WebStory Engine - A Visual Novel Engine for the Web

For discussion and support of other visual novel engines.
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planktheory
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Re: WebStory Engine - A Visual Novel Engine for the Web

#31 Post by planktheory » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:38 pm

Thank you so much for this engine!

It's exactly what I was looking for in what I wanted with an engine. Especially the distribution method and use of XML. I need to stop lurking around your forum and actually ask questions and join in the fray.

But thank you again for making this, I very much appreciate it.

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Re: WebStory Engine - A Visual Novel Engine for the Web

#32 Post by aeri » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:06 am

I really like the idea of developing at least a short VN on the web just to test the waters without people having to download anything on their computer :) For right now, I'm just tossing an idea back and forth but no current plants to develop one yet...but when and if I do, I'll definitely consider using this after looking through the tutorial ^ ^

Thanks very much for taking your time in developing this wonderful freeware ♪ :D

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Re: WebStory Engine - A Visual Novel Engine for the Web

#33 Post by AxemRed » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:03 am

aeri wrote:...without people having to download anything on their computer...
You don't install anything, but you download the same amount or more.

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Re: WebStory Engine - A Visual Novel Engine for the Web

#34 Post by aeri » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:57 am

AxemRed wrote:
aeri wrote:...without people having to download anything on their computer...
You don't install anything, but you download the same amount or more.
Oops, forgot about that :P thanks ! nonetheless i played a couple of web-based vn but they were short

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Re: WebStory Engine - A Visual Novel Engine for the Web

#35 Post by C7N » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:37 am

@aeri & planktheory:
You're welcome!

@AxemRed:
You are right that there's still something the browser needs to download, of course: images, sounds, the WebStory file, the engine + the libraries. But I wouldn't say that you have more to download than with a desktop app. The thing is: When you download a desktop game with installer and all, dependent on which kind of technology was used to develop the game the package might contain a lot of libraries in case that the computer on which the app will be installed doesn't come with the needed libraries installed and those libraries can be huge. In case of browser-based online games, the "real" application is already on your computer, with all it's needed libraries - the browser that is. The engine itself is huge for a javascript application, but small compared to most desktop software. And you can even minify it and let the server deliver it compressed.

Also, in the engine as it currently is, you only load the images in the game upfront. The sounds / music will - dependent on server settings and browser behaviour - be downloaded just in time or streamed. So in almost all cases, if you play chapter 1 for example and then decide the game isn't for you, all you have downloaded music-wise are the audio tracks used in chapter 1.
WebStory Engine - Visual Novel Engine For The Web:
http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... =4&t=16722

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Re: WebStory Engine - A Visual Novel Engine for the Web

#36 Post by DeeKay » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:54 am

C7N wrote:Also, in the engine as it currently is, you only load the images in the game upfront. The sounds / music will - dependent on server settings and browser behaviour - be downloaded just in time or streamed. So in almost all cases, if you play chapter 1 for example and then decide the game isn't for you, all you have downloaded music-wise are the audio tracks used in chapter 1.
Yeah, that's one of the things that make this engine so sexy ! ;)
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Re: WebStory Engine - A Visual Novel Engine for the Web

#37 Post by AxemRed » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:46 am

C7N wrote:@AxemRed:
You are right that there's still something the browser needs to download, of course: images, sounds, the WebStory file, the engine + the libraries. But I wouldn't say that you have more to download than with a desktop app. The thing is: When you download a desktop game with installer and all, dependent on which kind of technology was used to develop the game the package might contain a lot of libraries in case that the computer on which the app will be installed doesn't come with the needed libraries installed and those libraries can be huge.
For large VNs, Ren'Py can probably win back the 10MB for the engine with JCC and LZMA compression in the installer.

That's not what I was alluding to though. With 'streaming' VN engines, you need to redownload a bunch of resources (images/audio) every time you play. You wouldn't need to redownload everything, but with sprites/music especially there'd be a very large overlap. Of course, if you finish the VN in one sitting this isn't an issue.

