Age, before they implemented their famous wheel mechanic (something I personally think actually made the chocies worse off).

I think this is what is missing from many VNs, that illusion of choice wth blank MCs. Each choice only changes a line or two or three of dialogue and are incredibly inconsequential, but that's how you best craft these faceless characters. Having a game like Princess Evangile where literally the only choices in the game are to choose what route you want is a big turn off for me, especially when there is a blank MC because there is nothing more boring than watching/playing/reading a story through the eyes of the most dull, bland and generic character with no defining traits with no ability to pick said traits. I don't feel engaged when I read a VN through the eyes of a cardboard cut-out.

All in all, the best advice for a blank MC is to just give them a lot of general, inconsequential conversation choices. Even if they only change a single line and are as basic "nice, neutral or arsehole" like in Persona, it can do wonders. And do it many varied situations, even if it's as basic as at the beach, eating in a restaurant or what you think about a certain subject in class. I felt far more engaged in Persona conversation as the MC than I did in VN I've ever played as a blank MC.

Of course, you could also avoid this entirely by creating an actual defineable personality for your MC as well, which is what I always prefer.
My Current Writing Project: viewtopic.php?f=47&t=37699
Manipulation Teaser Demo: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzJ4E ... zV6TWVaclk

User avatar
Mammon
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 712
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:09 pm
Completed: Pervert&Yandere, Stalker&Yandere
Projects: Roses Of The Thorn Prince
Contact:

Re: Secrets behind the one-dimensional MC?

#7 Post by Mammon »

Wholy wall of text! This post got long! My apologies, everyone!
mard wrote:Well, I don't tend to do the faceless MC in the stories and books I write, but in the cases where I've seen it that I found it enjoyable and likable, they all had one single common factor. The MC doesn't take an active role, rather acts as more of a bystander, with the story being laid out and driven by the supporting characters. You, the MC, are trying to figure out the history of what took place on the ship by going through the logs. The two AI's present serve to lay out the story before you, and to help you solve the mystery. In the end, the one-dimensional MC approach works for certain story types, whereas other types if you try to apply that, well, you'll have a train wreck on your hands.
That is indeed a good way to go about it, and the example of the ship logs is a good way to create a story where the MC's personality is pretty much irrelevant. But I have the problem that when I do such a thing in most cases, that one or more of the supporting cast takes the role of MC which gives some problems with delivering and acting upon exposition. The MC, a clean slate who knows nothing of this world and lore, gets explanations that most characters consider basic knowledge and so indirectly informs the audience. Once the MC gets scrapped on account of being an irrelevant character to the plot and a more defined character takes over, I usually don't know where to put half the exposition without resorting to narration cutscenes. Sorry, I indeed forgot to include this problem in the OP.

