Advice Needed When Working with a Composer

[Obscura]

Having only tossed a few tracks together on my own, I have no idea where to start when working with a composer.

I don't even know how to communicate what I need, really. As a VN maker, do you go to the composer and say "can you give me 3 sad tracks, 4 happy ones, and 1 track that sounds like chase music?"

Can I give him a song I like and say, "something like this?" How should the process work?

If anybody's got some advice or experience they could relate, I deeply appreciate it! I'd also love to hear any tips on how to make the process fun and go as smoothly as possible. Thank you.

[specialtantei]

I don't really have any useful advice but I can give you my experience on the matter. Here's how I work with my musician.

1.Ask him how he wants do things. Does he prefer to read the scene and compose whatever it makes him feel or just instructions? (Mine wanted the second option).

2.If he reads the scene things tend to be easier. Giving instructions is not. I just tell him what feeling I want to be conveyed, describe the situation the music is needed for, give some ideas for the instruments, beats, even example music.

3.Then he sends me some mock-up 10 second tracks. I pick one and he makes it longer. Some tweaks may be done afterwards but nothing more. The whole process takes about 2 days or 3, depending on his scheudle.

I don't think there is more to it. Of course describing a music track is difficult and simple instructions like 'Make it sad/happy' rarely give good results. It is even harder than describing art to your artist, so you should have a clear idea of what you want your music to sound like .

[Obscura]

I don't really have any useful advice

That was pretty dang useful. Thanks so much specialtantei.

[Calum Bowen]

As a composer myself, I can say that the best way (at least, for me) to work is to get as much info about the game as possible and have the developer send as many reference tracks or describe until they go blue in the face. For me, there's no such
thing as soon much. I think what you can't say in words can be easily conveyed to the composer by a few reference tracks.

The other important thing to do is know when to let the reigns a little loose. I've seen a lot of developers become very nitpicky seemingly only for the purpose of having something to say or being totally indecisive and that ends up with a composer working over and over again seemingly to no end. Often happens with composers who are working for free. My suggestion is to make sure you can put trust into your composer and have a healthy collaborative relationship. The best way to get this is to have (what may seem like exceedingly) long conversations before the composer starts work on a track. Come to an agreement about the specifics you're trying to convey (this may be after doing a few short mockups like tantei said). It'll save a lot of time and make your working relationship a lot better. Oh, re-working stuff is fine and bound to happen but when it comes to doing it maybe 5+ times or MAJORLY reworking things at the whim of the dev, then it's a little exploitative.

That's the bulk of learning from my experience and stuff I've heard from others really.

I wish you good luck with your work!

[Amorphous]

This is coming from the perspective of a composer, so it might not reflect what your composer is looking for. But for me, this is what I've noted about my own work with others:

1. Reference tracks are really useful. It is easier to describe pictures than music, and oftentimes descriptions for music turn out to be really, really vague, so having references will help pin down the desired style much more easily. Sometimes the best descriptions for music can actually be the name of another game that both the composer and the developer are familiar with, to get styles down.

2. Having art as reference is very important to me, not sure how important it is for other composers. Knowing what the game looks like and the art style can also help a lot with the music style and the mood the music should try to convey (so...I'd say, have either a mockup or a screenshot of the scene in question)

3. Different musicians handle revisions differently. The last project I worked on was a free project, so I just wrote the whole song at once without any revisions...for paid projects, I mock-up instrument samples and chords to establish mood, and once we agree on that, then I flesh out melodies, harmonies, etc. and work from there.

4. On more than one occasion, I've ended up writing something totally different than what the developer wanted (because of vague description), but he liked the result better than what he had originally - so sometimes being loose with interpretation can work in your favor. Of course, that will depend on the musician in question and what you are trying to accomplish.

Hope that is of some help to you.

[Obscura]

Thanks for your super helpful advice, Calum and Amorphous! (Based on your advice, I'll probably send reference music tracks if the composer is ok with that, and a screenshot as well, if he wants it.)

Incidentally, does anybody have a general rule to as how long a VN music track should be? I was estimating about 2 minutes long...but I guess it depends on scene length and such. Still, it would be good to know a rule of thumb as to length. I imagine a minute starts grating on people if they hear the track two many times...

[ZackParrish]

I think reference tracks would depend entirely on the composer you are dealing with. An inexperienced composer that is fine, but one that has a reputation for doing well, I would suggest giving them space to bring their expertise in designing a soundtrack for a game. The good ones typically have a better idea for how the music should sound for this place or that than let's say... a developer with no experience writing music? That sounds a little condescending but I'm just trying to say like.... if you have a decent composer, see what ideas he has before forcing a style onto him.

[uglymod]

I have no idea where to start when working with a composer.

Show them the project and the scenes you want the music to go in. Tell them what feeling you want from the music or sound. Then allow the artist to work.

[TerracottaPie]

If it's an inexperienced composer I'd suggest telling them what you want, along a similar vein to what you had in mind, e.g. "3 sad tracks, 4 happy ones, etc". Furthermore it'd be a good idea to point out what instruments you'd prefer to have in your soundtrack, that way, even if the composer isn't overly experienced, the fact the same or similar instruments will be used throughout should give a more consistent sounding musical direction. Showing them example scenes for them to get an idea of context will probably benefit them aswell.

For a more experienced or professional composer, just show them the scenes and give them some info on the setting and location then let them work their magic. Putting too many restrictions on them might not let them play to their personal strengths. If you want a specific musical style (though you should choose a composer based on the style you want) or instrument present you should try mentioning it, though.

In the industry, composers are often given the rough length (or specific length when it comes to radio and television), of a musical piece aswell, and if you want music to loop make sure to mention that too.

EDIT: Forgot to put a mention of average track length for a VN.

There's no industry standard, some VN's have music loops of a minute, others have tracks as long as ten minutes, though this is rare in VNs and the gaming industry in general. A good rule of thumb would be two to four minutes I'd say. If the composer is skilled enough then that should be enough time for a piece without the listener getting bored of the music. If it's a long scene you might want a longer piece, but I wouldn't call it necessary.

Most inexperienced composers will have trouble writing interesting longer pieces, so try and keep it within two to four minutes.

As for reference tracks, be careful. Some people might feel that they have to recreate their music in the same way as the reference track, so if you're using reference tracks make sure to just mention you want them to consider it as inspiration and direction, not as a hardcoded style they must follow.