Any suggestions on how to strengthen this external conflict?

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Yunou
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Any suggestions on how to strengthen this external conflict?

#1 Post by Yunou »

TL;DR Here is a quick summary of the events/goals of my story: any suggestions on making the external conflict stronger? Also, I don't know if the main conflict is super compelling or how to make it more compelling...

Edit: I decided to tighten/add to my summary with what I expounded on below.

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Last night I was watching "29 Screenwriting Mistakes" and I am pretty confident about most of them except number 1: "There Isn’t A Clear External Goal For The Main Character". It states that realising the foundation of the story--the visible goal the hero wants to cross at the end of the story--is one of the most difficult things for writers and that writers gets caught up in the inner journey of the hero, the themes, or the premise, that it becomes so complicated that there is no real story occurring.

Here is where I am not 100% confident.

In my story, there is a lot of internal conflict going on but I'm not sure how strong or interesting the external conflict is.

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The premise of this story is when everyone in this society turns eighteen years old, they take a test that determines everything about their future. It determines who they will marry, what their job is, how much money they will make, if they can have children, what district (caste-based system) they will live in, all wrapped up as this perfect utopian society in which the test "knows what's best for you" and what will make you most happy.

In order to train for their future jobs and meet their spouse, they all live at the testing/educational training facility for about nine months until they move into their permanent housing and are placed in externships depending on the profession.

My story starts out with my MC going through the motions of beginning a program he has no interest in. Since the program selects spouses for each citizen, MC is forced to break up with his boyfriend who has been living with MC's family since they both were children who he is still very much in love with. His ex-boyfriend refused to take the test which is pretty much unheard which leaves MC bitter because although he knew they wouldn't be matched, it's a pretty stupid thing to do.

In order to complete the program, MC must work with a small group of other students to complete a research project that everyone considers pointless, but after a few months, their research takes them in a direction they never expected and one that they aren't really authorized to be looking into. A large chunk of the external conflict is simply completing this project on time so they can graduate. The group procrastinates at first until they are up against a wall to complete it in time, and even then, their advisor informs them that they can't work on that particular topic so they end up doing a lot of the work in secret.

The problem is that the research project is essentially one of those "they uncover a secret government conspiracy" which directly leads MC to uncovering the truth about an event that has haunted him since his childhood. This event he's wanted to forget but now that he knows what happened, he is pissed and makes some bad decisions because of it. The conspiracy itself isn't particularly shocking in itself as if it was uncovered, most people would not care at all because it simply doesn't affect them.

There is an antagonist who is using the system to take advantage of not only MC, but two people that MC cares about very much, which makes him much more personally invested in uncovering more about the conspiracy. He feels like if he can "save" one person he just met, then he's saving someone from his past, but then finds out that the antagonist is setting him up to be in a similar position to those he is trying to save so then it is a matter of saving himself.

The whole project is important for forcing my MC to discover things about himself and society, but the heart of the story is MC's interactions with the people around him--dealing with his own mental health, balancing his relationships, and making some not-so-healthy decisions. Also, 30% or more of the story is flashbacks and each path has their own subplots relating to the main storyline.

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So back to the first thing, the "visible goal the hero wants to cross at the end of the story" for my MC is simply to go through the motions and complete a program he hates. Here's where I'm stuck: MC uncovers a government secret which leads him down a rabbit hole. He knows he can't change it, but he wants to propose a way to mitigate any undue suffering caused because of it that benefits both sides of the issue, but the government is not interested in that.

Additionally, this particular system is being used by the antagonist to take advantage of two people close to MC and is setting MC up to be in the same situation as them. MC has to try to not only save himself, but save those around him from being harmed by the system.

I know exactly how it ends, I know how it begins, but I just feel like MC kind of meanders at a critical point of the plot.

Any help would be super appreciated!
Last edited by Yunou on Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:16 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Any suggestions on how to strength this external conflic

#2 Post by Lodratio »

Here's a thesis: All meaningful conflict is a conflict of emotions and/or ideals. Whether you want to externalize it or have it remain internal depends on the medium and your own preferences. The screenplay is a visual medium, so you want to externalize conflict to make it visible. With visual novels it's really up to you, so that advice just doesn't apply in this case.

Speaking more generally, I wouldn't worry too much about the rules as long as you are aware of them and have a reason for stepping out of the boundaries they create. They're not absolute by any means.

