[Group Play 8] Touhou Mecha

A weekly event where a random games is played and discussed.
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Auro-Cyanide
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[Group Play 8] Touhou Mecha

#1 Post by Auro-Cyanide »

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Group Play is a weekly event in which one game is selected to be promoted within the forums to be played by us as a group. It provides an opportunity to promote some smaller games that would otherwise get lost, promote discussion and promote creativity. This isn't just about the creators of the games, but also us as a community. It acts as a way for us to analyse work as creative people and for us to develop the necessary critical language to develop and pursue our work.

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This week's game is "Touhou Mecha" by Graph!

You can find links to the game here: Touhou Mecha

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There are some rules to follow in the following discussion about the game.

- In your primary comment on the game, please try to mention one thing you liked and one thing you think could be improved. This is in the spirit of giving both encouraging and helpful comments to the creators. You may of course go beyond this with praise or critique. I can't enforce this rule, I'll just silently judge you.

- Please try to do one play-through or enough of the game to develop a solid opinion. Some things can be commented on early on, but things like plot might be best left until you finish the game.

- There is no rule as to whether you post here only or in the completed game topic. Feel free to do as you like. This is just a space to discuss this game while playing it at the same time as others.

- Please try to think about the game play as a whole, as well as the different parts that make up the game.

- Please be respectful to the game and creator. You don't have to like a game, but you should be respectful to the effort.

- Please follow the forum rules.

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If you would like to make your own suggestions and haven't already, please feel free to PM them to me.

These are the current guidelines for suggestions:

- Anyone can send me 3 games (VN, KN Sim, whatever, just from these forums or related to) that they think are worth playing by PM.
- There can only be three suggestions per person and if a game gets suggested multiple times, they still only get one draw.
- You may suggest your own games.
- For now they must not be 18+, just because we want to encourage everyone to join first up. If it goes well, maybe something can be arranged for the big kids.
- Please try to make sure the game is short (around a max of 30,000 words). It isn't a hard and fast rule, but it's easier to make time for smaller games and it will give this a greater chance of success.
- They must be free and preferably available on all 3 platforms, again for easy access.

And with that, let the games begin!

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Re: [Group Play 8] Touhou Mecha

#2 Post by Applegate »

It should be noted that this VN is perfectly readable even without Touhou knowledge. It has superb animation and its writing is very good; The opening is a little slow and info-dumpy, but take into account this is a continuation of a web comic, so some leeway is granted there. (by me, anyway)

What this VN does best is that there is no narration beyond the opening. Everything is done using visuals, either animation or drawings. I think it's one of the best VNs out there.

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Re: [Group Play 8] Touhou Mecha

#3 Post by Graph »

Ah! I didn't know fangames were up for consideration. But thanks for choosing this game!

It takes about an hour to read through, so don't be afraid to jump in. If you have some critique to offer, don't hold back! :)

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Re: [Group Play 8] Touhou Mecha

#4 Post by Arelune »

I don't normally play fan games. Oh well...
Let me just say I have zero knowledge of this Touhou universe.

The battles are great. All those special effects. O_o An applause for that.
The art looks good too. Especially the mechas and machinery.
The GUI fits the story nicely. Only the main screen is maybe a bit bare (it's only the logo now).
Conclusion: Artwise, it looks very polished.

Now, storywise it was a bit meh for me. It didn't find it engaging. The info-dump at the beginning didn't really help that impression. I didn't care about the characters at all. The dialogue was almost all about the business. Some more emotion or banter might have been nice.
All right, it's just chapter one and I haven't read the webcomic, but meh.

Btw are all the people in this universe girls? There really was not ONE man. :O

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Re: [Group Play 8] Touhou Mecha

#5 Post by SusanTheCat »

The visuals in the KN are awesome. The animations are superb. The music and sound effects are really good.

The second half of it is a delight.

HOWEVER

I tried to watch this before and I couldn't get past the talking heads at the start. I think the novel would be better off to just start with the gate opening. Everything I learned in the exposition, I would have picked up during the course of the animation.

It's like going to a Broadway show, but first there is a half hour lecture on the history of dirt given by a first year student that hates dirt.

Given that the title is "Chapter One", I hope there will be more chapters. I would cut out the exposition at the start and put it into an optional "Backstory" section. Then I would shorten the talking heads at the start of chapter one by half.

@Arelune: Lack of men makes me sad. :cry:

Here is my Let's Play of it.



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Re: [Group Play 8] Touhou Mecha

#6 Post by Graph »

You know what, if I can jettison the opening narration I'll do just that. It's bothered me a bit too; I haven't planned on doing that kind of opening sequence for any of the other Chapters. I added some dialogue during the beta-test stage of this game, so maybe I explained most what was at the start without realizing it.

I don't know how much we can help being logistical here; They're in the middle of a military operation and such. But I do know a few other folks who had trouble connecting to the story. If I figure something out while writing the later Chapters, I'll revisit this one.

It's true, the guys aren't really important in the Touhou world! So this KN is kind of an oddity when you consider some of the more serious takes on military have nothing but men. There's this one guy who may show up later though...

And thanks for taking the time to LP it Susan. When put like that, I see that it would help if the first half can pull people in rather than rushing to establish the setting. Not much use establishing things if the readers quit before the good part! I must get back in touch with my humanity, it seems to have drifted while I wasn't looking.

