How to not self-insert

[sonorousgem]

I don't consider myself a great writer in the slightest or even a good one, but it's starting to dawn on me that the "original" stuff I try to conquer in first person ends up sounding a lot like me or has alarming similarities. It's quite uncomfortable lol.
How do you end up writing characters that you want to be different than you? Do you try basing them off a friend or other character? If so, how do you get into that person's mind?
I'm just curious to see how real writers approach this.

[parttimestorier]

I don't think it's necessarily wrong to write characters and stories with similarities to yourself and your own life. If you're writing about things you're already really familiar with, you can probably do an especially good job of making them realistic and relatable to people who've been in similar situations. I think it's only really a problem for a character to be a writer's "self-insert" in stories where you can tell the writer had a really high opinion of themselves and/or is trying to live out a fantasy of theirs through the story, making their character the absolute coolest person ever that all the other characters want to date or something like that. But if you're just trying to write a realistic, flawed character and drawing from your own personal experience to do that, it can turn out really well.

But of course, you still don't want all the characters to be like you. Personally, I'm aware that I can sometimes default to writing characters who are a bit shy and who try to be nice and polite all the time, because that's what I'm usually like. So if I realize too many of my characters are turning out that way, I try to introduce some contrast by bringing in characters who are really different - characters who are really confident, or characters who can be rude and abrasive. I sometimes draw some general ideas from other people I know or characters I like in other media too, and thinking about what they would do in a specific situation. You can also try to develop your characters alongside the rest of the story - for instance, if you have an outline already and you know a certain event needs to happen to move along the plot, then think about what kind of person would be the type to do the thing that someone needs to do for the story to work.

Finally, I don't do this as much myself, but I know some writers like to draw a lot from different psychologists' categorizations of personality types, like Myers-Briggs types or enneagram types. For instance, the visual novel Root Double has one character for each enneagram type, which works well because it makes them all different and puts some of them in conflict with each other. Not everyone neatly fits into one of those in real life of course, but it can be a good start for thinking about what different kinds of people with different thinking patterns are out there.

[Mutive]

I use my imagination. Heavily.

Sometimes characters are based off of someone I know or a fictional person. Most often, they're created to serve the plot. (e.g. "I need someone to get the main character to do A, B and C and someone with these views will add the most interesting perspective")

IMO, the best way to get in their head is to a) read a lot (reading is great for getting into different people's heads), b) read diverse fiction (because that way you're seeing points of view from a wide range of people - older books are great for this, too. Note that what is considered "normal" changes dramatically between different times and places.) and c) heavily use my imagination to build on other people's perspectives.

Let's say, for instance, that I'm trying to to write from the perspective of a lady in 15th century Spain (well, probably Castile as technically there *was* no Spain in the 15th century...) I'd try to read both primary and secondary sources to get a sense as to what life was like for her and then tweak it to the character that I wanted to create.

If I wanted a strong willed, independent woman, I might have her loving the stories of Jean d'Arc. She might imagine herself to be a holy warrior like the great hero. She might also love riding horses (assuming she was wealthy enough to have them) and fear the Moors invading her town and taking her into a harem (where she'd both be "ruined" and wouldn't be free to ride off and have pretend adventures any more). She might dream of convent life, but also realize it was kind of boring after studying at one. She might hope to never marry, but not have found a good way to manage that without becoming a nun, etc. I'd consider how these wants and desires would impact both what she's thinking and what she says.

[Notomys]

So in my opinion, there are two related, but slightly different challenges when it comes to creating distinctive characters.

The first is coming up with a unique and diverse range of characters with different personalities, values and ways of looking at the world. I think the posters above me have some really good tips for approaching this. My characters usually start with a vague idea of their personality, and a general concept of what role they will play in my story. This helps me avoid a situation where I either 1) have a bunch of cool characters and a plot made out of paper-mâché or 2) a character who doesn't fit the role they need to play in the story. As others have said, it's not necessarily a bad thing to have characters that are inspired by yourself and your experiences, the problems really just come into play when the characters are unlikable or don't mesh well with the story that you are trying to tell.

The second challenge is actually depicting the character via their voice, that is - the words that they use, how they phrase things when they are speaking, and their thought process if you're using a POV which gives the reader insight to, etc. One piece of advice that really helped me as a writer is to not worry too much about nailing down a character's voice in your first draft. As a writer, there are a lot of different things that you need to establish and I personally find it a little bit overwhelming to try to get everything perfect at the same time. I generally like to establish setting and plot in my first draft, and not worry so much about characterization until my second draft. Some characters come easily to me, and I'm able to capture their 'voice' during my first draft, but if I'm having trouble with a particular character, I won't worry so much about it. While some scenes in my first drafts read a little bit like I'm controlling two sock puppets instead of a conversation between two living people, I find it much easier to go back and fix this after I have already established the overall structure and flow of a scene.

