Critique wanted

[dfbreezy]

Hello Lemmasoft, I was hoping i could get some valuable critique and feedback from the community towards my first attempt at prose which took the form of a star wars fan-fiction with original characters and plot.

Here is the link: https://www.wattpad.com/myworks/9173599 ... -dark-jedi

Any form of helpful feedback would be appreciated!

[Mammon]

I've read the prologue and first episode, and I have to say your writing is quite good. The pacing, choice of words and descriptions of your actions and enviroment were well done. I had no motivational problems clicking on the 'next episode' button which is a higher bar for any story than you'd might think.

Feedback for improvement:
As I already said your descriptions were quite good, but I have to make an exception for how you described the characters. Those descriptions just felt awkward how they were delivered, and describing someone's nose and mouth doesn't even paint a good description. I know your MC has black hair and your god sith has black eyes but the rest of the descriptions were both de-immersing and forgotten soon enough.

The same trend seems to repeat itself in the delivery of plot-relevant elements. Your MC's backstory of his dead parents and the bystanders telling the audience that the guy who stole MC's drink is a jedi-hunter were both added for the sake of being added, or so it felt. If you don't know how to add these pieces of information fluently into the story or don't get the chance for it, you might want to exclude them entirely. Try to work them in later when they do work, rather than forcing them in for exposition sake. Or rewrite the scene to allow these elements to be fluenty implemented if they do need to be added.

And one small thing from which I don't know if it'll be a reoccurring thing or just something you overlooked once: When the hunter drew his gun and MC jumped up to deflect these with his lightsabre, how? Just how? The hunter was sitting close enough to just grab the MC's drink and touch him without getting up, which means they were about 0,5m away from each other. There simply wasn't any room for MC to swing around his blade without also amputating the hunter's legs.


On to the fanfic-related part of my feedback, which I separated from the rest because this is where I see the biggest problems for this story in the future. That is, I can almost see the Mary Sue-ism developing to become a real problem from chapter 2 and onward. You did not only take Star Wars, one of the most Mary Sue franchises out there(: A jedi can do pretty much anything because of the force, which worked for the movies because they were made in a time where the visuals and action still wow'd the audience but it won't work for anything made these days), you chose some rather angsty characters to be your main cast as well. And that is a very tricky situation not to screw up.

The reason why these first two chapters weren't Mary Sue yet was because they were the first two chapters. With some goodwill from the audience, they still count as the 'badass introduction' of a character. The disposable enemies were there to give the audience an idea of the main cast's motivations, powers and morality. This in the same way that an action movie's first scene is something filled with explosions and fighting that establishes the character as a badass, even if this scene has little to nothing to do with the actual plot of the movie. Starting from your next chapter however, this advantage will no longer be there to help you. If the sense of the hero having things too easy (which is a thought that I still had in the prologue despite his problems, because creating actual conflict when there's the force is just that problematic to a writer.) continues the Mary Sue-ism will become a real problem within your story I'm afraid. Especially with a Jedi or Sith you'll really have to work to make the conflict feel not fabricated.

My most concrete advice on how to avoid such Mary Sue is to keep in mind what The Emperor, Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker can do. As they are supposed to be the most powerful force-wielders around during the period where your story takes place, your own characters cannot supercede that level of power. Unfortunately your god of the force already did so, stopping laserbeams like seen in the last SW movie, creating a forcefield around an entire village and using some kind of near-omniscient echo location are already beyond the scope of what powers you shold be using. And be very careful with that, these are the kind of powers that will make your MC's eventual victory feel false because there's no way to best such an opponent with the MC's current power, and making him even more powerful to solve this is also a very bad decision due to Mary Sue complex.

Coming back on the 'angsty characters' bit, this too is something to keep in mind. A Jedi MC is already a big risk as I explained above, but making a MC that is both Jedi and Sith yet unbound to the weaknesses of either belief is an even bigger problem. Giving him a katana lightsabre (which I assume is just a regular lightsabre with a custom design, because there should be no difference in use as it's not an actual blade), an uniquely colored force, dead parents and extra high sensitivity to the force, are all adding to that angst.

[dfbreezy]

Heyya Mammon and thanks for the quality pointers! I definitely did not notice those when writing and i believe it's due to my amateurism haha.

However, i thought i could disclose some of my plans for the story which may or may not alleviate your worries, but i'd like you to evaluate them for me if you have the time.

