Advice/Critique Wanted

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reguildcharm
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Advice/Critique Wanted

#1 Post by reguildcharm » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:24 pm

Hi, I'm Zineth ^_^
So, I need help with my drawing. I'm usually only drawing sketches using pencil and paper,
but I decided to try out Paint Tool Sai.
This is my second drawing using the program(my first was an epic fail chibi T__T"),
and I need help before I start making other characters for my VN :) Here it is:
Mari.png
This is the main character for the VN I'm making.
Edited Version:

Please critique this drawing instead ;D i.e. Any remaining oddities in body proportions,
coloring advice, etc.
From the edit, these are the things changed: Eyes, Smaller nose, Shirt(buttons added), Watch added, Arm length longer, Wider hips, Different Skirt, Longer legs with different shading.
NewMari.png
Yay! Found some time to edit the new & improved main character!
Most Recent Edited Version:
(Bottom post for editing specifics)
Newest Mari.png
Last edited by reguildcharm on Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Applegate
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Re: Advice/Critique Wanted

#2 Post by Applegate » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:25 pm

Could you clarify exactly what you need help on? It's difficult to tell where you applied stylistic choices and what areas you feel are off.

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Re: Advice/Critique Wanted

#3 Post by reguildcharm » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:50 pm

Applegate wrote:Could you clarify exactly what you need help on? It's difficult to tell where you applied stylistic choices and what areas you feel are off.
Well, I feel the anatomy is a bit off proportions, but at the same time,
I can't really tell if that's exactly what's making the image a bit odd for me to look at.
^_^" Maybe it's the eyes too? Or the odd clothes? Those might be the main issues,
but other opinions would be good as to what to change to make the drawing seem more...normal, lol.

As for stylistic choices, I don't really have too much of a constant style
other than how I shade with colors(somewhat formulaic).

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Re: Advice/Critique Wanted

#4 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:30 pm

reguildcharm wrote:Hi, I'm Zineth ^_^
So, I need help with my drawing. I'm usually only drawing sketches using pencil and paper,
but I decided to try out Paint Tool Sai.
This is my second drawing using the program(my first was an epic fail chibi T__T"),
and I need help before I start making other characters for my VN :) Here it is:
Mari.png
Hi, Zenith!

Well, first off the drawing is extremely top-heavy, and I don't mean just the breasts. Your anatomy is basically set up like an inverted triangle, with everything getting smaller and more narrow the lower on the figure you go. This is likely caused by you being too focused on the main focal points of the character - i.e. the head and breasts. It's the same reason it is easy for artist's to make eyes too big, even when going for realism - we tend to draw the things we consider most important larger than they actually are. It is something to watch out for and be aware of.

The hip-to-shoulder ration is important for distinguishing men from women. Women tend to have wide hips, usually as wide as their shoulders (if passed puberty), if not wider. Men tend to have wider shoulders (due to muscle mass) and hips that are more narrow than their shoulders (no birth canal to accommodate).

Other things to watch for is not to cut figures off at any joints. Your figure's arm that goes behind her back is cut off at the wrist. It makes her look handless. You either want to put more of the arm behind the back, or keep the hand visible. You'll probably be best redrawing the arm so the hand is visible - it is good practice and doesn't make it look like you are trying to avoid drawing hands!

Lastly, start every figure off by drawing the character naked, without any clothing. You don't have to draw any naughty bits (I draw the nipples, but just so I can use them as landmarks in perspective). It will help you quickly identify any anatomy or pose problems right off the bat, and you can't just hide problems under clothing. For instance, you likely would have noticed the narrowing problem with the anatomy in this drawing if the clothes weren't there, because the pelvis really wouldn't have worked without the skirt hiding it.

Your coloring style is simple, but nice to look at. The cell-shaded coloring method really relies on knowing anatomy and form though, so be sure to practice!

Off-Topic:
I am drawing today and it is SO COLD in my house! I keep having to put my stylus down to flex and blow hot air on my fingers! And I'm wearing a coat and scarf inside! I feel like Mickey Mouse in a Christmas Carol.

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Re: Advice/Critique Wanted

#5 Post by Applegate » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:44 pm

LateWhiteRabbit's words are always sagely advice, so save them to a .txt and cherish them! (Wh, what, am I the only one that does that...?)

Outside of that, he's very right about your anatomy being problematic. I can't claim to be a very great artist, but I think I can give you some pointers anyhow. For one... well, for the arms, what I found very helpful is this:

http://turtle-arts.deviantart.com/art/Q ... -292876095


What I did starting out is... I looked up examples of basic help lines people use to draw figures. There's a lot of ways to go about it, so best to try a few and see what works for you. After some observation (and helpful comments), you start to see that the size of the body is measurable in the number of times the head fits into it. For example, the width of the body I find is often about the size of 1 head flipped 90 degrees, whereas torso + pelvis is about 2 heads (neck isn't included!).

The arms themselves consist of two halves, each half being about the size from shoulder to belly button.

What I think is really good of you is that you've drawn hands. Or, er, one hand. And it doesn't look bad! Being daring enough to draw something so complex deserves respect, and I'm sure if you applied some study to the human anatomy you can create something that'd make you feel a lot more comfortable with the proportions. I don't have a ready guide for proportions however, but I'm sure someone does.

