Looking for music estimates with possibility of hiring!

Questions, skill improvement, and respectful critique involving music, sound, and movies.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Averxy
Regular
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:12 pm
Completed: Heartbaked, Ellaria: Cotton & Cream, Plain
Projects: Toil & Trouble, Twisted
Organization: fablesoft.itch.io
Tumblr: FablesoftStudios
Skype: Leahleas
Location: Canada
Contact:

Looking for music estimates with possibility of hiring!

#1 Post by Averxy »

Hello everybody!

My name is Leah and I'm a game developer that's part of the visual novel studio 'Fablesoft Studios'. Currently we're working on a large, commercial project and though we aren't in need of a composer for the project at this moment, we were hoping to ask around about price estimates for the music that would be needed.

We would prefer loops that are between 30 seconds to a minute in length, and the overall theme of the entire game is Halloween. We would need about 11 songs, though that's a rough estimate. More in depth information about the songs needed would be provided at the time when we're actually looking for a composer. We know the rough estimate of general prices, but we're looking for specific numbers from actual composers.

I hope this is enough information to provide me with a rough estimate, and thank you so much for your time. Please either leave a comment here, send me a PM or email me at altashton@yahoo.ca.
Completed: Heartbaked, Ellaria: Cotton & Cream, Plain
WIP: Toil & Trouble, Twisted
Check out Arena Circus, The Pretenders Guild, and Mnemonic Devices by Minyan!

Yolo400
Regular
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:49 am
Completed: Lifted Dreams
Projects: ----
Skype: Josou
Contact:

Re: Looking for music estimates with possibility of hiring!

#2 Post by Yolo400 »

Hey Leah!

I hope you're not aiming to release this at Halloween 2017 since music is a long thing to do, especially on the cheaper budgets. For music to be written that tells YOUR story, you need (and I mean need) as much info as possible sent to the composer about characters, settings et cetera, graphics. They need the user experience!!

Hans Zimmer Impostor: $200 a track. (will create you famous beautiful soundtrack that all fit nicely and are mastered and beautiful)
Average Internet Music Guy with Degree: $100 a track. (will create you decent soundtrack with great attention to detail that sounds very good!)
Average Internet Music Guy with no Degree: $25-50 a track. (will do a good job... maybe)
Average Internet Music Guy just starting out with no Qualification: $5-$25 a track. (will care a lot since you're probably one of their only customers, but will probably struggle with the order)
Homeless bum with no money and a Music Qualification: $1 a track (will do what little they can)
Homeless bum: A loaf of bread per track (may run off with your bread without delivering music - can't be trusted!!!!)

But, you will get, with all of these no doubt, a discount if you order all tracks at once.

I've slightly overestimated some of these prices, and they are not really an estimation of quality, a man who charges $200 per track might just be overpricing.

Music is a costly thing to make. I'll guide you through the process from a musicians perspective. (or at least, my process per track) - and how this justifies the cost(s)

The day of the Composer

Day 1
Composer wakes up in the morning filled with inspiration (it's a lucky day for this composer... inspiration is a rare thing when all you ate last night was stale pizza from the previous week) [8 AM.]
Composer drags themselves to Digital Audio Workstation (or DAW) and starts programming your track. They may latch onto a motif, or scrap 5-10 motifs along the way to find one you like. They may even be sending this to you, and keeps developing it into the barebones. [11 AM.]
Composer humanizes (makes the notes more human) on the motif and asks if you like it. [1 PM.] - They will wait on your response or be forced to work some more. This risks losing inspiration if responses are slow. But you respond immediately (how fortunate) -
Upon reading your response, the composer develops the motif further and it is reaching formation. [7 PM.] The composer sends the music to you claiming it to be finished.

It is now time for the composer to watch cat videos on YouTube, he has done enough for today and needs a rest. He receives a Skype message, you've changed a part of the script and it's time to redo part of the track.

Part of the track? The composer thinks!? Really?! I can't redo part of the track without spoiling the rest of it, so the only way to redo the track is to remake the track from scratch. The composer flicks back onto YouTube and giggles at little cats being cute.

Day 2:
Composer wakes up in the morning somehow filled with inspiration (it's a lucky day for this composer... inspiration is a rare thing when all you ate last night was stale pizza from the previous week) [8 AM.]
Composer drags themselves to Digital Audio Workstation (or DAW) and starts programming your track. They may latch onto a motif, or scrap 5-10 motifs along the way to find one you like. They may even be sending this to you, and keeps developing it into the barebones. [11 AM.]
Composer humanizes (makes the notes more human) on the motif and asks if you like it. [1 PM.] - They will wait on your response or be forced to work some more. This risks losing inspiration if responses are slow. But you respond immediately (how fortunate) -
Upon reading your response, the composer develops the motif further and it is reaching formation. [7 PM.] The composer sends the music to you claiming it to be finished.

