Is controversial alright?

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leviathanimation
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Is controversial alright?

#1 Post by leviathanimation »

I made a visual novel with some controversial topics such as terrorism and rape, (not explicit, but in a way to shock the reader like in the movie A time to Kill). Some of my real life entourage didn't appreciate it. I know a writer should have the freedom to write whatever he/she wants. So my question is, does a story with such topic repulse you, like make you uninterested? There are things I feel like have never been written before and should, but then and again if no one likes it, I'm stuck with the option of making light stories or free fan-service :P
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Re: Is controversial alright?

#2 Post by Emdykay »

In my personal opinion it is a lot more about what you do with controversial issues, rather than doing them at all.
Well, I have not seen your example movie nor have I read your VN so I can not properly judge your use of such themes, but my general opinion on things:
Sure, plain shock value is a decent and completely legitimite device, but if you derive it from sensitive issues such as rape it becomes dangerous. For example: In loads of fiction rape is like the most convenient crime to designate someone as evil. It pretty much can not be justified in any way what so ever (you can kill to protect someone for example), while being pretty high on the magnitude of inflicting suffering on the victim. So say hello to unambigously evil villain, while massively shocking your audience to just how bad the bad guy is, yay! Except you just made a mere plot device out of the victim, entirely ignoring its peril, which is pretty dehumanizing and flat out insulting to every real life victim, while using the cheapest and flattest way to tell your audience the villian is just that.
I obviously do not approve of controversial or sensitive topics being used that way, if you do it, you have to adress why it is so sensitive or at least put in extra care to avoid those pitfalls.
That being said I strongly believe that art should not have any restraints regarding taste or morality. So if you actually do want to create a work about such a theme well go ahead and break every bone you can, if you feel you have to in order to get your point across.

On the more practical side: If you put controversial stuff in your works they are gonna be controversial ( Didn´t figure that one out did ya?). There will always be people who will dislike it because of that and there is a reason the majority of commercial productions, regardless of medium, usually avoid anything that could be interpreted as such. So if your goal is to reach as many people as possible, then do not put such things in your works. If you feel you have to, because you want to say something about it or you figure your work will be better because of it from an artistic standpoint, well go ahead, but expect and accept the backlash.

That being said I enjoy such things a lot, if used properly, because there are a lot of topics that need a lot more adressing, which ist not done out of fear of said backlash and thus I am really interested in more opinions on the matter, as the feedback is also relevant to my own work.

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Re: Is controversial alright?

#3 Post by leviathanimation »

Emdykay wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:22 am In my personal opinion it is a lot more about what you do with controversial issues, rather than doing them at all.
Well, I have not seen your example movie nor have I read your VN so I can not properly judge your use of such themes, but my general opinion on things:
Sure, plain shock value is a decent and completely legitimite device, but if you derive it from sensitive issues such as rape it becomes dangerous. For example: In loads of fiction rape is like the most convenient crime to designate someone as evil. It pretty much can not be justified in any way what so ever (you can kill to protect someone for example), while being pretty high on the magnitude of inflicting suffering on the victim. So say hello to unambigously evil villain, while massively shocking your audience to just how bad the bad guy is, yay! Except you just made a mere plot device out of the victim, entirely ignoring its peril, which is pretty dehumanizing and flat out insulting to every real life victim, while using the cheapest and flattest way to tell your audience the villian is just that.
I obviously do not approve of controversial or sensitive topics being used that way, if you do it, you have to adress why it is so sensitive or at least put in extra care to avoid those pitfalls.
That being said I strongly believe that art should not have any restraints regarding taste or morality. So if you actually do want to create a work about such a theme well go ahead and break every bone you can, if you feel you have to in order to get your point across.

On the more practical side: If you put controversial stuff in your works they are gonna be controversial ( Didn´t figure that one out did ya?). There will always be people who will dislike it because of that and there is a reason the majority of commercial productions, regardless of medium, usually avoid anything that could be interpreted as such. So if your goal is to reach as many people as possible, then do not put such things in your works. If you feel you have to, because you want to say something about it or you figure your work will be better because of it from an artistic standpoint, well go ahead, but expect and accept the backlash.

