Need Advice on Developing this Character I'm Making

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Killionaire
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Need Advice on Developing this Character I'm Making

#1 Post by Killionaire »

Hello everyone, I was hoping more experienced writers could give me what advice they can on writing this character I want to write and develop for a story. The character herself is a demon of sorts that is attending a sort of educational grounds meant to facilitate and grow the survival skills of these demons. All of the characters attending are at least somewhat evil. I want to model her and 4 others after one of the 7 deadly sins. The story allows for human beings to become one of these types of demons and I was wanting to make this character's backstory one about a man who chooses to become one of these powerful evil beings.The magic these demons posses cause its wielder to transform into what they imagine is their "ideal form". As such, this character seamlessly transformed into a woman, which to her was the happiest of accidents, as such was something she wanted prior to this. I want to get some advice writing this because I understand how hard it can be to write a character like that without making it look like I think something like trans people are evil; being LGBT myself, I definitely do not. All demons for the purposes of this story, and by extension this character are however. That out of the way, which of the sins do you all think this character should represent? I personally think Lust is a horrible idea for this character and Wrath is taken.
Any and all advice would be graciously appreciated.

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Re: Need Advice on Developing this Character I'm Making

#2 Post by anonymouse »

None of the sins jump out as being particularly fitting for a sex change. My advice is make the sex change incidental to the sin; make the sex change about the character's preexisting personality. Don't use sexist tropes. For example, if you went with greed, don't make her a gold-digger. Something like loan sharking would be more interesting.

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Re: Need Advice on Developing this Character I'm Making

#3 Post by Killionaire »

anonymouse wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:21 pm None of the sins jump out as being particularly fitting for a sex change. My advice is make the sex change incidental to the sin; make the sex change about the character's preexisting personality. Don't use sexist tropes. For example, if you went with greed, don't make her a gold-digger. Something like loan sharking would be more interesting.
Sorry for not clarifying this earlier. The sin would not be related to the sex change; the sex change is incidental. it happens because of who she really saw herself as. The point of asking which sin is to try and avoid something that may be too offensive, which is why I don't think Lust would be a good idea.

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Re: Need Advice on Developing this Character I'm Making

#4 Post by Widdershins »

What an interesting concept! I definitely read your concern, though. In addition to extra care around the character's change as a whole, it's worth noting the shift to female, specifically, can carry loaded connotations as well. I've some (hopefully helpful!) ideas, but I'll add the caveat that I'm neither directly impacted, nor the best informed on the potential pitfalls. There are some excellent resources out there on writing with sensitivity and avoiding stereotypes, though (such as http://writingtheother.com/writing-char ... t-genders/ ).

For my own thoughts:

First, as a general rule, the more you humanize and give nuance to your demon, the better she will read as a character instead of a potential statement. Likewise, the more you make the change clearly incidental to her morality, the better: you want to avoid conflating the character's physical transformation (representing her ideal, true self) with the character's inherent shift towards "evil" and giving up her humanity. Thus, in picking her theme, I'd steer well clear of anything falling remotely in line with established, bigoted stereotypes. You mention Lust, for good reason; I'd add Envy, too, as it is often ascribed as a feminized flaw. To a lesser degree, I also feel there's an argument to be made against having an LGBT+ character become the evil personification of Pride, though that's maybe a little more nebulous.

Which leaves Gluttony, Greed, and Sloth. What choice suits her overall personality best? And beyond that, what tone are you going for-- is this meant to be a comedy? A drama?

Because the rest ties in to more general character development. With antihero protagonists, it's still important to find positive points of entry for a reader, otherwise you risk alienating your audience completely. That can be managed with humor, but a stronger tie is to make the character on some level relatable: for example, someone who hates going to work and would rather game all day (sloth), or who has an insatiable appetite for sweets (gluttony), or who hates sharing anything they have, for fear of being taken advantage of (greed). They're all already existent tropes, because on a level, many people connect with those feelings. The less you "other" your evil protagonist, the more you can make her someone the reader identifies with (albeit taken to an evil extreme), the less likely you are to inadvertently suggest her change and gender identity are rooted in evil, and instead keep the focus narratively where it ought to be.