You're happy with it! Celebrations all around! It's party time. The composer loads up YouTube and begins to watch cat video. He likes them, you see. Oh there's a funny one about elephant seals! Curious little creatures!

Day 3:
It's time to mix and master the track. [8 AM.]
Mixing is where the audio is processed so everything fits more clearly, it's a little like proofreading... but it also shapes the tone, style and energy of the overall track and takes longer. This can take several days if the composer is very diligent. It can also take an hour if not much needs to be done.
Let's assume mixing is done, now mastering comes. (but only at the end of the album, the composer will only master a track at the end of the album since mastering is where the overall tone of the playlist is set in stone and the "professional sound quality" is finally reached.)
This too can take anywhere from a few minutes to a day. Depending on how many audio artifacts are required to be removed.

Day 4: Sending it to the boss (you) and checking if it's all OK. Naturally, here's where frustration starts if you're not happy with it.

Why does it take 3 days to take something that can theoretically be composed and sent out in five minutes? Same reason it doesn't take several days to create a visual novel. LEL. Except each part of the Audio/Music Production process is vital for creating atmosphere required in a game. Those jingles that touch the soul, yo.

I was a composer but gave up in lieu of writing, it's so much easier to write a story than it is to compose music, and far easier to get paid for it. Only VN i've completed as Composer is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg7XiDS41g0 (under the name Josou) - and for free.

But overall, I hope this all helps. The best way to understand what a composer is worth is to look at the effort that they put in and then ask yourself if your $0.50 an hour or whatever shoddy change you're gonna give them will feed them for the days or months that they are working on your music.

I'm not offering my services to you, just giving you a guide from someone with experience who has done a hella market research and knows many musicians from all walks of life. What it all comes down to is are you hiring Noriyuki Asakura or are you hiring Mr DJ Matt who's been making tunes on fruity loops for sixteen and a half days and his tunes are banging.


I reckon you should base your music desires on what YOU want from your tracks, and that is to TELL A STORY. You want the listener to feel an emotion. Big time. So stock music is your best bet :lol: since it's cost effective.
Working on project "Lightning Cat" - Writing
music for sale
|| Thank you ||

User avatar
Averxy
Regular
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:12 pm
Completed: Heartbaked, Ellaria: Cotton & Cream, Plain
Projects: Toil & Trouble, Twisted
Organization: fablesoft.itch.io
Tumblr: FablesoftStudios
Skype: Leahleas
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Looking for music estimates with possibility of hiring!

#3 Post by Averxy »

Yolo400 wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:16 pm Hey Leah!
Hello Yolo400,

Thank you so much for offering your time to write a post, though I already knew most of that information. :) We definitely aren't looking to release the game for October of this year, considering the writing will barely even be done by then and we understand that quality takes time.

I've done my research into composing and prices, and I was hoping for more specific numbers from composers who are currently, or will be, looking to be hired. We don't want to go and find royalty free music as we feel that an OST would elevate our game and considering it will be commercial it would, quite frankly, feel as if we were copping out.

We'll be doing a kickstarter and as such we can afford the prices of a composer. As stated above I was looking for specific and real prices, not a general base price. I already have those haha. We want to figure out what we'll need to raise through the kickstarter and hopefully even be able to "reserve" (though I'd feel bad doing so considering people should take jobs that will need them as immediately as possible to keep up their productivity) a composer for when we would need them.

So thank you again for taking your time, I really do appreciate it! I definitely understand the process of making music and why it's so expensive, and I'm willing to pay for the time and quality.

Composers, writers, artists, and anybody else involved has to deal with the "Will this pay me enough to support me" struggle, including myself.
Completed: Heartbaked, Ellaria: Cotton & Cream, Plain
WIP: Toil & Trouble, Twisted
Check out Arena Circus, The Pretenders Guild, and Mnemonic Devices by Minyan!

Yolo400
Regular
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:49 am
Completed: Lifted Dreams
Projects: ----
Skype: Josou
Contact:

Re: Looking for music estimates with possibility of hiring!

#4 Post by Yolo400 »

Averxy wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:20 pm
Yolo400 wrote: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:16 pm Hey Leah!
Hello Yolo400,

Thank you so much for offering your time to write a post, though I already knew most of that information. :) We definitely aren't looking to release the game for October of this year, considering the writing will barely even be done by then and we understand that quality takes time.

I've done my research into composing and prices, and I was hoping for more specific numbers from composers who are currently, or will be, looking to be hired. We don't want to go and find royalty free music as we feel that an OST would elevate our game and considering it will be commercial it would, quite frankly, feel as if we were copping out.

