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The reason they are out of order is because I randomized the list and only take the first x items so the game is different every time you play.

I know a bit more coding so I should be able to create a count down timer.

I could also code a highscore board. With a bit of thinking I could make it an online board. Hints would add so many seconds on to your time.

Susan

SusanTheCat wrote:The reason they are out of order is because I randomized the list and only take the first x items so the game is different every time you play.

Which I like -- a lot.

SusanTheCat wrote:I know a bit more coding so I should be able to create a count down timer.

Awesome!!!

SusanTheCat wrote:I could also code a high-score board. With a bit of thinking I could make it an online board.

Hmm... I think just an in-game scoreboard would be enough. As far as I know, Renpy games still can't be run online, so an online scoreboard wouldn't be needed.

SusanTheCat wrote:Hints would add so many seconds on to your time.
-- Susan

Would that mean that using a hint adds a Time Penalty, say adding 5 seconds to your already accumulated time? That would be awesome too! However, we'll also need to add a pop-up image to warn the player that time has been added.

Finally, someone who understands just how much work goes into making the graphics for one of these! Each room took 2 whole days to create and decorate -- and there were only 9 of them.

I know, right! I don't think someone can fully appreciate how much work it takes until they try to do it themselves, haha.

I think the original code counted down the hints. I'll have to go back and see if I can find a way to reintroduce that without it being on a text-button.

Maybe you could show the remaining number of hints when you hover on the button? That's the least obtrusive way I can think of, at least.

Some of the professional games do this. That's where I got the idea.

Ohh, okay. Never mind then.

I don't know how to code either one. Also, I'm not sure I want to do that. The game is already too easy to play.

Fair enough. I think if you did want to sort them alphabetically, though, there is a function to do that in Python.

This is the specific piece of code that has to be adjusted to change the way the item list looks. Line 4 in particular:

Ohoho, you are using UI functions? That is an area of great mystery to me. xD Have you considered trying the newer Screen Language? That's actually what the code I posted was for, and I think it's generally easier to use and "prettier" than UI functions. You can use Screen Language to do the "pop up" screen you mentioned quite easily as well. (Okay, I'll stop plugging screen language now lol).

Hmm... I think just an in-game scoreboard would be enough.

I think this would be a cool idea. Like if you have a screen accessible from the main menu that keeps track of your best times/scores. Maybe you could even assign "ranks" to different scores (e.g. "Novice" to "Master"), though you'd have to decide what score thresholds determine those.

Arowana wrote:I don't think someone can fully appreciate how much work it takes until they try to do it themselves, haha.

Which is probably why there are so few hidden object games done with Renpy; two games by Susan the Cat, creator of the code, and one by me.

Arowana wrote:Maybe you could show the remaining number of hints when you hover on the button? That's the least obtrusive way I can think of, at least.

Hm... Since I'm using an imagemap for the hover function of the Hint Button, that might be a bit more difficult than it appears, but I think I can get a text count-down next to the hint button...

Arowana wrote:I think if you did want to sort them alphabetically, though, there is a function to do that in Python.

The list is Randomly generated, which is what makes each room different every time. Alphabetizing the list might interfere with the randomizing code.

Arowana wrote:Ohoho, you are using UI functions? That is an area of great mystery to me. xD

Me too, especially since I didn't write the original code. Screen code is still pretty mysterious to me too. You're better off asking SusanTheCat about coding. She's the genius that created this code. I pretty much just rearranged what I copy-pasted.

Arowana wrote:

Hmm... I think just an in-game scoreboard would be enough.

I think this would be a cool idea. Like if you have a screen accessible from the main menu that keeps track of your best times/scores. Maybe you could even assign "ranks" to different scores (e.g. "Novice" to "Master"), though you'd have to decide what score thresholds determine those.

And then invite friends to compete with you!

Hm... Since I'm using an imagemap for the hover function of the Hint Button, that might be a bit more difficult than it appears, but I think I can get a text count-down next to the hint button...