"The whole project is important for forcing my MC to discover things about himself and society, but they heart of the story is MC's interactions with the people around him--dealing with his own mental health, balancing his relationships, and making some not-so-healthy decisions. Also, 30% or more of the story is flashbacks and each path has their own subplots relating to the main storyline."
seems too slice-of-lifey and fragmented as far as internal conflict for the purposes of telling a story goes though. It's missing a central theme, something to tie all of those other problems you want to explore into a single whole. That might be what you're going for with the secret government conspiracy, but from the way you've summarized it that doesn't seem to be that central to your plans for this story, and even if it does I'm not sure how it translates into a meaningful inner conflict. What does your MC discover about himself and how does it affect him? Is it something that is central enough to his life and his view of the world to really impact him, not just emotionally but philosophically?

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Re: Any suggestions on how to strength this external conflic

#3 Post by Yunou »

Lodratio wrote: seems too slice-of-lifey and fragmented as far as internal conflict for the purposes of telling a story goes though. It's missing a central theme, something to tie all of those other problems you want to explore into a single whole. That might be what you're going for with the secret government conspiracy, but from the way you've summarized it that doesn't seem to be that central to your plans for this story, and even if it does I'm not sure how it translates into a meaningful inner conflict.


Thanks so much for your input!

The central theme that ties everything together, I think, is that there is no perfect system without inherent flaws--but it all really depends on how you look at an imperfect system that determines whether it is corrupt or "for-the-greater-good". I don't know if that makes sense at all. The society offers great protection and security but it sacrifices individual freedoms. It's trope-y, but everything is a trope.

All the characters kind of struggle with this. Some characters understand these flaws and use them to their advantage, others are taken advantage of by it, others are oblivious to it, etc. MC sees the good and the bad. His ex-boyfriend wanted run away with him to a neighboring, high-crime city where they could be together, but MC thinks that is really dangerous and doesn't want to leave his family. MC begins to see the really bad parts of the society, though, but struggles to ignore it or blame it on something else as the story progresses.
Lodratio wrote: What does your MC discover about himself and how does it affect him? Is it something that is central enough to his life and his view of the world to really impact him, not just emotionally but philosophically?


Discovering this government secret is pretty key to how he understands the world. He trusted it and believed in it, or wanted to, but now he has undeniable proof that it's fucked up at it's core in some ways. Not only that--but the secret itself tore his family apart at an early age and left some pretty huge scars that no one wants to talk about.

The choices of the player kind of determine how he reacts to this information on a philosophical level to some degree, but most of the choices are a facet of how he is feeling anyway. Eventually, he can accept it and understand it's purpose, but instead of those around him who insist it needs to be broken or overthrown, he thinks it just needs to be fixed.

What impacts him the most, though, is not necessarily the secret itself, but what happened to him as a child because of it. He's trying to come to terms with how his family was torn apart and then realises that certain people he thought he could trust know way more about what happened than they originally let on and are playing the system while taking advantage of him. The antagonist isn't the system, but someone who is directly using the system to hurt people including the MC.

I'm sorry if that is long, but your questions are really helpful to getting me to understand the core of my story.

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Re: Any suggestions on how to strength this external conflic

#4 Post by SundownKid »

Yes, it does sound like your story lacks a visible external goal.

It's kind of like if you had a Harry Potter book where Harry's goal was just "to complete this year of school". If you read the books you know that there's always some more pressing matter WITHIN the school to deal with, like winning the Triwizard Cup for example.

So going to X program is just the backing setting, a means to an end, not the goal. It needs something WITHIN the program that has to be his goal.

In any case, having that many flashbacks isn't the greatest storytelling device. It pulls people away from their interest in the main story and has heavy possibility of making people bored because of this.

You have no logline that you can use to market your story. "This guy goes to school and discovers an evil conspiracy". So what? What will draw people to it and make them interested. It certainly isn't the main character's past, it's what's going on in the present.

You could perhaps give him a more reactive stance. Maybe he discovers some evil conspiracy early on and then tries to destroy it.

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Re: Any suggestions on how to strength this external conflic

#5 Post by Yunou »

SundownKid wrote:Yes, it does sound like your story lacks a visible external goal.