gekiganwing wrote:Please be careful with the words cliche and clique. Similar spellings, but different meanings...
I've been using the wrong word all this time? I've shamed my family honour. *commits seppuku*
gekiganwing wrote:In Persona 4, there are some early dialogue options in which the player can make statements about the main character's background. These don't affect the game at all. (In my opinion, it would be interesting if it mattered whether he had extensive basketball skills, or whether he lied about his past.) So why did I like the story? Because it showed how the other characters were struggling with insecurities hidden beneath their surfaces. I also liked the murder mystery plot.
trooper6 wrote:One think you can do is not go for one-dimensional. You can have a self-insert starting blank-ish PC that is not one-dimensional. I would recommend looking to other, related genres to see how they do it. The related genre would be the Western RPG, specifically the work of Bioware. In all their recent RPGs (Knights of the Old Republic, Mass Effect, Dragon Age) you start with a PC...who may have some history defined (sometimes defined by you), but no preset personality. The the game deliberately integrates you defining your character through your choices and interactions and experiences...and then updates your PC accordingly.
I think the conceptual trick for these games is that you have schrödinger's personality. The game assumes your character has a history and a personality, but that it just isn't revealed completely until the player does so.
TheJerminator15 wrote:Take Persona 3 for example, the game starts off in the most typical way for a one-dimensional character. However, there are many incredibly simple dialogue choices that occur very much during the game, be it during plot related events or simple conversations with friends. The choices can typically be boiled down to "nice", "neutral/disinterested", and "being a prick", but they happen so often and are so varied in situations they can help you craft this faceless entity into your own unique character who you have defined, through the most simple of choices. My playstyle for example typically sees the MC start off as a massive asshole and slowly take more and more nice conversation choices to infer development and caring for people. The films also managed to take this bland MC and craft him into a character as well. Persona 4 also expands on it by adding choices for backstory etc. Bioware are also famous for this but I preferred their methods in games like Dragon Age, before they implemented their famous wheel mechanic (something I personally think actually made the chocies worse off).
If you can make it work, I too like this option. However, I'm annoyed by the stories where this doesn't work. They define the main character but it won't have any effect, therefore the player's decisions are pointless and a waste of time. When the author decides correctly on which three paths the reader would like to see, it's indeed a good addition even if it doesn't have any actual effect on the story. Choice of games does it both ways, even if people know they're empty choices it can be a very delightful roleplaying element but sometimes it just feels like you're forced to play the game part of their movie so they can still call it a game.
gekiganwing wrote:
Mammon wrote:I'm asking because I usually cannot get a dialogue or plot to get going if the MC doesn't have a very defined personality. It feels like the other characters are talking to a computer that can answer only the simplest way possible...
Perhaps this could be a plot. Consider writing an artificial construct main character who can speak human languages, but who doesn't know how to interact with people. How do they learn to get along with others? How do they accomplish their goals?
A fun idea, but one of those where one tries to build a plot around a character rather than the other way around. It's like a hpothetical: 'I'm an artist and I make good sprites, but I can't make good expressions' reply: 'What if you make a midget MC and all the characters are so tall compared to her that their faces leave the screen above?' It's a fun idea and a solution to a problem, but not neccesarily a good idea for a project.
gekiganwing wrote:
Mammon wrote:And some of the other MC's I'm planning to make are even worse. One of them even shoots an innocent bystander to steal their car in the first 5 minutes of the story and I still have a plan to make him likeable-ish.
That's a good goal for a story. Show a major character doing something which would seem villainous. Then reveal their motivations, and show that there's more to them. Ask the reader to think about who they are below the surface, and how they got that way.
[/quote]
Jup, that's exactly what I'm planning. With his motivation, this guy can throw a child into a horde of zombies to save himself and still ambiguously be on the good side.
Sonomi wrote:I feel the italicized portion of your quote is the path you should take because, to me, that makes for a far more compelling character in general. I think the formula for a good MC is to have him do something, and do that thing based on his beliefs. I don't have to agree with his actions, but the fact that he has a personal reason behind what he does makes him more palatable as a character to me (this works for antagonists too). We all [usually] have reasons for our behavior, and I feel that is where you can/will find your audience relating to the MC.
Problem is, sometimes these defined features start to become an issue of it's own. That I simply cannot make my MC do something plot-relevant without making it seem like he's going against his own personality. And when you start to add traits to them like religious or political believes, it can get even worse real quick. A problem I had with Richard was his solid disbelief in the effectiveness of the police to the point that he just wouldn't call them in many cases. I had to bend quite a few scenes to accomodate this trait.
Sonomi wrote:People will look for these things in characters: things that they can find admirable or relate to, things that make them a decent person after all, common hobbies, opinions, and even problems that they struggle with in their lives. These are the little pieces that build an engrossing, shared experience. I feel those are often lost when the readers directly insert themselves into the narrative. Someone who is not yourself to relate to. Personally, I read visual novels for the same reason that I enjoy anime, novels, and Korean film—to find myself immersed in the world/life of someone else. So that's probably why I see it this way.
Interesting point. I'm aware that a single redeeming factor can already make a MC more likeable, even if the reader doesn't relate to it. However this can be a problem when the story demands something else later. If the reader gives more worth to a character than the author expected, changing that aspect later may unintentionally cause annoyance. I remember watching 'Mirai Nikki' and liking that Yuki didn't want any friends or social company in the first episode (rather than being an outcast because of shyness or that others want nothing to do with him) so I was gravely annoyed when he suddenly ignored this very trait of his and became needy for friendship.
TheJerminator15 wrote:I think this is an interesting topic, as I myself absolutely abhor one dimensional, self-insert characters, especially in VNs. My main problem in a number of VNs I have played is that they give you this blank slate, but typically give you absolutely no way to craft that character outside of plot related/route changing choices. They give you no way to define this blank, faceless entity.
Same here. The very idea that I'm supposed to relate to someone with no interests, personality and a by society-imposed set of morals which they'll follow blindly, is almost an insult sometimes. And there is the side effect that an indecisive or opinionless character can create a trait by absence of traits: F.e. If the other characters keep helping and approaching him while he keeps complaining about having to help them (snark), the MC will become a 'taker', someone who sees it to be natural to be helped and ask others to do things for him, but who doesn't see the logical implication that he should help others in return.
TheJerminator15 wrote:All in all, the best advice for a blank MC is to just give them a lot of general, inconsequential conversation choices. Even if they only change a single line and are as basic "nice, neutral or arsehole" like in Persona, it can do wonders. Of course, you could also avoid this entirely by creating an actual defineable personality for your MC as well, which is what I always prefer.
Hm, you're right. In certain stories making many choices as roleplaying elements can solve the faceless MC problem. I'm not sure how to resolve the problem of the dialogue with other characters feeling stale without trippling my workload this way, but I think I can resolve the problem in some stories this way.
Last edited by Mammon on Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ImageImageImage