If you're using screen language, you could just set an action on "hovered" for that hotspot, like using tooltips. I don't see any reason why that couldn't work for an imagemap. Though if you're using UI functions, I admittedly have no idea if they can do that, too, lol.

The list is Randomly generated, which is what makes each room different every time. Alphabetizing the list might interfere with the randomizing code.

I imagine you would take the randomly generated list after it's created and sort that, so I don't see how the two steps would conflict.

Me too, especially since I didn't write the original code. Screen code is still pretty mysterious to me too. You're better off asking SusanTheCat about coding. She's the genius that created this code. I pretty much just rearranged what I copy-pasted.

Lol! Well, if you are at all interested in learning screen language in the future, I would definitely recommend it. I think it would be super useful for the types of things you are doing here.

Arowana wrote:If you're using screen language, you could just set an action on "hovered" for that hotspot, like using tooltips. I don't see any reason why that couldn't work for an imagemap. Though if you're using UI functions, I admittedly have no idea if they can do that, too, lol.

Unfortunately, the code is using ui functions.

Arowana wrote:

The list is Randomly generated...

I imagine you would take the randomly generated list after it's created and sort that, so I don't see how the two steps would conflict.

UI Functions, remember? It makes things...complicated.

Arowana wrote:Lol! Well, if you are at all interested in learning screen language in the future, I would definitely recommend it. I think it would be super useful for the types of things you are doing here.

I am learning screen language. In fact my two most recently released games are done in screen language. Although, nether one is a hidden object game. One is a kinetic novel (Alchemical Ink) and the other a visual novel (The Visitor). Links are in my signature.

OokamiKasumi wrote:

I found the words to describe the items annoying, I don't really want to know the names of all those types of butterflies, when looking for "illumination" I tried to find an illuminated manuscript, and I had troubles finding the landscape because it had a house in it (and therefore wasn't a landscape).

Good. That was supposed to add to the difficulty of play.

OokamiKasumi wrote:

Arowana wrote:As mentioned above, some of the terms being used for the objects were rather strange (like “illumination” for the lamp, “reflection” for the mirror, etc.) Perhaps you were trying to increase the difficulty, but I did find it a bit odd.

Some of the professional games do this. That's where I got the idea.

I didn't find that the descriptions made the game harder, just made me painfully aware that I was playing a game and lessened the fun for me. I don't mind finding interesting ways to name things, especially since was in the Lady's personality to describe them that way, but they should be correctly defined and not so obscure that I need to pull up google to know what I'm looking for. I am aware that it is fairly common practice in these games, but I think it's a poor one (I find incorrect uses of words especially common and irksome). Adding difficulty should enhance the experience, not just make it hard. Anyway, I guess I'm saying that the things to find were so well integrated with the background that I expected the rest of the game play to be as carefully managed.

This is sounding a lot harsher than I intend, I just want to make my position clear, not tell you how to write your game (if I were I'd need to get off my high horse and make my own). I just think that you have the ability to do better and don't want you to settle just because it's been done that way before. Honestly, I don't mind if it's easy as long as it's fun. If you disagree with me and continue doing things this way for your next game in this genre I will still gladly play it. At the end of the day I enjoyed myself and I think I'll go play it again right now.

Sharm wrote:...I just want to make my position clear, not tell you how to write your game (if I were I'd need to get off my high horse and make my own). I just think that you have the ability to do better and don't want you to settle just because it's been done that way before. Honestly, I don't mind if it's easy as long as it's fun. If you disagree with me and continue doing things this way for your next game in this genre I will still gladly play it. At the end of the day I enjoyed myself and I think I'll go play it again right now.

Wow Sharm, you're good at this diplomacy stuff. Like; really good. You've actually convinced me to think more carefully about word choice and to carefully consider what habits I pick up from commercial games. (After all, Commercial does NOT equal Perfect.) 5 points to your corner!

I will definitely do better and think more carefully in my next game.

Just to be contrary... I liked the obscure words But that's likely because I'm good at them. Similarly, I don't like platform games because my hand-eye coordination is poor.