It's kind of like if you hada Harry Potter book where Harry's goal was just "to complete this year of school". If you read the books you know that there's always some more pressing matter WITHIN the school to deal with, like winning the Triwizard Cup for example.

So going to X program is just the backing setting, a means to an end, not the goal. It needs something WITHIN the program that has to be his goal.
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to figure out how to fix. The program is definitely just the setting, I just don't know how long into a story the immediate goal should be apparent. Eventually his goals are to uncover research for a project he is not supposed to be working on and that risks not only the project getting halted, but all his research seized, him not graduating, and all of them involved in the group losing their standing in society or even placed on a government watch list.
SundownKid wrote:
In any case, having that many flashbacks isn't the greatest storytelling device. It pulls people away from their interest in the main story and has heavy possibility of making people bored because of this.
I totally get that, although these flashbacks are pretty crucial to the plot. There is serious tension between three main characters that would really undermine the drama and be confusing if it was just stated, "I hate him because _____ happened." The flashback is pretty much a subplot that pushes what is going on in the present forward while explaining why the tension is there and it follows a single series of events. It is broken up into short segments, though.

30% is probably an overestimation because I haven't sat down and written these flashback scenes yet. Each flashback itself is actually pretty short, sometimes only a few lines, other times a whole scene, that occur in the middle of another pressing scene or are interrupted by a pressing matter. They aren't just the MC dazing off in class or anything. It would be like two characters meeting again and the MC seeing a very short flashback of them as kids introducing themselves for the first time, then jump back into present. To establish they knew each other before and contrast their friendly behavior then with the awkward present.

There is an event that the flashbacks lead up to, but in very small chunks, that correspond with the present actions occurring.
SundownKid wrote:
You have no logline that you can use to market your story. "This guy goes to school and discovers an evil conspiracy". So what? What will draw people to it and make them interested.
Exactly. That's what I am struggling with so much write now. There is an antagonist who is using the system to take advantage of not only MC, but two people that MC cares about very much, which makes him much more personally invested in uncovering more about the conspiracy. He feels like if he can "save" one person he just met, then he's saving someone from his past, but then finds out that the antagonist is setting him up to be in a similar position to those he is trying to save so then it is a matter of saving himself.

I've never thought about including my antagonist into my logline before because of that fear of "giving too much away" which I know is ridiculous, I just don't know how to correctly do so.

SundownKid wrote:
You could perhaps give him a more reactive stance. Maybe he discovers some evil conspiracy early on and then tries to destroy it.
His reactive stance as of now is that he knows someone is being taken advantage of by the system. As he digs deeper into this person's files, he finds out that someone else he lost as a child is pretty much in the same exact situation as this person. He then becomes more motivated to catch the antagonist in the act of doing something wrong (by video recording him doing such a thing) in order to get him legally in trouble which would sever his authority over these people and possibly put himself, the MC, in professional authority over them after he finishes the program. Only he realises that this antagonist is setting him up, too, and his logic is overpowered by his emotions causing him to do some pretty not-so-smart things out of anger.

Anyway, thank you so much for your questions and help. I am definitely needing some good constructive criticism at this point to better understand and develop my story.

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Re: Any suggestions on how to strength this external conflic

#6 Post by Lodratio »

Yunou wrote: The central theme that ties everything together, I think, is that there is no perfect system without inherent flaws--but it all really depends on how you look at an imperfect system that determines whether it is corrupt or "for-the-greater-good".

Discovering this government secret is pretty key to how he understands the world. He trusted it and believed in it, or wanted to, but now he has undeniable proof that it's fucked up at it's core in some ways. Not only that--but the secret itself tore his family apart at an early age and left some pretty huge scars that no one wants to talk about.

He's trying to come to terms with how his family was torn apart and then realises that certain people he thought he could trust know way more about what happened than they originally let on and are playing the system while taking advantage of him. The antagonist isn't the system, but someone who is directly using the system to hurt people including the MC.

I'm sorry if that is long, but your questions are really helpful to getting me to understand the core of my story.
No problem.
It's the other way around for me. Analyzing individual stories helps with reflecting on my own more abstract ideas of what makes stories work.
Trust is a good central theme imo. Might sound a bit basic, but if you have your own ideas of what trust means you'll bring your own perpective into it and make it come alive that way. Higurashi was all about the trust/paranoia dialectic and it's one of the most memorable vns I've ever read.

