How can I improve this picture ?

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Keepal
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How can I improve this picture ?

#1 Post by Keepal » Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:36 am

Hi everyone,

I know how to code in Python but I'm not very good at drawing so I use 3D third party software to make some character for my VN, recently I tried to improve my skill by modifying my character directly in Photoshop and put some light here, some shadow there, etc ...

My question is how can I improve this kind of picture ?

Read this before : I want to warn anyone that I know there's an adult section but I got a script issue when I want to join it plus this picture is just a nude girl without any offensive details (IMO) and my VN isn't sexualy related at all, I just didn't want to lose time putting some cloth on her, here's the link :

https://image.ibb.co/kw5Pvz/test3_retouch.png

On this one I add the light line on the boddy, place some shadows, remove some hair and others stuff, as it come from a 3D third party software and I want a 2D picture-like, my goal is to have the most flat picture possible.

Do you think this is enough or the 3D effect is still too visible ? What can I do to change it if it's the case ?

Thank you.

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Selidor
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Re: How can I improve this picture ?

#2 Post by Selidor » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:42 am

You’ve done a good job so far of making it look closer to hand-drawn 2D, and it doesn’t have that ‘creepy’ vibe that a lot of 3D models in VNs do.

Some observations:
The line doesn’t really look like a hand-drawn 2D line. You can see areas where it wraps around the models and disappears (hair, belly button, where the arm meets the stomach etc.) and those give away the 3D-ness. Manually tracing over the model instead would probably be the quickest way to avoid that, unless you have more options to play with in whichever setting you used to generate the line.

The face still looks 3D, and the more realistic facial features are a little jarring with the stylised body. The eyes are dull and lack the life that you see in a nicely-drawn 2D eye.

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Re: How can I improve this picture ?

#3 Post by Keepal » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:17 pm

Thank you for your reply Selidor,

I can deal with the missing lines, that's not a problem as I already add some of them.

I will try to add some life to the eyes, well seen !

The face will be harder to setup but I can add some lines arround the nose and some light lines too.

To finish I'll try (just try) to re-draw the hair by hand or at least delete all those weird lines and add some volume to the hair.

Well, it seems that I still got some work to do so I don't waste time and I'll start right now !

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Re: How can I improve this picture ?

#4 Post by Per K Grok » Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:38 am

Keepal wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:36 am
---
My question is how can I improve this kind of picture ?
---
Image

A bit of line work can do a lot.
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Donmai
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Re: How can I improve this picture ?

#5 Post by Donmai » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:57 pm

Hi, Keepal. Life is tough for people using 3d software in this forum :lol: .
I second most of Selidor's comments, although I cannot agree with some points. 3D art doesn't necessarily have that ‘creepy’ vibe. Badly done 3D art and badly done hand drawn art really do.
The outline in your render disappear where the arm meets the stomach for a reason: there's a geometry intersection there that needs to be corrected by moving the arm a little (intersection generally happens when you apply a pose created for a different character). I don't know exactly what software you are using, but outlines work as the name suggests: they simply outline the figure, and are not intended to highlight details. That has to be done with postwork when needed. Some surface shaders include an "interior line" option, but I never use it (computers never know when to stop tracing in this case).
The same way, the model's eyes aren't "lifeless" simply because they are 3D rendered. You can make them show accurate highlights by applying a reflective material to the cornea's surfaces.
When starting to use 3D software many people (as it happened to me, too) still don't know that rendering a model is a little more complex than just putting it in the stage, posing it and hitting the render button. Most 3D renders with a "bad vibe" I have seen where created by people who didn't add lights to the scene, didn't activate shadows or didn't adjust the model's surface properties. Rendering using only the camera's automatic headlight, with the model's skin surface set to "plastic" is usually a disaster recipe. I believe you have passed this stage, as your render definitely isn't a disaster :) .
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Re: How can I improve this picture ?

#6 Post by Keepal » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:37 pm

Per K Grok wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 11:38 am
A bit of line work can do a lot.
Yeah I can see that ! You just surrounding my character and that's a totally different image, I like it, thanks !
Donmai wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:57 pm
---
Life is tough for people using 3d software in this forum
---
Well, I guess that there's a huge difference between an hand-drawer and someone like me, who use 3D render and modify it to get 2D drawing and I can understand that but a 5 years old child can draw better than me so ...
Donmai wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:57 pm
---
The outline in your render disappear where the arm meets the stomac
---
Yes, as you said it, that's come from the 3D software (Daz3D), I'll move the arm but not too much, I don't want a huge gap plus I can still draw myself a line to show that there's a separation here, that's not a big deal.
Donmai wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:57 pm
---
The same way, the model's eyes aren't "lifeless" simply because they are 3D rendered.
---
Well, mine got those 'lifeless" eyes but Cyanade (who posted a nice work on the previous wrong thread --> viewtopic.php?f=46&t=51462#p494140) Sleidor and you explain me the exact same thing, eyes need to be "alive", I'll work on that to get some better eyes.
Donmai wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:57 pm
---
I believe you have passed this stage, as your render definitely isn't a disaster
---
I don't really know if I passed this stage but I do take a lot of time by adjusting light, character etc on my scenes and I did a lot of bad render before this one, I guess that "all is in the practice" butI still have a lot to learn" ^^


Thank you all for your advices, I'll definitively use them shortly !

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Re: How can I improve this picture ?

#7 Post by Donmai » Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:55 pm

Life is tough for us in this forum, but we can survive! :lol: I forgot to tell you that all the games I've created so far have 3D generated graphics, and BTW I'm also a DAZ Studio user.
A simple tip: when applying a toon shader to a DAZ character (after selecting all surfaces), go to the surfaces tab and deselect the "cornea" and "tear" surfaces, then apply the shader. This way, the eyes will remain "shiny". Usually, I remove the outlines from the eyelashes and other eye surfaces, teeth, and nostrils. I see no problem if your model's hair has no outlines. I never use outlines in transparency-mapped hair, only in "toony" hair (no transparency maps).
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Re: How can I improve this picture ?

#8 Post by Keepal » Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:42 am

Well, in general, I select skin and apply my personal preset shader, so like that I don't have any texture on the body and it give me a better flat picture on the render (IMO) the cons is that I must redraw some parts like eyebrows, nipples, freckles, etc. I'll do the same for the eyes and just add some light dot to do the reflection and have shiny eyes.

I do the same as you and remove all outline on eyelashes, teeth, etc and I'll try to remove the outlines from the hair or at least redraw only the outlines as Per K Grok did it (I try to redraw all the hair but it was a big fail ...)

I think I'll try all those advices on a new character, like that I'll not be influenced by the pictures modified, hope I'll do it well ...

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