We'll be doing a kickstarter and as such we can afford the prices of a composer. As stated above I was looking for specific and real prices, not a general base price. I already have those haha. We want to figure out what we'll need to raise through the kickstarter and hopefully even be able to "reserve" (though I'd feel bad doing so considering people should take jobs that will need them as immediately as possible to keep up their productivity) a composer for when we would need them.

So thank you again for taking your time, I really do appreciate it! I definitely understand the process of making music and why it's so expensive, and I'm willing to pay for the time and quality.

Composers, writers, artists, and anybody else involved has to deal with the "Will this pay me enough to support me" struggle, including myself.
There's no such things as copping out when it comes to how you're getting good music for your game. If you find source material that is amazing, three to four minutes in length instead of thirty to sixty seconds and communicates the story you want to tell and all fits together then you're happy then you've saved a lot of time, money and frustration.

There are loads of composers for sale on viewforum.php?f=65 all offering their services, which is why I gave you the long post.
Working on project "Lightning Cat" - Writing
music for sale
|| Thank you ||

User avatar
EscalanteMusic
Newbie
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:54 pm
Completed: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5081297/
Projects: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5081297/
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Looking for music estimates with possibility of hiring!

#5 Post by EscalanteMusic »

Hello!

Music pricing can be different for each development team, production quality, composer, etc. I'm a music composer who's worked on a lot of visual novels here (the Seduce Me series, ACE Academy, Remember Remember, Maid with Perfection, etc.) While a working professional composer may be pushing for $500 per minute of music (industry standard) a lot more beginner composers will charge less.

For example, I do try to push for $500 per minute of music when it comes to films and videos games that want a well-produced orchestral score, but when it comes to VN's and more electronic "anime-styled" music, I charge clients $100-$250 per track of background music and $300-$500 for a full song (OP with vocals, lyrics, etc.) Keep in mind for different composers, you will have to work out a deal for publishing and licensing rights to the music for your use, such as earning royalties for broadcasting with a Performance Rights Organization, album sales, publishing rights, etc. That could either lower your base rate, or make it higher depending on what rights and ownership you would like to split with your composer. (Hence the pricing ranges listed earlier.)

Since a lot of beginning VN developers don't often have a very decent budget, you can also look around this forum and find some beginning composers who would charge maybe $50 a track? Much like hiring an artist or voice actor though, the higher the price, the better the end result is going to be.

Hope that helps! :)
Christopher Escalante
Music Composer and Voice Actor

https://www.christopherescalante.com/

User avatar
EscalanteMusic
Newbie
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:54 pm
Completed: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5081297/
Projects: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5081297/
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Looking for music estimates with possibility of hiring!

#6 Post by EscalanteMusic »

If you are looking for a composer for your game, I would be happy to apply! For 30-second loops, I would also have to look at the production quality that you would like, but most of those would likely be $100 a track for full licensing use. If you would like the publishing rights to it as well, that rate doubles. Otherwise, I would retain the publishing rights to register for performance royalties on streaming sites, rights to sell the soundtrack and keep all profits, etc.

I'm definitely experienced and qualified, as I studied commercial music and audio engineering in college, and have been working on films, video games, and visual novels for about 8 years. If you would like to hear examples of my music or my credits list, you may do so on my website here: https://www.christopherescalante.com/

Thank you very much for your time and consideration!
Christopher Escalante
Music Composer and Voice Actor

https://www.christopherescalante.com/

Yolo400
Regular
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:49 am
Completed: Lifted Dreams
Projects: ----
Skype: Josou
Contact:

Re: Looking for music estimates with possibility of hiring!

#7 Post by Yolo400 »

Damn, Chris. Your music is sexy. By comparison I only charge a few bucks per track :)
Working on project "Lightning Cat" - Writing
music for sale
|| Thank you ||

User avatar
LeetMusic
Veteran
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:22 am
Completed: Cursed Lands, Roommates, Wildfire: Ticket To Rock, Seeds Of Chaos
Projects: LeetStreet Boys, Paladin Dream, Murder Is Game Over
Contact:

Re: Looking for music estimates with possibility of hiring!

#8 Post by LeetMusic »

Established pro working for a world-class publisher: $1000+ / minute for buyout (Often will work with live musicians instead of doing everything with samples.)
Indie composer with decent software and credentials: $200+ / minute, probably for license terms and no buyout. (Probably all samples, no live instruments.)
Student / hobbyist: $100 or less

User avatar
EscalanteMusic
Newbie
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:54 pm
Completed: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5081297/
Projects: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5081297/
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Looking for music estimates with possibility of hiring!

#9 Post by EscalanteMusic »

Yolo400 wrote: Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:20 am Damn, Chris. Your music is sexy. By comparison I only charge a few bucks per track :)
Thank you very much! about 10 years of experience, and far too much money spent on software. XP
Christopher Escalante
Music Composer and Voice Actor

https://www.christopherescalante.com/

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users