Your premise reminds me of Steins;Gate in a few ways. You have a protagonist with identity issues, his group of friends and a project that leads them to discover a government conspiracy. Since you'll probably want to have a slow buildup to the big reveal you may run into problems since prior to government conspiracy shenanigans your story will have to be carried by the characters and their everyday troubles for the most part. Steins;Gate got around this by having a charismatic MC, having the project they were working on be an obvious ticking timebomb and teasing the reveal bit by bit to create tension.

Don't agree with SundownKids post for the most part (so many writers have pulled off framented narratives with flashbacks and parallel plot threads sucessfully that the idea that heavy use of flashbacks is a no-go is just not credible to me), but the comment about the setting not being something most people would pick up based on premise is on point. I know it's not relevant to whether you're telling an interesting story or not, but you still need a gimmick to get people to pick it up in the first place.

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Re: Any suggestions on how to strength this external conflic

#7 Post by Yunou »

Lodratio wrote: It's the other way around for me. Analyzing individual stories helps with reflecting on my own more abstract ideas of what makes stories work.
Trust is a good central theme imo. Might sound a bit basic, but if you have your own ideas of what trust means you'll bring your own perpective into it and make it come alive that way. Higurashi was all about the trust/paranoia dialectic and it's one of the most memorable vns I've ever read.

Your premise reminds me of Steins;Gate in a few ways. You have a protagonist with identity issues, his group of friends and a project that leads them to discover a government conspiracy. Since you'll probably want to have a slow buildup to the big reveal you may run into problems since prior to government conspiracy shenanigans your story will have to be carried by the characters and their everyday troubles for the most part. Steins;Gate got around this by having a charismatic MC, having the project they were working on be an obvious ticking timebomb and teasing the reveal bit by bit to create tension.

Don't agree with SundownKids post for the most part (so many writers have pulled off framented narratives with flashbacks and parallel plot threads sucessfully that the idea that heavy use of flashbacks is a no-go is just not credible to me), but the comment about the setting not being something most people would pick up based on premise is on point. I know it's not relevant to whether you're telling an interesting story or not, but you still need a gimmick to get people to pick it up in the first place.
That's very true--I think trust is a pretty big theme in this, the betrayal of trust sets a lot of stuff into motion. I feel like that almost can go hand-in-hand with the acceptance of a person's (or systems) flaws and mistakes and to look at the bigger picture.

On that note, a big thing for me (which probably reflects in this story to a great deal) is that good and bad is never black-and-white and that oftentimes bad things are done by people with good intentions that are not always obvious.

I've been meaning to play Steins;Gate for a while now, but I've really only seen the very beginning of the VN in a YouTube play through. I liked it a lot and wanted to wait to buy it so I could play it myself and not spoil it but I just haven't gotten to do it yet.

My problem is that the conspiracy itself is the biggest climax or plot point. It's absolutely necessary to uncover--but most people aren't exactly shocked by it, and most people wouldn't exactly care because it doesn't affect most people. But uncovering it leads to MC finding out what happened to someone in his past, where that person is now, and how the antagonist had lied to him this whole time about it this whole time and has betrayed his trust completely.

I think this is where I need to spend more time at and where I am stuck at. The "conspiracy" isn't shocking and I don't particularly want it to be shocking, which sounds weird. Actually, I think I just had an epiphany. I think that the reason it is so necessary isn't because anyone had ever tried to expose it--but the person tried to fix it themselves.

I'm not sure how that will translate to the present because I don't think MC wants to expose it or covertly "recode" the system, but he would know that what happened to him as a child happened because someone tried to do this themselves while knowing the risk. I knew that MC is trying to propose to the system, via the project, a way to utilize the current system better to mitigate any undue suffering, but the system sees this as a threat, but that's pretty much where I'm at.

I'm just rambling right now. Thanks for your help again.

I still don't know my gimmick. Besides the whole "MC lives in a society where everything is decided for everyone and he struggles to accept this".