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Re: Advice/Critique Wanted

#6 Post by reguildcharm » Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:08 pm

LateWhiteRabbit wrote: Hi, Zenith!

Well, first off the drawing is extremely top-heavy...
Ah! That makes more sense now that there's reasoning, haha.
I did end up spending more time on the upper-body since
they're usually the parts I notice more when I look at others' drawings.
Also, when I was drawing part of the anatomy, I didn't draw the entire body
but rather stopped before drawing out the limbs(arms & legs) so I wasn't
able to notice the body difference until I finished drawing the entire thing.
Also, I've never been to great with drawing the hands, so I suppose practice
on anatomy is really what I need ^_^".
Thank you for the help! ;D

Off Topic Reply: I'm having to wear gloves just to type, lol. The weather has been crazy lately!
Applegate wrote: LateWhiteRabbit's words are always sagely advice, so save them to a .txt and...
I'll be bookmarking that link! :) It'll be great help when I can
start changing the arm poses and whatnot. I'll need the
practices since hands and arms were never my cup of tea
(especially those joints on the hands T__T").
I'll go and edit my poor, inverted triangle body drawing! *poofs for a bit*

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Re: Advice/Critique Wanted

#7 Post by reguildcharm » Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:41 pm

NewMari.png
From Edited Topic Post!
(Image also posted on topic post)
Personally, the image is much better for me to look at.
I think the height of the skirt needs a bit of adjusting,
but I don't know, lol. Maybe it's normal?
The watch will play an important part in VN I'm making.
Critiques? :)

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Re: Advice/Critique Wanted

#8 Post by nefferinthia » Tue Jan 07, 2014 4:52 pm

Her shoulders are wider than her hips, this is almost never the case in women. Her face is also too large for her head.

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Re: Advice/Critique Wanted

#9 Post by reguildcharm » Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:49 pm

Harumi Fujyoshi wrote:Her shoulders are wider than her hips, this is almost never the case in women. Her face is also too large for her head.
Shoulders & Hips will be edited again(I think I understand more as to where to measuring the shoulders, but I'll keep looking at more references).
And what do you mean by the face is too large?
(Eyes, nose, & mouth need to be smaller?)

Also, thanks for the input! :)

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Re: Advice/Critique Wanted

#10 Post by noeinan » Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:57 pm

I think they meant that the face itself (eyes, nose, mouth) are scaled a little too big for the outline of the face.

Though there are some differences in anime/manga style, generally you want some space between the eyes and the edge of the face (about half the width of the eye.) I don't have access to a proper drawing program right now, but I made a basic graph of face proportions-- one for a more realistic style and one in a more SD style. Hope it helps.

Image
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Re: Advice/Critique Wanted

#11 Post by reguildcharm » Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:44 pm

daikiraikimi wrote:I think they meant that the face itself...
I see! Thanks for the tip! ;D I'll keep in mind the general half-width distance. Back to editing mode!

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Re: Advice/Critique Wanted

#12 Post by reguildcharm » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:17 pm

After finding time to edit, I finished my 3rd draft!
Edited: One position of the arm/hand, distance between eyes,
leg length changed, shirt changed, and slightly longer hair.
Newest Mari.png
Here's the 3rd draft!(Hopefully the last for this character)
What do you guys think now? ;D
(Also, I'm going to research more about drawing clothes soon.)

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Re: Advice/Critique Wanted

#13 Post by MaiMai » Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:07 pm

It's better. The overall balance has been fixed and the arm length makes more sense. Other things to note:

* Breasts can still be drawn better. I know a lot of anime/manga style tend to have busty girls drawn with balloon boobs, but look up how to draw actual breasts, not volleyballs on the chest.

* Transition among the torso, pelvis, and legs still need to be fixed; the pelvis and hips need more indication.

* Hands are too small. The general rule of thumb is that when you draw hands, it should be able to cover the character's face. As it is, her face is still way too big for her palms to even cover half of it.

* What size canvas are you drawing on? The way you resized the image is awfully small, and I think you'd benefit from drawing all the way to the edge, not just so her legs are cut off halfway down her caves and she's just floating in space (especially if you're going to use this as a VN sprite).
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Re: Advice/Critique Wanted

#14 Post by reguildcharm » Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:36 pm

MaiMai wrote:It's better. The overall balance...
I think the problem with the pelvis and hips are mainly because of the clothes(the body itself without the clothes easily show all parts in a more defined way). The resizing on everything else is noted and will edited. And the canvas is 500x700, but the canvas in which I use to draw and edit is 600x900, which leaves enough space to finish the rest of the drawing. Thank you! :)

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Re: Advice/Critique Wanted

#15 Post by MaiMai » Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:01 pm

reguildcharm wrote:
MaiMai wrote:It's better. The overall balance...
I think the problem with the pelvis and hips are mainly because of the clothes(the body itself without the clothes easily show all parts in a more defined way). The resizing on everything else is noted and will edited. And the canvas is 500x700, but the canvas in which I use to draw and edit is 600x900, which leaves enough space to finish the rest of the drawing. Thank you! :)
You've drawn a form fitting shirt and skirt, so you still need to work on refining how you draw hips and pelvis either way.

600x900 is not a size I would draw at for a sprite. Try doubling it.
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