Lastly, if you still can't choose a Sin, or have a difficult time building your protagonist beyond the trait expressed, a quick lookup indicates the Deadly Sins have theological counterpart virtues: Chastity (Lust), Temperance (Gluttony), Charity (Greed), Diligence (Sloth), Patience (Wrath), Kindness (Envy), and Humility (Pride). For a well-rounded hero, success often hinges on overcoming personal flaws. Does your antihero follow the reverse course, with her inner struggle being to quash the virtue that would weaken her strength? Human nature is prone to contradictions in logic and hypocrisies, which can add depth and interest (and often humor) to an otherwise stiff character. If it's tricky deciding on a single, overriding sin in her character, perhaps ask instead what trace virtue might she be fighting to obliterate?

I hope some part of this proves useful-- and best of luck on your project!
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Re: Need Advice on Developing this Character I'm Making

#5 Post by anonymouse »

Killionaire wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:17 am The point of asking which sin is to try and avoid something that may be too offensive, which is why I don't think Lust would be a good idea.
Honestly, I think any sin could work, even Lust. You just need to avoid writing her as a negative stereotype, which is what I think would invite criticism. Here's an idea: the Ethical Slut.

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Re: Need Advice on Developing this Character I'm Making

#6 Post by Killionaire »

Widdershins wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:07 pm What an interesting concept! I definitely read your concern, though. In addition to extra care around the character's change as a whole, it's worth noting the shift to female, specifically, can carry loaded connotations as well. I've some (hopefully helpful!) ideas, but I'll add the caveat that I'm neither directly impacted, nor the best informed on the potential pitfalls. There are some excellent resources out there on writing with sensitivity and avoiding stereotypes, though (such as http://writingtheother.com/writing-char ... t-genders/ ).

For my own thoughts:

First, as a general rule, the more you humanize and give nuance to your demon, the better she will read as a character instead of a potential statement. Likewise, the more you make the change clearly incidental to her morality, the better: you want to avoid conflating the character's physical transformation (representing her ideal, true self) with the character's inherent shift towards "evil" and giving up her humanity. Thus, in picking her theme, I'd steer well clear of anything falling remotely in line with established, bigoted stereotypes. You mention Lust, for good reason; I'd add Envy, too, as it is often ascribed as a feminized flaw. To a lesser degree, I also feel there's an argument to be made against having an LGBT+ character become the evil personification of Pride, though that's maybe a little more nebulous.

Which leaves Gluttony, Greed, and Sloth. What choice suits her overall personality best? And beyond that, what tone are you going for-- is this meant to be a comedy? A drama?

Because the rest ties in to more general character development. With antihero protagonists, it's still important to find positive points of entry for a reader, otherwise you risk alienating your audience completely. That can be managed with humor, but a stronger tie is to make the character on some level relatable: for example, someone who hates going to work and would rather game all day (sloth), or who has an insatiable appetite for sweets (gluttony), or who hates sharing anything they have, for fear of being taken advantage of (greed). They're all already existent tropes, because on a level, many people connect with those feelings. The less you "other" your evil protagonist, the more you can make her someone the reader identifies with (albeit taken to an evil extreme), the less likely you are to inadvertently suggest her change and gender identity are rooted in evil, and instead keep the focus narratively where it ought to be.

Lastly, if you still can't choose a Sin, or have a difficult time building your protagonist beyond the trait expressed, a quick lookup indicates the Deadly Sins have theological counterpart virtues: Chastity (Lust), Temperance (Gluttony), Charity (Greed), Diligence (Sloth), Patience (Wrath), Kindness (Envy), and Humility (Pride). For a well-rounded hero, success often hinges on overcoming personal flaws. Does your antihero follow the reverse course, with her inner struggle being to quash the virtue that would weaken her strength? Human nature is prone to contradictions in logic and hypocrisies, which can add depth and interest (and often humor) to an otherwise stiff character. If it's tricky deciding on a single, overriding sin in her character, perhaps ask instead what trace virtue might she be fighting to obliterate?

I hope some part of this proves useful-- and best of luck on your project!
anonymouse wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:27 pm
Killionaire wrote: Tue Jan 08, 2019 12:17 am The point of asking which sin is to try and avoid something that may be too offensive, which is why I don't think Lust would be a good idea.
Honestly, I think any sin could work, even Lust. You just need to avoid writing her as a negative stereotype, which is what I think would invite criticism. Here's an idea: the Ethical Slut.
Wow, this was incredibly helpful and sincere. You un-jammed my writers block I was having. I greatly appreciate both of these.