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Re: WebStory Engine - A Visual Novel Engine for the Web

#38 Post by C7N » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:25 pm

@AxemRed:
No, your browser does not reload all the images every time, they are cached. If your browser does reload all the images, then you either have disabled your browser cache or your server is badly configured. And at least when the audio does not get streamed, it will also be cached. I'm not quite sure about streamed audio, to be honest, but it seems most browsers cache streamed media as well. It would be kinda insane to download everything over and over again. In fact, some browsers can even be quite annoying when it comes to caching content, e.g. IE is known to cache all AJAX stuff which is why you need to add a random string to the URL if you want to prevent caching.
WebStory Engine - Visual Novel Engine For The Web:
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Re: WebStory Engine - A Visual Novel Engine for the Web

#39 Post by AxemRed » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:46 pm

C7N wrote:@AxemRed:
No, your browser does not reload all the images every time, they are cached. If your browser does reload all the images, then you either have disabled your browser cache or your server is badly configured.
Or you've cycled through your disk cache. The oldest item currently stored in mine is 22 hours old, my cache size is 1GB.

If I wait 22+ hours between sessions, my cache will be empty and images/audio must be redownloaded.

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Re: WebStory Engine - A Visual Novel Engine for the Web

#40 Post by C7N » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:22 pm

@AxemRed:
Good point. If you are really concerned about your user's bandwidth or server traffic, you can probably use the HTML5 app cache though. The app cache is used when online, too, and it's contents will only be re-downloaded when the manifest file changes and the resources mentioned in the manifest have not been changed since the last download.

Here's a guide on Mozilla Developer Network:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/doc ... tion_cache

And here's a list of interesting facts about the app cache:
http://appcachefacts.info/

Maybe I should write a script that generates a manifest file automatically from WebStory files. I will consider it for upcoming versions. Thanks for pointing out this issue, AxemRed.
WebStory Engine - Visual Novel Engine For The Web:
http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... =4&t=16722

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Re: WebStory Engine - A Visual Novel Engine for the Web

#41 Post by planktheory » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:44 am

Oh hey, I just realized you already have LiveComposite built into your engine.

Sudden moment of clarity, when I realized why I didn't try means to conserve the number of assets necessary for my project. Then I realized that since it uses levels, and they're the equivalent of layers in Photoshop... Iterations of a hundred+ files went down by a significant margin.

So next order of business is to kick myself. Repeatedly.

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Re: WebStory Engine - A Visual Novel Engine for the Web

#42 Post by C7N » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:38 am

@planktheory:
I don't really understand what you mean, can you explain? What do you want to accomplish? If you like to have a "layer" asset where you can move multiple ImagePacks, Curtains etc. at once, I could write an extension for that in the next couple of days. Wanted to do that anyway.
WebStory Engine - Visual Novel Engine For The Web:
http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... =4&t=16722

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Re: WebStory Engine - A Visual Novel Engine for the Web

#43 Post by planktheory » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:07 am

Sorry, apparently my language skills fail late at night.

I meant that it's possible to arrange things in such a way that it would be comparable to the LiveComposite feature in RenPy. Using the image pack z-depth placed over the same x-y coordinates. Let's say one for facial expressions and another for body language.

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Re: WebStory Engine - A Visual Novel Engine for the Web

#44 Post by Morishita » Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:57 am

This looks really amazing! I think I'll see if I can upload the demo of my visual novel, Curse of the Caribbean, and post it on my site so people can test out the demo before downloading the full first chapter. Once I get the layout finished for S.K.Y. Art and Designs webpage done then I'll start looking further into this engine. Thank you for putting in so much time and effort into making this =D
On a side not that little hair ball mc doesn't seem like a morning person. I didn't think his name sounded fun but he got mad and insulted me when I told him my name =.= He must be punished~
( > 3 >)~ I joke, I joke. He's probably just naturally grumpy.

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Re: WebStory Engine - A Visual Novel Engine for the Web

#45 Post by C7N » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:53 pm

@planktheory:
Ah, thanks, I guess I understand. I didn't really test this functionality all that much, but good to know that it works. But I still plan on writing a meta-layer asset like described above. It would make it easier to apply movement and effects to different assets at once, which in turn would make animation with them probably less verbose. :3

@Morishita:
Thank you! Your game looks pretty promising, I should definitely play it when I have the time. I look forward to seeing how your adaption to the WebStory Engine will look like!

And yes, he's just grumpy, don't mind him. :D Actually, there is a really nice character sprite for the assistant Lia as well, but I didn't have the time yet to include her in the novel. (The artist is starting to get mad at me. ;))
WebStory Engine - Visual Novel Engine For The Web:
http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... =4&t=16722

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