Want some CC sprites?

User avatar
Parataxis
Regular
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:11 pm
Projects: Shadow City, Scribbles!
Tumblr: asktheprismguard
Contact:

Re: Secrets behind the one-dimensional MC?

#8 Post by Parataxis »

I dunno, I guess I have always found blandly characterized main characters to be distinct from truly faceless ones. Like, you can call Harry Potter an audience vessel if you like but he has a few clearly defined character traits that he doesn't really stray from even as he grows as a person. (With some spoilers, he is a character who would snap the elder wand once becoming its master... But not before repairing his own, broken wand.)

I think it's quite possible, even preferable, to have a real character who the writer picks the basic traits of as a baseline for a VN protagonist. Consistent traits, even if those traits are boring and generically likable can do everything to keep your reader from the uncanny valley of "this character is Me but I am not in total control of their actions wtf". Not to mention giving your character real emotions is a lot easier than just assuming your reader has them for scene development. There's no need for every story to have a vibrant 3 dimensional protagonist especially in Visual Novels, but I find very few stories where a 2d protagonist wouldn't be an improvement over a 1d facsimile with all traits scrubbed off.

User avatar
Zelan
Lemma-Class Veteran
Posts: 2436
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:23 pm
Completed: The Dark
Projects: Cosplay Couple
Tumblr: evns
itch: Zelan
Discord: ltnkitsuragi#7082
Contact:

Re: Secrets behind the one-dimensional MC?

#9 Post by Zelan »

Mammon wrote:Problem is, sometimes these defined features start to become an issue of it's own. That I simply cannot make my MC do something plot-relevant without making it seem like he's going against his own personality. And when you start to add traits to them like religious or political believes, it can get even worse real quick. A problem I had with Richard was his solid disbelief in the effectiveness of the police to the point that he just wouldn't call them in many cases. I had to bend quite a few scenes to accomodate this trait.
If your character doesn't want to do what you want him to do, you don't always have to force him or change him. Let him do what he wants for a bit, and see where it takes your story. Maybe it'll even be better than your original story. c:

User avatar
Kuiper
Regular
Posts: 154
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:16 am
Completed: Cursed Lands, Trial by Fire
Projects: Necrobarista, Idol Manager
Organization: Route 59 Games
Tumblr: kuiperblog
Contact:

Re: Secrets behind the one-dimensional MC?

#10 Post by Kuiper »

This may not be answering the question you asked, but I think there's virtue to having an MC who isn't completely "faceless" and presenting them with a bit of a personality.

For example, out of all of the Key VN/KyoAni anime harem protagonists, Yuuichi from Kanon seems to be a favorite among fans because he's not just a blank face; he's a real wise-cracker. Kyon from Haruhi Suzumiya, Hachiman from Oregairu, and Kouhei from Yume Miru Kusuri all seem to be fairly "generic" male high school protagonists who are improbably surrounded with female classmates, but all three of them have a bit of a cynical streak to them.