I'll spoiler tag it for those who want to (Hopefully) read the full thing when i work on it again.

Basically, i'm a hardcore Star Wars fanatic and i did hours of research on the nature and history of the force. Then i realized that like you said, there are many Mary Sue protagonists in the canonical universe. However, i was alarmed that no one thought of a characterization like Cairo or Rilak. Let me explain a bit about their background and conflicts.

Cairo: He is the younger brother of Star Killer from the Force Unleashed. He was well hidden when Darth Vader came to Endor and as such, witnessed as his brother was taken away by the Sith. Darth Vader, when sensing Star killer, Distinctly made a comment about how he sensed a strong presence of the force. Unbeknownst to him, there were two force users there of identical power which he could not distinguish. Cairo grew up with hatred and anger in his heart making him an almost natural-born Darksider. But unlike most Darksiders, Cairo never embraced his hate and still possessed passion and empathy within him (although he'd be damned to show it). As such, he became much closer to the roots of the force as opposed to those who had dogmatically given the force classifications and embraced only one side. Hence his ability to "Converse" with the force and his apparent youthfulness and handsomeness even though he has used the dark-side since birth (Like his brother). Cairo himself is generally apathetic and lives life as it comes.

Rilak: Now Rilak has a very good reason for being even more powerful than the Skywalkers. It is because, for all intents and purposes, he is somewhat like a God. This was due to his unfortunate upbringing. Rilak was born to an underage Roscan woman who sold him off as a baby due to her inability to take care of him. Due to unfortunate events that I've yet to detail, he was dumped into the Dark side Nexus on Mortis and was left there for 15 years, greatly absorbing the dark side energies there. (Think of Superman prime)

His need to set despair into the hearts of beings is not a necessity, but a hobby. This guy is the real deal. He's what you would get if the Joker from DC and Superman had a child.

As for the story elements, i plan for this one to be {i}very{/i} philosophical as opposed to purely entertainment. The philosophy of the Force, how both "Sides" affect it, how emotions can make or break a human and how truly weak a Mary Sue can be.

Oh and Also, as with every story, there's going to be a woman involved and introduced in chapter 2. She is like Rey. Another force sensitive, who is the polar opposite of Cairo. She loves both sides of the force, but can use neither of them efficiently. Her conflicts and chemistry with Cairo are my selling points for the story's entertainment bit.

And one small thing from which I don't know if it'll be a reoccurring thing or just something you overlooked once: When the hunter drew his gun and MC jumped up to deflect these with his lightsabre, how? Just how? The hunter was sitting close enough to just grab the MC's drink and touch him without getting up, which means they were about 0,5m away from each other. There simply wasn't any room for MC to swing around his blade without also amputating the hunter's legs.

I guess i didn't describe it as well as i pictured it. Cairo sensed Roban's next action with the guns and was already in action. As we see in the star Wars movies, Jedi have mad reflexes and speed as well as that Super Mario level jumping they have. As for the mechanics itself, he leapt from his seat high into the air and landed a short distance away. He blocked the blaster bolts with the side of his katana-saber since it cannot block them head-on, while {i}upside down{/i} or still airborne. Now he did not swing his saber at all. He just positioned it in the way of the fire. I will have to design a better description to properly capture this in the story.

Once again thanks for reading my story, and this long post.

[Mammon]

i believe it's due to my amateurism.

There isn't a lot of amateurism in the sense what you mean. (What I assume you mean: Bad and unorganised, rather than it's specific description; not getting paid for it.) The story structure and such are well made. When I read the descriptions of your characters I first thought this was because you're used to writing VN's where such descriptions aren't neccesary.

Basically, i'm a hardcore Star Wars fanatic and i did hours of research on the nature and history of the force. Then i realized that like you said, there are many Mary Sue protagonists in the canonical universe.

I might have to mention that I'm not really that well-versed in Star Wars, I haven't even seen the last movie yet (and I'm not talking about the one about to come out this week). Ironically I have seen that scene about Cairo's brother though, that's from first level of that game where you can pick up people and throw them off the map, trying to have them grab on to others while you do it, right? Seen that scene (and nothing else of the game ) in a let's play, where Darth Vader suddenly decides to adopt young Star Killer.

So most deeper lore will be lost on me, I'm afraid.