An interesting aside, visual novels are different from traditional novels in the sense that it is not uncommon for a VN to expect the reader to imagine themselves as the main character and thus for the MC to basically be a vehicle for the player to experience a fantasy. Some games go so far as to portray the main character as being faceless/eyeless in the CGs, so that the player can imagine themselves instead. Like any stylistic choice, there are pros and cons to telling a story this way (... and personally, I'm not a huge fan of eyeless MCs in CGs). This is a little bit off-topic from the original question, but something to keep in mind in the context of a VN. It's always good to think about what the purpose behind your characters are, and make sure that they have a personality to match that purpose.

[sonorousgem]

Thanks for the perspectives!

I don't think it's necessarily wrong to write characters and stories with similarities to yourself and your own life... I think it's only really a problem for a character to be a writer's "self-insert" in stories where you can tell the writer had a really high opinion of themselves and/or is trying to live out a fantasy of theirs through the story...

This is a good point. I've always had trouble figuring out what I want a story to convey, and when I don't think about it, it can become what some people call "self-indulgent." Gross as it sounds, it's not necessarily bad, but not what I want to go for these days, so I guess that's why I've felt this way when I asked this. Instead, it's exciting to think about how you could use your own characteristics to inspire others with stories that you don't write just for yourself.
I actually think those psych personality types things are interesting, and could certainly try to work off that. It's just that each "type" has such different ways of thinking, to put it simply, so it wouldn't be easy. (I'm now wondering if I'm just wanting the process to be convenient X'D)

Most often, they're created to serve the plot.

This is awesome. I've always been more interested in the characters than the plot, so the plot suffers. Maybe starting with a good idea and fleshing it out with characters that will fit in with it is a better go.

a) read a lot (reading is great for getting into different people's heads), b) read diverse fiction (because that way you're seeing points of view from a wide range of people - older books are great for this, too. Note that what is considered "normal" changes dramatically between different times and places.) and c) heavily use my imagination to build on other people's perspectives.

I really respect you for this! And I had the feeling someone would bring up reading! I've always regretted giving up fun reading as a kid-- I think my brains really suffered as a result X'D Still, I'm inclined to believe reading does what you say it does. I hardly ever write because I don't feel inspired or imaginative enough, so I wonder if that would help.
I also respect the amount of research you evidently perform to help you get going on a character. It sounds intensive but probably necessary to put your character in the proper setting.

My characters usually start with a vague idea of their personality, and a general concept of what role they will play in my story.

Sounds like a good starting point. Thanks!

One piece of advice that really helped me as a writer is to not worry too much about nailing down a character's voice in your first draft.

One, drafts-- I don't know why such a simple middle school English class concept has become so alien to me. I'm humbled. And that does sound reasonable-- when writing someone different than you, you can kind of get to know your character on the journey.

An interesting aside, visual novels are different from traditional novels in the sense that it is not uncommon for a VN to expect the reader to imagine themselves as the main character and thus for the MC to basically be a vehicle for the player to experience a fantasy.

I'd never thought of VNs in such a blunt manner, but now that I see it like this, I totally agree. I have to admit that's probably why I felt I could feasibly write something for a VN rather than a kinetic novel in the first place. (And that ultimately now that I would rather have a deeper purpose for a VN, why I haven't come up with anything good enough!)

Thinking about the purpose for a character and the whole story in general is something I've somehow forgotten, so thank you!
I came asking one thing, and found a bigger problem in the answers lol. The reason I haven't written in so long is at least partially because I haven't felt I had anything worthwhile to share to people that aren't just me. I should at least have an idea of that before I jump ahead, unless I want to have a silly, plotless story! I definitely appreciate hearing from people who are at least on the way to creating meaningful characters and stories.

[Mutive]

What I've found is that stories can survive without very good characters (think "The DaVinci Code"), but can rarely survive without a plot.

While having a good characters clearly enhances a novel, an awful lot of the time characters exist less because they're fun and more because they push the plot along. (Think an antagonist or a romantic interest or even a friend who creates the initial plot point by, say, going missing or finding something that makes the protagonist *do* something.) In each case, there are certain characteristics that a character needs to have even to fit into the plot (e.g. an antagonist needs to be working against the protagonist. A romantic interest needs to be appealing to the protagonist, etc.) So this sets a number of their characteristics almost by default.

Also, if any two characters are too much alike (or serve too much of an identical plot purpose), they can almost always be combined into one to simplify things. So that's good to keep in mind as well. (Your protagonist truly does not need two witty best friends who keep finding clues that help her solve the murder mystery. One is completely adequate.) Characters who are very similar also reduces conflict, which is the life and breath of stories. (If everyone is agreeing on everything, the story is very dull. And if a choice is made between two nearly identical options, why even give a choice?)