That being said I enjoy such things a lot, if used properly, because there are a lot of topics that need a lot more adressing, which ist not done out of fear of said backlash and thus I am really interested in more opinions on the matter, as the feedback is also relevant to my own work.
I understand your point of using controversial topics just for the sake of plot or to point out that this guy is indeed a villain, that it isn't right and should be more sensitive, which I agree. I'll explain what I was asking using a brief description of the movie I mentionned. Basically the story turns around questioning the morality of death penalty concerning 2 rapists. Just like in my VN, the focus is set on the right or wrong of the punishment such people deserve. If I had to describe to you my story in very short terms, it's about 2 countries that disagree on capital punishment and after much rise in tension, they go to war. I don't think I used the rape topic just for the sake of crime convenience (well I don't think I did). I needed to talk about this because people definitely get devided on the punishment of such crime, and the punishment is what I tried to focus on. Do you think it is alright in my case?
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Re: Is controversial alright?

#4 Post by Mammon »

I agree with Emdykay, if you use the controversial simply for shock value or as a simple ploy, of course people won't like it. But then again, using it like that is just an overused trope used in an uninspired way + a factor of disgust. If you can use it well, it should be good. Assuming you can find a way to make it work well. But that all comes down whether it fits in the story and whether it serves a purpose.

With what you're describing, that's a lot different from having a character (that we're supposed to see as a villain or companion) that raped someone: they're someone labelled as a rapist. As far as I can tell, that the guy will just be rapist#2 might actually support the case you're making by making the capital punishment side see him as nothing but his crime. I think that can work quite well, if done well.
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Re: Is controversial alright?

#5 Post by SundownKid »

Terrorism is a pretty common plot device in stories. I don't think I'd bat an eye seeing it in a fictional work.

Rape on the other hand is a potential land mine. It's usually used as a way for authors to make their works "dark" and "edgy" when they don't know how to do it via regular character development, but it ends up being an example of Stuffed into the Fridge. In my opinion novice writers should stay well away from it unless you know what you're doing.

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Re: Is controversial alright?

#6 Post by TheJerminator15 »

Controversial subjects are fine, it's mainly the execution of how you do it. If you're doing it purely because you feel you can and for shock value 99% of the time it'll fall flat when it comes to execution. People tend to not like having topics like rape brought into the story if it's mainly to shock the reader.

If it's executed properly and correctly woven into the story, people tend to be fine as long as there are content warnings ahead of time.

In regards to your story, terrorism really isn't a controversial subject. It's used so much in stories that even with the context of a current climate people are mainly desensitized to it in terms of story. Rape, on the other hand, is a bomb waiting to happen if it isn't handled properly. As SundownKid said, it's usually used simply to add dark tones to a story but typically ends up having the opposite effect because it's such an overused trope to try and force a story into being dark for the sake of dark. Even Berserk, typically considered a masterpiece, in my opinion overused rape so it just got ridiculous whenever a scene with it in just made me roll my eyes.
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Re: Is controversial alright?

#7 Post by leviathanimation »

SundownKid wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:12 am Terrorism is a pretty common plot device in stories. I don't think I'd bat an eye seeing it in a fictional work.

Rape on the other hand is a potential land mine. It's usually used as a way for authors to make their works "dark" and "edgy" when they don't know how to do it via regular character development, but it ends up being an example of Stuffed into the Fridge. In my opinion novice writers should stay well away from it unless you know what you're doing.
I get what you're saying, that novice writers shouldn't touch on these very sensitive subject. In my case, the focus isn't directly on the act (at least that was my intent), but rather on what's after it, the debate of capital punishment. What are your thoughts?
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Re: Is controversial alright?

#8 Post by Kinjo »

Controversial is a double-edged sword. You can write anything you want that's controversial, but you just have to understand that not everybody is going to want to read about it. If you fill your story with controversial topics, it might upset certain people. If you're okay with that, then go right ahead. If not, then rethink it.

Specifically regarding the topic of rape, Law and Order: Special Victims Unit comes to my mind as a good example of how to handle it. I don't think it's making light of the victim at all, rather it's motivating the detectives and the viewer to find the culprit and achieve justice for the victim. Not only that, but usually justice is always achieved, ultimately giving somewhat of a cathartic ending to the show. This is assuming your story is a crime drama, or that once the rape occurs the main characters will attempt to serve justice.

There is also a major difference between simply bringing up the topic of rape versus actually depicting it in the story. People are probably more likely to drop a story if there's a poorly written rape scene than just a brief mention that it happened.

Based on what you've said about your story, you're probably just mentioning the topic and you're certainly intending to punish the criminal (whether it's the death penalty or not is what the two countries are fighting over). So it's probably fine, and actually sounds like a good conflict to start your story.

And as others have mentioned, the topic of terrorism has been handled numerous times in other games.

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