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Re: Any suggestions on how to strengthen this external confl

#8 Post by rito »

That society and the government conspiracy remind me of Psycho-Pass, have you watched it? It's brutal, pretentious at times, and the meat of the plot only starts about 1/3 in, but very worth it IMO. Please don't watch s2 though it's awful

I second the opinion that fragments of the past woven into the story can be used to enrichen the plot, however it does take good execution. Please don't forget the flashbacks, too, should have compelling scenes and characters, perhaps even more so than the main plot since you need something to make up for the fact that their outcome can't be changed. I believe in you!
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Re: Any suggestions on how to strengthen this external confl

#9 Post by Yunou »

rito wrote:That society and the government conspiracy remind me of Psycho-Pass, have you watched it? It's brutal, pretentious at times, and the meat of the plot only starts about 1/3 in, but very worth it IMO. Please don't watch s2 though it's awful

I second the opinion that fragments of the past woven into the story can be used to enrichen the plot, however it does take good execution. Please don't forget the flashbacks, too, should have compelling scenes and characters, perhaps even more so than the main plot since you need something to make up for the fact that their outcome can't be changed. I believe in you!
Thanks! I think my co-creator got the initial inspiration off of Psycho-Pass somewhat, I haven't seen it but I know what it's about and have seen brief parts of it. She had about the same opinion of it as you have described!

What started this story was one night my co-creator said to me, "What if there was a story where you take a test when you come of age to determine who your spouse will be?" Of course, the test would determine where you'd live, what job you could have, if you could have children, etc. on the pretense that the test knows you best and will always match you with the best living conditions to your abilities and desires. That's the setting of our story. Also it's gay. Well, not everyone is, but they don't match spouses based on gender because the population is so heavily controlled that natural childbirth isn't possible really.

Only the test does not always know best. Or maybe it does. That's what MC is trying to figure out. I think Pyscho-Pass focussed on preventing future crimes by testing tendencies to commit it? It's kind of similar to that only crimes aren't an issue in this society, but it is a heavily caste-based society.

The flashbacks are very specific, though, and short. They aren't for frills and since no one really wants to discuss what happened so long ago, it serves to show how MC was involved with the other characters (or the characters involved with one another) and how it all effects their dynamic in the present. It also shows how much they've changed, and how the one key event that the flashbacks lead up to has affected them all uniquely.

Anyway, thanks for your response! I feel like I'm somewhat getting somewhere with tackling this issue.

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Re: Any suggestions on how to strengthen this external confl

#10 Post by Parataxis »

I mean, perhaps it's just me, but it sounds like you need two external goals: one to drive the character in the beginning and one to drive the character deeper into the conspiracy. Now, obviously for optimal story telling these two things should be related, but they needn't be. In fact, the internal struggle between these two external motivations could be an excellent central tent pole for the narrative. Consider Kingdom Hearts Chain of Memories where Sora enters Castle Oblivion to find his friends, but as he progresses he discovers that a friend he had forgotten from his very early childhood is captured in the heart of the castle. The tension between his ongoing quest to find his friends
whom he has begun to forget
and traveling deeper into the castle to save Namine from the mysterious Organization XIII
Who as we learn is a false memory implanted in him
makes up the better part of the game's myth arc.

By Balancing these two external desires of the main character, we get an interesting and emotional story full of internal tension.

So for instance, perhaps your character's initial external goal is to finish the program as quickly and outstandingly as possible out of some perhaps misguided idea that if he earns a high enough score he might be allowed choice in his spouse? This gives him an initial goal to complete the program and even to throw himself into the project: if he finishes fast enough perhaps he can go back to his boyfriend. But then, as he discovers the secret truths about what's going on he finds out more about himself and even when his success at the program is put in jeopardy (And this his chance to return to his boyfriend) he is still compelled to go forward out of his need for self knowledge.

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Re: Any suggestions on how to strengthen this external confl

#11 Post by Yunou »

Parataxis wrote:I
So for instance, perhaps your character's initial external goal is to finish the program as quickly and outstandingly as possible out of some perhaps misguided idea that if he earns a high enough score he might be allowed choice in his spouse? This gives him an initial goal to complete the program and even to throw himself into the project: if he finishes fast enough perhaps he can go back to his boyfriend. But then, as he discovers the secret truths about what's going on he finds out more about himself and even when his success at the program is put in jeopardy (And this his chance to return to his boyfriend) he is still compelled to go forward out of his need for self knowledge.
Thanks for your help!