Point being, I think that one of the best things you can do to have an MC who is in some way "endearing" is just to give them a bit of personality. Note that all of the examples above are actually examples of fairly "reactive" protagonists, and they tend to be the most "normal" characters in the story in spite of their personality. Kyon is "just some dude," who is surrounded with aliens, time travelers, espers, and a girl who might literally be a god. The fact that Kyon the most "normal" member of the crew doesn't mean that he has to be a boring character. (In fact, in terms of personality, he's one of the more interesting members of the cast.) Part of the goal of having a "faceless" or otherwise featureless protagonist is to give someone they can relate to, but simply making a person fairly "normal" while also having a bit of personality can be enough for the audience to relate to them. At a certain point, I think that protagonists tend to be more memorable when the read to the audience less as "this character is me" and instead more as "I like this character."
Necrobarista - serve coffee to the living and the dead
Idol Manager - experience the glamour and dangers of the pop idol industry
Cursed Lands - a mix of high fantasy and gothic horror

User avatar
Mammon
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 712
Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:09 pm
Completed: Pervert&Yandere, Stalker&Yandere
Projects: Roses Of The Thorn Prince
Contact:

Re: Secrets behind the one-dimensional MC?

#11 Post by Mammon »

Parataxis wrote:I dunno, I guess I have always found blandly characterized main characters to be distinct from truly faceless ones. Like, you can call Harry Potter an audience vessel if you like but he has a few clearly defined character traits that he doesn't really stray from even as he grows as a person.
I think it's quite possible, even preferable, to have a real character who the writer picks the basic traits of as a baseline for a VN protagonist. Consistent traits, even if those traits are boring and generically likable can do everything to keep your reader from the uncanny valley of "this character is Me but I am not in total control of their actions wtf". Not to mention giving your character real emotions is a lot easier than just assuming your reader has them for scene development. There's no need for every story to have a vibrant 3 dimensional protagonist especially in Visual Novels, but I find very few stories where a 2d protagonist wouldn't be an improvement over a 1d facsimile with all traits scrubbed off.
Yes, but the actual tricks to make this distiction between a bland and a faceless character is what I'm after. How to make a regular guy without really any true or outstanding traits interesting? The funniest trick I know is the Matrix: Keanu Reeves has almost no distinct facial expressions and exactly because of this lack of acting skills he became reliable as an average person because there was no emotion in him that could be different from what the audience was expecting.

With Harry Potter, I'm primarily referring to his role and the role of others around him. He's without opinion most of the time, or rather his opinion is exactly what it should be under the circumstances without real personal nuance. And his friends are made to make him average: the rather dumb and impulsive Ron and the very clever Hermoine make Harry the average middle guy of the group. However, once Harry started to have some actual dreams of his own such as wanting to become a magical detective (I don't remember what their pig-latin name for it was) it felt like it came out of nowhere without real foundation, and his use of the forbidden spell that forces people to do things was also a much more dark turn all of a sudden. (I'm not sure if these are in the movies, I read the books)
Zelan wrote:
Mammon wrote:Problem is, sometimes these defined features start to become an issue of it's own. That I simply cannot make my MC do something plot-relevant without making it seem like he's going against his own personality. And when you start to add traits to them like religious or political believes, it can get even worse real quick. A problem I had with Richard was his solid disbelief in the effectiveness of the police to the point that he just wouldn't call them in many cases. I had to bend quite a few scenes to accomodate this trait.
If your character doesn't want to do what you want him to do, you don't always have to force him or change him. Let him do what he wants for a bit, and see where it takes your story. Maybe it'll even be better than your original story. c:
I did change the story and fortunately it worked like a charm, however I fear that one day it may not work.
Kuiper wrote:For example, out of all of the Key VN/KyoAni anime harem protagonists, Yuuichi from Kanon seems to be a favorite among fans because he's not just a blank face; he's a real wise-cracker. Kyon from Haruhi Suzumiya, Hachiman from Oregairu, and Kouhei from Yume Miru Kusuri all seem to be fairly "generic" male high school protagonists who are improbably surrounded with female classmates, but all three of them have a bit of a cynical streak to them.
Point being, I think that one of the best things you can do to have an MC who is in some way "endearing" is just to give them a bit of personality. Note that all of the examples above are actually examples of fairly "reactive" protagonists, and they tend to be the most "normal" characters in the story in spite of their personality. Kyon is "just some dude," who is surrounded with aliens, time travelers, espers, and a girl who might literally be a god. The fact that Kyon the most "normal" member of the crew doesn't mean that he has to be a boring character. (In fact, in terms of personality, he's one of the more interesting members of the cast.) Part of the goal of having a "faceless" or otherwise featureless protagonist is to give someone they can relate to, but simply making a person fairly "normal" while also having a bit of personality can be enough for the audience to relate to them. At a certain point, I think that protagonists tend to be more memorable when the read to the audience less as "this character is me" and instead more as "I like this character."
A yes, that's what I meant with 'snark'. I know that's not a real word but I once heard an anime reviewer use it to describe Kyon as the 'king of snark' and now that word is just engraved in my brain as the term for that behaviour. A wise cracker can also work to refer to that, but it doesn't cover their annoyance over having to put up with what they have to do. However I've also seen a lot of VN where this backfired and I started to loath the character. If the MC keeps complaining whenever he had to do something for others while asking favours themselves, it resulted in a 'taker' character as I described before.