EDIT: You know what, even though I already covered it in the webcomic I should probably open up with the battle against the tsuchigumo instead of narration! Mainly need to make sprites for the spider mecha and some more poses for the Tengu, which I'll need later anyway. Should be able to shave off some of the explanations at the same time.

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Re: [Group Play 8] Touhou Mecha

#7 Post by Arelune »

The term 'talking heads' made me figure out what was bothering me about it. It's not like there aren't any other stories who have a lot of talking at the beginning. It feels so dry because there's no narriator to colour the world and show the actions of the characters. The style you've chosen heavily relies on cinematography (or animation and special effects in VN) and dialogue to work. In the first half there are not as many effects and the dialogue was just exposition, which is why it was rather boring.
Personally I wouldn't have used this style, it just has too many handicapts. But looking at the second half, you can make it work.
Graph wrote:It's true, the guys aren't really important in the Touhou world! So this KN is kind of an oddity when you consider some of the more serious takes on military have nothing but men.
Ah, I see. All those girls were giving me a shoujo-ai/yuri vibe. ^^' The elevator scene especially.

@SusanTheCat : It makes me sad too. :(

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Re: [Group Play 8] Touhou Mecha

#8 Post by Graph »

Arelune wrote:The term 'talking heads' made me figure out what was bothering me about it. It's not like there aren't any other stories who have a lot of talking at the beginning. It feels so dry because there's no narriator to colour the world and show the actions of the characters. The style you've chosen heavily relies on cinematography (or animation and special effects in VN) and dialogue to work.
That's some good insight. Before making VNs, I was working in comic book/ manga format, which adds a lot of nuance with how each panel is framed and the unique poses and expressions in every panel. Part of the reason I decided to go into Visual Novel format was to make the use of art more economical, but apparently there's too large of a gap between how the first half is handled and how the second half is. I'm going to try to come up with a better compromise; I'd like this KN to be enjoyable even for folks who didn't pick it up because it's Touhou.

Going narrator-less can be challenging, now that you mention it. Maybe that's why so many VNs like giving the protagonist a first-person-view. But I definitely won't let that deter me! I want to bring as much of an anime experience as I can muster as a one-man army. Thanks for your comments!
Arelune wrote:Ah, I see. All those girls were giving me a shoujo-ai/yuri vibe. ^^' The elevator scene especially.
The original Touhou games are pretty tame and don't give off the shoujo-ai vibes at all. A lot of the fanworks on the other hand, tend to jack up the sexy level... and sometimes become more popular than the original! (Among a certain fraction of the fanbase at least. Guilty as charged!)

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Re: [Group Play 8] Touhou Mecha

#9 Post by Applegate »

Obligatory request to enter at least one male in the equation so us non-Touhouians can fanship him like crazy. :D

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Re: [Group Play 8] Touhou Mecha

#10 Post by KimiYoriBaka »

Obligatory request to enter at least one male in the equation so us non-Touhouians can fanship him like crazy. :D
the problem here is that there's only ever been like two male characters in the touhou universe. one of them, genji, has been phased out of existence since long before this point (ignoring the fact that he was a really old giant turtle). that doesn't leave many choices in a non-harem series (ignoring manrisa jokes)

Still, I would be very interested myself if they find an excuse to throw the other male touhou character in...

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Re: [Group Play 8] Touhou Mecha

#11 Post by Arelune »

Graph wrote: But I definitely won't let that deter me! I want to bring as much of an anime experience as I can muster as a one-man army.
I can only say good luck then. If you can make it work well, you'll definitely gain some fans.
KimiYoriBaka wrote:the problem here is that there's only ever been like two male characters in the touhou universe. one of them, genji, has been phased out of existence since long before this point (ignoring the fact that he was a really old giant turtle).
I guess that's one way to prevent yaoi fanfics of your characters from spreading around...Maybe... Shippers are crazy especially the yaoi kind, you'll never know what they'll do...

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Re: [Group Play 8] Touhou Mecha

#12 Post by cuttlefish »

I thought I would try this game to see the animations. They were quite good, but I wonder if there is a way to make the transitions faster for a more "action-packed" feel (especially during the battle with the exploding and repairing of enemy mechas). Having said that, I liked the glow animations for the gate and mechas the best. The art was nice, and I especially liked the cockpit backgrounds.

Regarding the story, I didn't think the beginning info-dump presented the story's conflicts very well. After the short introductions of the parties involved, I did not feel like taking one side or another. In fact, once I reached the end of the KN, I wasn't sure why everyone was fighting each other. I admit I wasn't reading too closely into the history lesson (Blazing Hell vs. Remnants of Hell?). But, besides not knowing about the Touhou universe, I feel the game should be able to stand on its own without knowledge from the web comic either.
Arelune wrote:Btw are all the people in this universe girls? There really was not ONE man. :O
...Wasn't Momiji a guy? Or did I miss something?

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Re: [Group Play 8] Touhou Mecha

#13 Post by KimiYoriBaka »

...Wasn't Momiji a guy? Or did I miss something?
see, this is one of the characters that really wasn't detailed enough in the original game, but the conventions of the series (or really, the fanbase) said was female. momiji was originally just a name and a tiny sprite with a sword.

I really like touhou mecha's portrayal of momiji just because she's distinguished as being female in certain ways, while still looking rather masculine.

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