So, the thing is, a few days after taking the test before the program begins, there is an assembly in which results are revealed including each citizens spouse. And by his ex-boyfriend not taking the test, he's placed himself in non-citizen status and is no longer allowed to live in the same district as MC. Although it is possible to move up (or down) a caste when taking the test, a lot of it is based on what prior schooling was received (pre-med students typically are place in high-paying medical tracks), though sometimes students who were accepted initially into pre-med might not have the aptitudes to succeed in that field and could be placed down into the industrial or service industry.

His ex-boyfriend is essentially begging him to run away with him and leave the city, but MC has studied so hard to get into this program (not that he even cares about it once he is there). He doesn't want to leave his family, though, because once he leaves the city... it's pretty hard to get back in. Also, there is no internet system, it's all an intranet that is highly controlled and censored by the government making communication outside the city impossible. If MC's ex-boyfriend leaves the city, he's pretty much never going to see him again.

Everyone in the program finishes at the same time and it is divided into three terms. Citizens only really graduate by submitting a proposal (the group project) that "helps the city in some way".

Right now, the VN is divided into two main plots: 1) the group project which leads to uncovering some serious information about how his family was torn apart and at the same time reveals that someone MC trusted has betrayed him with undeniable evidence that he is using the system to hurt two people he cares about, and is trying to hurt him and leads MC to trying to catch him in the act and save himself and the other two people, and

2) the interpersonal conflict between MC, his new spouse, and his ex-boyfriend that is due to a major event that happened in the past--this plot is dependent on the path in the VN and each character reveals a little bit about their side of the story of what happened. The key event that happened in the past here was loosely related to the key event that happened in the past in plot point 1.

I don't know if that makes any sense. Anyway, thanks for your help, I'm trying to pin down where these goals lie or adjust the plot accordingly. I'm definitely flexible with things, it's just that there are so many key events dependent on specific things happening at a certain time that I'm trying to see if I can find a place to focus on.
Parataxis wrote: I mean, perhaps it's just me, but it sounds like you need two external goals: one to drive the character in the beginning and one to drive the character deeper into the conspiracy.
I definitely agree with this. I'm just trying to figure out what these goals are.


Thanks for your help!

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Re: Any suggestions on how to strengthen this external confl

#12 Post by indoneko »

What does the MC want, actually? What does he consider important in his life? Maybe that would affect how we should set the external conflict for him.

I take Stein's Gate for example. The protagonist wants to keep his childhood friend smiling. He does it by acting like a mad scientist and making silly experiments to humor her. Then suddenly their fate was screwed up after an experiment, and the protagonist must do anything to return everything back to normal (and that includes sacrificing something important to him).

Both in Stein's Gate and your story, the protagonist accidentally discovered a secret conspiracy and tried to do something about the it. But in steins gate, the story was never about destroying an evil organization or trying to change the world into a better place... because this selfish protagonist simply doesn't really care about the world.
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Re: Any suggestions on how to strengthen this external confl

#13 Post by Yunou »

indoneko wrote:What does the MC want, actually? What does he consider important in his life? Maybe that would affect how we should set the external conflict for him.

I take Stein's Gate for example. The protagonist wants to keep his childhood friend smiling. He does it by acting like a mad scientist and making silly experiments to humor her. Then suddenly their fate was screwed up after an experiment, and the protagonist must do anything to return everything back to normal (and that includes sacrificing something important to him).

Both in Stein's Gate and your story, the protagonist accidentally discovered a secret conspiracy and tried to do something about the it. But in steins gate, the story was never about destroying an evil organization or trying to change the world into a better place... because this selfish protagonist simply doesn't really care about the world.
Thanks for this suggestion!

Let me try things MC wants: MC wants his ex-boyfriend to stay in the city and isn't ready to give this relationship up. This persists throughout the whole VN--his ex-boyfriend has been part of his life (and living with his family) since they were children. They both experienced the same family traumatic experience as children, but it affected them in very different ways, so his ex-boyfriend is constantly wanting to push the MC to confront it so they both can heal, but the MC doesn't want to think about it.

MC knows he is being selfish by not trying to get close to his match, but he doesn't want to lose the little family he has.

Further explanation:

As the VN progresses, a huge plot point is the non-citizen class. MC's ex-boyfriend is now part of this non-citizen class because he chose to not take the citizenship test so he's now limited to the lowest jobs and the lowest housing districts, he also isn't permitted a spouse. Non-citizens make up a very small portion of society and are usually looked down on because they are typically assigned their status due to mental illnesses, ineptitudes, inability to conform, or laziness (no one chooses to just not take it).