But don't worry, your post was actually pretty much on point in regard to answering my questions.
ImageImageImage

Want some CC sprites?

User avatar
Zelan
Lemma-Class Veteran
Posts: 2436
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:23 pm
Completed: The Dark
Projects: Cosplay Couple
Tumblr: evns
itch: Zelan
Discord: ltnkitsuragi#7082
Contact:

Re: Secrets behind the one-dimensional MC?

#12 Post by Zelan »

Snark is definitely a word. ;)

Anyway, to your original point - I think you've really already answered it yourself.
Mammon wrote:I myself can also mention a few tricks:
-The surroundings work for a faceless character. When the other characters can carry the story without things relying on the MC, or the MC being a faceless character yet their motivation is one that's the same for anyone, it's not really a problem. Take for example The Loop, the MC doesn't need any motivation or characteristics for the player to know why he's running from a sociopathic clown. (Not saying that the MC has no character in that story, it's just a great example of a story that doesn't need it.)
-While the MC has no character of his own, he does have opinions of and interactions with other characters which indirectly give him a personality.
-The MC does have some character traits. Even if it's for the sake of the plot, having a hobby or outstanding skill can make them have a personality. This does however exclude them from the faceless MC trope once it starts to define them a bit, except for a trait according to a (genre)clique personality.
-The MC has some kind of tragic backstory, this also excludes them from the faceless MC and instead makes them an 'angsty MC', even if they're still as faceless and boring with this backstory known.
The others in this thread have tried to answer your question as well. What I think it really sums up to is this:

Nobody really likes a faceless MC that much. It only works when it works - in other words, when a faceless MC suits the story.

Most of the people who have replied to this thread (including myself, now) have expressed that they prefer their MCs to be at least a little defined.

If your really want a tip, the most broad one that I can think of to cover most situations would be in stories where the action itself matters more than the characters within the action.

An imperfect example of this is Cormac McCarthy's book The Road. The two protagonists are never named once in the whole book - they are only ever referred to as 'the boy' and 'the man.' This is intentional; the book takes place in a post-apocalyptic America, making the point that, in the end, the characters don't matter. The fact that they survived, or didn't, will not matter. No one will remember them, and they won't leave anything behind. (It should be noted that even in this book, where the technique 'fit,' I didn't like it. I had no reason to care about the characters and the book just dragged on and on. I was able to objectively appreciate the writing and the author's choices, but I was very, very glad to finally be able to put the book down forever.)

User avatar
Katy133
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 704
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:21 pm
Completed: Eight Sweets, The Heart of Tales, [redacted] Life, Must Love Jaws, A Tune at the End of the World, Three Guys That Paint, The Journey of Ignorance, Portal 2.5.
Projects: The Butler Detective
Tumblr: katy-133
Deviantart: Katy133
Soundcloud: Katy133
itch: katy133
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Secrets behind the one-dimensional MC?

#13 Post by Katy133 »

A "trick" I like with one-dimensional/"ordinary" main characters is having them not speak. Either a) they're mute, b) their dialogue is summed-up in the narration rather than as dialogue, or c) their player choices are action choices rather than dialogue choices.

If you study silent/pantomime films, you'll find that it's harder to dislike a silent protagonist. This is because we have to imagine what the character is thinking, rather than have it spelt out to us through dialogue. The former requires us to project a bit of ourselves onto the character, making them more identifiable to us.

Often, a major, recurring pitfall I see writers make when writing an "ordinary" protagonist is that the character will say something that makes me dislike them (they come off as too bratty, too oblivious, too obnoxious, etc). As soon as you make a character talk, you remove the possibility of the character being totally vague or faceless: Their dialogue gives away things like their upbringing, the slang they use, their speech patterns, opinions, and so on.
ImageImage

My Website, which lists my visual novels.
Become a patron on my Patreon!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users