Rilak: Now Rilak has a very good reason for being even more powerful than the Skywalkers. It is because, for all intents and purposes, he is somewhat like a God. This was due to his unfortunate upbringing. Rilak was born to an underage Roscan woman who sold him off as a baby due to her inability to take care of him. Due to unfortunate events that I've yet to detail, he was dumped into the Dark side Nexus on Mortis and was left there for 15 years, greatly absorbing the dark side energies there. (Think of Superman prime)

I admit I know little from the Star wars lore, but from what I do remember there's a rule:
There are only two; Master and Apprentice. Never more, never less.
While there are no strict rules for there being only two Sith in the universe as far as I'm aware, this does seem to be a rule that the Emperor enforces. Either he or Darth Vader had to go if Luke Skywalker were to turn to the dark side, and he didn't even try to educate any of the young padawan in the ways of the Sith. Anakin slaughtered them all when the two of them took over.
So another Sith, especially one as strong as Rilak, would be hunted down by the Empire just like a Jedi, wouldn't they? Whether they'd be able to is another matter. Of course it's possible that I'm either taking this movie canon too literal or that I misinterpretated it.

As for the story elements, i plan for this one to be {i}very{/i} philosophical as opposed to purely entertainment. The philosophy of the Force, how both "Sides" affect it, how emotions can make or break a human and how truly weak a Mary Sue can be.

If you manage to actually do so (putting a very high bar for yourself though,) this would indeed solve the issues that I see on the horizon.

Oh and Also, as with every story, there's going to be a woman involved and introduced in chapter 2. She is like Rey. Another force sensitive, who is the polar opposite of Cairo. She loves both sides of the force, but can use neither of them efficiently. Her conflicts and chemistry with Cairo are my selling points for the story's entertainment bit.

A counteractive force would work well. One of the biggest issues (that I forgot to mention in my previous post) is that Cairo seemed to be a lone wolf. And the only thing more Mary Sue than a force user, is a force user without anyone else in the main cast.

Actually, I was thinking about how to make a good story with a Jedi protagonist between my last post and this one, and I realised that the original trilogy doesn't do this. Luke is the MC in the beginning, but the moment conflict arises in the form of the Empire tracking them down, this role is passed on to a character who's conveniently introduced 5 minutes before: Han Solo. It's his piloting skills and tactical experience that get them through these initial tough times, not Luke's force. Han Solo and the other supporting cast call the shots all the way to the end of the movie, when the baton is passed back to Luke for a while: blowing up the Death Star, fighting Darth Vader

I am your father!

, and the eventual victory against the Emperor. Before those endings the conflict is handled and resolved by the others, with the exception of certain conflict-free moments like training on Dagobah.

If you can get your philosophical approach right, this won't be neccesary. But if it's not, you might want to remember to not let Cairo handle any of the mid-story conflicts and instead introduce some other characters to deal with these in his stead. A strange thought that the strongest character of the main cast needs to be protected by normals, but maybe neccesary. Dragonball Z is actually a more clear example than Star Wars in this regard: Goku might be the MC, but he doesn't actually show up until the end. He never even saw Freeza's first form or imperfect Cell, those had to be handled by the rest. The less powerful have to step up until the climax is at hand.

I guess i didn't describe it as well as i pictured it. Cairo sensed Roban's next action with the guns and was already in action. As we see in the star Wars movies, Jedi have mad reflexes and speed as well as that Super Mario level jumping they have. As for the mechanics itself, he leapt from his seat high into the air and landed a short distance away. He blocked the blaster bolts with the side of his katana-saber since it cannot block them head-on, while {i}upside down{/i} or still airborne. Now he did not swing his saber at all. He just positioned it in the way of the fire. I will have to design a better description to properly capture this in the story.

That's actually exactly as I pictured it, but I also pictured him to be sitting on a regular bar stool: his feet are practically dangling in the air meaning he can't jump regardless of Jedi powers. Although this is me overanalysing, most people won't even think of that, much less as they're reading it. But the second half of the problem is that Roban, as close as he was, fired the blaster pretty much at point blank. Jumping wouldn't help in such a situation, jedi or not. He simply cannot draw and position the lightsabre without harming Roban in the process. The other events that happened before this scene just position the two of them that close together, to the point where they're pretty much breathing in each other's faces. If Cairo would slap the gun aside, that would make more sense.