Most people are either very rude to non-citizens or don't acknowledge them much. MC was in the latter boat, he never looked down much on them, but he didn't think much about them at all. Now that his ex-boyfriend is of this class, he ends up getting close with other non-citizens and learns that the utopian system is not only unfair, but the system can be manipulated for even worse purposes.

--

Thanks, this question helped a lot. Having this written out like this helps so much to get me in a single direction. This story is so carefully plotted out and constructed that I pretty much know what key events are happening almost every day for nine months down to my MC's class schedule (not that everything will be included, since a lot of the stuff MC might never know about), but I just need to organize everything more tightly and give it a more solid direction.

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Parataxis
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Re: Any suggestions on how to strengthen this external confl

#14 Post by Parataxis »

Yunou wrote:So, the thing is, a few days after taking the test before the program begins, there is an assembly in which results are revealed including each citizens spouse. And by his ex-boyfriend not taking the test, he's placed himself in non-citizen status and is no longer allowed to live in the same district as MC. Although it is possible to move up (or down) a caste when taking the test, a lot of it is based on what prior schooling was received (pre-med students typically are place in high-paying medical tracks), though sometimes students who were accepted initially into pre-med might not have the aptitudes to succeed in that field and could be placed down into the industrial or service industry.

His ex-boyfriend is essentially begging him to run away with him and leave the city, but MC has studied so hard to get into this program (not that he even cares about it once he is there). He doesn't want to leave his family, though, because once he leaves the city... it's pretty hard to get back in. Also, there is no internet system, it's all an intranet that is highly controlled and censored by the government making communication outside the city impossible. If MC's ex-boyfriend leaves the city, he's pretty much never going to see him again.
Here is my sticking point. You are saying here that your character cares so much about a prestigious future that he gave up his romantic partner forever to stay on track... and then in the same breath say that he doesn't care about the program he's in. This is not consistent, you have to decide: Does that character care about succeeding in his program or not? If he does, there you go: He wants a good and prestigious life at first, and then he is torn between his desire to know the truth about himself and his desire to succeed in the society bent on keeping those facts secret.

If he wants to achieve happiness through success, then the threat that he won't ever be satisfied with his life if he turns away from the truth becomes real. But the fact that knowing the truth might ruin his aspirations at his picture-perfect future is also a very real possibility. External motivations achieved.

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Re: Any suggestions on how to strengthen this external confl

#15 Post by Yunou »

Parataxis wrote:
Yunou wrote: His ex-boyfriend is essentially begging him to run away with him and leave the city, but MC has studied so hard to get into this program (not that he even cares about it once he is there).
Here is my sticking point. You are saying here that your character cares so much about a prestigious future that he gave up his romantic partner forever to stay on track... and then in the same breath say that he doesn't care about the program he's in. This is not consistent, you have to decide: Does that character care about succeeding in his program or not? If he does, there you go: He wants a good and prestigious life at first, and then he is torn between his desire to know the truth about himself and his desire to succeed in the society bent on keeping those facts secret.

If he wants to achieve happiness through success, then the threat that he won't ever be satisfied with his life if he turns away from the truth becomes real. But the fact that knowing the truth might ruin his aspirations at his picture-perfect future is also a very real possibility. External motivations achieved.
This makes a lot of sense and I think you nailed it. So MC's feelings about the matter are complicated, which is why I worded it that way. He studied really hard to get into these elite programs growing up because that's what was expected of him and he took the test because, well, that's just what you do. The fact that MC's boyfriend decided not to take the test is pretty much unheard of because getting a low tier job is better that being a non-citizen.

But once he gets to the testing center, he realises that he just doesn't care about the program or track he's placed in and worked so hard for. But unlike his ex-boyfriend, he can't imagine giving everything up to either live at the bottom of society or move to another city where you don't know they next time you'll eat. Even the non-citizens of his society never go hungry and have a place to live.

MC has always tried to ignore any part of society that seemed uncomfortable, but now he's coming face-to-face with it and doesn't know how to react. Eventually he will realise that, to get cliche, he can be the change he wants to see in the world and so that motivates him to stay. He realises the professional track he is in will help him to protect those who are afforded little protection.

But these all seem like internal motivations to me, so I feel a bit stuck still.

Thanks again for your help, I super appreciate it.

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