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Re: Need Advice on Developing this Character I'm Making

#7 Post by Katy133 »

To kick-start your brainstorming, I'll use an example of how the Seven Deadly Sins are portrayed in the 1967 film, Bedazzled (a great comedy film starring Peter Cook and Dudley Moore).
  • Pride - A man who is so vain, he's attached a large mirror to his torso so that he can constantly look at himself as he walks. This causes him to crash into things. Named Vanity in the film.
  • Envy - A man who constantly complains (he doesn't like that the main character is getting more attention from his boss than he is, he's upset when he gets a smaller table at a party than other people, etc).
  • Wrath - An angry doorman/bouncer who throws guests in and out of the building when they try to enter/exit the place. Named Anger.
  • Sloth - A man in charge of paperwork who is always seen sleeping at his desk.
  • Greed - A young woman who constantly asks for money to buy or pay for things (she asks for money to go on a ride and a fairground, etc). Named Avarice.
  • Gluttony - A stout woman who is always shown eating something (ice cream, etc).
  • Lust - A young woman played by Raquel Welsh who (while scantily clad) gives the main character breakfast in bed (much to the main character's surprise, because he had just woken up and did not expect her).
To compare, here is how the Seven Deadly Sins are represented in Fullmetal Alchemist (spoilers for both the manga and the anime adaptations).
  • Pride - A young boy who is the son of a military leader. Alternatively, he is portrayed as a military leader who wields a sword. He is calm and coldly level-headed, and pretends to be friendly to put people at ease.
  • Envy - An androgynous person who can shape-shift into any person or creature. They are violent and enjoy hurting and taunting their enemies. Their true form is revealed to be a tiny chameleon-like creature. Alternatively, their true form is revealed to be the half-brother of the main character.
  • Wrath - A military leader who wields a sword. Calm and cold. Alternatively, he is portrayed as a young boy who feels like he was abandoned by his parents. Is child-like and can throw tantrums.
  • Sloth - A giant, muscular man who doesn't like doing anything involving effort (even talking), but is secretly the fastest and strongest of the group. Alternatively, he is portrayed as a woman who resembles the main character's mother and can shape-shift into different forms, including other people and water.
  • Greed - A man who likes to flaunt his wealth with his clothes. He hangs around a nightclub and surrounds himself with his henchmen and nightclub women to sit next to him. He wants money and power for himself. Out of all the members in the group of seven, he is the most benevolent, and even decides to betray the others help the main character. He eventually compares "greed" with "hope," saying that all humans want things and some of those things are good.
  • Gluttony - A round man who eats humans. He is considered to be the most simple-minded of the group.
  • Lust - A woman who seduces people to gather information. She uses her retractable, long nails to attack people.
And here is how the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are represented in the novel Good Omens (a really amazing book that I highly recommend--it's getting a series adaptation starring David Tennant and Michael Sheen in 2019).
  • War - A red-headed woman who wields a sword. She has a fearful presence to people. She formerly was an arms dealer and then became a war correspondent, going to places just before a war broke out. Her overall aura causes people around her to start arguments that turn into fights. She enjoys the fact that people will fight over her.
  • Famine - A man in a black suit and goatee who runs a fast food corporation. He wrote a book on dieting that causes people to die of starvation, and has developed a menu of fast food that fills people up but has no nutrition (causing people who eat it for too long to die). He will order food just to throw it away. If you told him there were people staring in other places, he'd say that he was happy you'd noticed.
  • Pestilence - Pestilence retired after the invention of penicillin, so they were replaced by Pollution. Pollution is a young man with pale skin and white hair. When he enters buildings, litter will blow in. When he is outside, rivers will grow polluted. He was recently fired from his job working on a ship that "accidentally" dumped waste into the ocean. To humans, he is seen as a person who seems to fade into the background. He looks at a park filled with garbage and describes it as "Damn beautiful."
  • Death - A skeleton wearing a black leather biker's outfit with a motorcycle helmet that has such a reflective visor, it hides his face and reflects the image of whoever is talking to him. Is friendly and has a sense of humor. Is considered the black sheep of the group.
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