But I think you always have to keep in mind the audience.
If it was a Victorian game, you could expect players to know the difference between a cross-stitch and a needlepoint.
If it was a Fantasy game: the difference between a goblin and an orc.
If it was a Steampunk game: the difference between a cog and a gasket.

Susan

SusanTheCat wrote:Just to be contrary... I liked the obscure words But that's likely because I'm good at them.

Me too. However, Sharm has a point in that I should be more careful of what I choose.

SusanTheCat wrote:Similarly, I don't like platform games because my hand-eye coordination is poor.

I don't like platform games either; for the same reason.

SusanTheCat wrote:But I think you always have to keep in mind the audience.

Agreed.

SusanTheCat wrote:If it was a Victorian game, you could expect players to know the difference between a cross-stitch and a needlepoint.
If it was a Fantasy game: the difference between a goblin and an orc.
If it was a Steampunk game: the difference between a cog and a gasket.

Excellent points, so I'm keeping the obscure vocabulary, but I will be more careful about choosing those that actually fit the theme.

I suppose you could also have it be more like a crossword where you are aren't given the actual word, but hints for what the word might be. That could be a lot of fun and make it more difficult if the hints were written well. That could work really well also if people are infering meaning from the story. Like if the character got to read a letter about a certain object that was never named and only vaguely referenced to and then had to search the house looking for the object in question, all the while uncovering new pieces of information that help the story unfold.

OokamiKasumi wrote:Excellent points, so I'm keeping the obscure vocabulary, but I will be more careful about choosing those that actually fit the theme.

Perfect! Thanks for all the complements BTW, I've been feeling sick and it made my day.

Auro-Cyanide wrote:I suppose you could also have it be more like a crossword where you are aren't given the actual word, but hints for what the word might be. That could be a lot of fun and make it more difficult if the hints were written well.

What a great idea!

Auro-Cyanide wrote:That could work really well also if people are inferring meaning from the story. Like if the character got to read a letter about a certain object that was never named and only vaguely referenced to and then had to search the house looking for the object in question, all the while uncovering new pieces of information that help the story unfold.

Oooh... I like that.

Sharm wrote:Perfect! Thanks for all the complements BTW, I've been feeling sick and it made my day.

I meant every word.

Well, you know you've done something right when your Group Play is this active.

I don't have much to add. I liked the art style and felt the objects were very well integrated. I won't lie, some of them were kinda hard to find! I was a little confused by the hint system at first. I had trouble finding some butterfly and I guess I didn't intuit how the the hints worked, so I clicked it twice before I realized that a mouseover would find the item (I guess I was expecting a dialogue hint).

The storyline led me down the wrong rabbit hole... I thought the lady was going to be some crazy murderer or something, the way she kept talking. I guess that just shows where my mind's at--I went to the dark place first thing.

It was a little hard for me to sit through a game that was nothing but hidden items, I think the mechanic functions best as a mini-game combined with other kinds, but I enjoyed it.

saguaro wrote:Well, you know you've done something right when your Group Play is this active.

Naaa.... It just means that I'm replying to every little thing.

saguaro wrote:I don't have much to add. I liked the art style and felt the objects were very well integrated. I won't lie, some of them were kinda hard to find!

Thank you!

saguaro wrote:I was a little confused by the hint system at first. I had trouble finding some butterfly and I guess I didn't intuit how the the hints worked, so I clicked it twice before I realized that a mouse-over would find the item (I guess I was expecting a dialogue hint).

Actually, a white outline is supposed to appear around the object first -- then the mouse-over. I don't know how to do pop-up dialogue. The Tool-Tips function is still a huge mystery to me.

saguaro wrote:The storyline led me down the wrong rabbit hole... I thought the lady was going to be some crazy murderer or something, the way she kept talking. I guess that just shows where my mind's at--I went to the dark place first thing.

Oh so my fake-out worked? YES!

saguaro wrote:It was a little hard for me to sit through a game that was nothing but hidden items, I think the mechanic functions best as a mini-game combined with other kinds, but I enjoyed it.

I'm glad you liked it.