And yeah, I think you have to read a lot to be a good writer. Maybe there's a way around it that I'm not aware of, but it's advised for a reason and it really does help.

[White_Noise]

I personally think that sometimes self-inserts can actually make really good characters, if you're honest with the things that make you tick, and bring you pain. That honesty makes you as a writer vulnerable, and the more honest you are, the more realistic your characters become. A lot of people scoff at self inserts because they're sometimes power fantasies, but if that's what you need or want, you're still doing writing in the end; not everything needs to be production quality.

Personally, I think that all of the characters I write are like me, in one way or another, and some of them are genuine self-inserts! And I've been writing for a long, long time now. As you write more and more, you might learn to pluck just little bits of you out for each character, instead of making one character completely like you, aka. a self insert. You might make one character based on, say, an eventful memory from your childhood. Or stemming from one of your hobbies... For example, I'm autistic, and I write a lot of autistic characters, some very much like me, and some not at all.

Nobody writes from nowhere. To completely eschew your experiences in your writing is a mistake, I swear it. Because something inside you decided to write, not anybody else, and certainly not some character who has yet to be made. Listen to your creativity. You want to say something, so say it. Characters, plots and details can be edited later.

[droo_radley]

I echo what a lot of the others said, but I wanted to point out something about Callie Khouri and her Thelma and Louise screenplay - apparently, she knew the characters well enough that Geena Davis could ask Khouri about the kind of toothpaste Thelma would use, and Khouri would answer it quite immediately without any uncertainty.

We all self-insert when we need to plug in some gaps in our characters. But if the character is a bit more fleshed out and you know the core of the character, then you'll find less and less gaps to plug. It might be simplistic, but I've started basing every single character I write around a singular concept and goal. I attribute this to the story in the Heart of the Swarm expansion of StarCraft II. Maybe Kerrigan was a simpler character there, but you know what she's about, so you are clear about her goals and her tactics.

A lot of characters aim for "depth", but only end up being unclear because their motivation is diluted. If you're a mid-level writer like most of us are, then I say establish your foundation and get the simple stuff right. It makes for a stronger story than someone overreaching.

Just my humble mid-level opinion!

[Chronocide]

I don't consider myself a great writer in the slightest or even a good one, but it's starting to dawn on me that the "original" stuff I try to conquer in first person ends up sounding a lot like me or has alarming similarities. It's quite uncomfortable lol.
How do you end up writing characters that you want to be different than you? Do you try basing them off a friend or other character? If so, how do you get into that person's mind?
I'm just curious to see how real writers approach this.

Your characters will always have bits of you in them. It's unavoidable. But you can change their circumstances and role play the difference. You can also split your personality into multiple characters and have each one focus only on an aspect of you, like by having your angry self be an entire person instead of just a sliver of your personality, then you just answer them as if you were that personality sliver.

But the key with characters and people, in real life too, is to remember that everyone is equal. Same needs and desires, on a very basic level. So they should all be kinda similar. But then you add their personal circumstances and think about how those changes alter their perspective.

Regarding character role play, each character has:
1 what they think,
2 what they feel,
3 what they think others think,
4 what they communicate,
5 what they understand of the responses to their communication,
6 and then what is actually happening.

Real life features a lot of miscommunication and misinformation. There's a lot of unknowns.

So even if you have two identical characters, it might take a while before they are able to understand that they are identical to the other, and by that time, they may have had enough unique experiences to where they are no longer identical.

Anyway, if you characters keep ending up the same, perhaps try making them unable to make similar decisions. The most common one is a gender difference. Very commonly you'll see a story where the men and women are basically the same in terms of personality. But even with a basic change like this, they deviate into different people rather fast.

For example, you have two identical characters. Then you make 1 male and 1 female. They approach a restroom together. Men go the mens, women to the womens. The characters are already deviating from each other just by going to different restrooms. Perhaps, since they are identical, they are both pervs and both try to peep on the other in the bathroom. In both cases, another NPC catches them. Gender matters a lot here, as the NPC will likely have a different response to a man peeping than to a woman peeping.

And bathrooms is just basics. Clothes, everything.

Being taller means weighing more. Weighing more means that heavier things weigh proportionally less. With more weight, certain materials and styles become less practical, others become more practical. With a very tall character, they might not even be able to purchase clothes in their height, so will likely not hang out at the mall or buy clothes in a department store, which may give others the impression that they lack a fashion sense.

Names is a big one. If the male and female have the same name, it will likely get different responses. If the name is a common gender neutral one, then there will be mix ups.

Anyway, sorry, I guess I'm rambling at this point. I hope some of that helps.