Suggestions for recruiters

For recruitment of team members to help create visual novels and story-based games, and for people who want to offer their services to create the same.
Message
Author
MarkSA
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:50 pm
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Suggestions for recruiters

#16 Post by MarkSA » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:40 pm

I agree with the above comments.Recruiters also need to keep to their word, when they say they are going to. A common problem I find with people is they are not reliable.

User avatar
ShotgunNinja
Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:42 am
Projects: Con'Ai
Organization: Ninja's Ramblings
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Contact:

Re: Suggestions for recruiters

#17 Post by ShotgunNinja » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:35 pm

Auro-Cyanide wrote:I second everything in this thread.

- You don't NEED an artist, you WANT an artist.
- I second the 'Show Your Work' stance. (AKA: Show what you have done before asking what they can do, AKA: "I'll show you mine, now you show me yours," from the recruiter's perspective)
- Don't limit yourself to this forum.
1) Look for people [who] have done long term projects.
2) Look for people [who] do similar things to what you want to do.
3) Explain the work load to [potential artists] in realistic terms.
- I also second the 'Your Idea Has No Value' stance. (AKA: Ideas are cheap, but products are valuable.)
- Pitch it (seconded).
- Find people who suit you.
- You. Can. Not. Be. In. Control.
This is going into my personal notebook of game development advice, with the bulk of supporting arguments omitted for clarity. I definitely could change some things about my own recruitment postings...

dongaro
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Suggestions for recruiters

#18 Post by dongaro » Sat May 05, 2012 11:34 am

Interesting. I think I learned quite a bit. Some of it seems common sense but then again maybe not. I especially enjoyed the mini lecture (as a university student lectures are good not bad) on artists and how things work. The contract portion was especially interesting as was how royalties do and do not work (I'd always wondered about that) . Thanks for all the advice and details, hopefully this helps me avoid some problems down the line in a few months when I start trying to pitch my idea (I'm aiming for my script mostly done by that point to avoid having an 'idea' ). I'm really glad this was stickied at the top of the page.

User avatar
Freyas_Aett
Newbie
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat May 05, 2012 8:34 am
Projects: Jack Flint
Organization: Freya's Aett
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Suggestions for recruiters

#19 Post by Freyas_Aett » Sat May 05, 2012 1:59 pm

I'd say that there is a role for the designer and/or producer, maybe, but only if people actually realise what that entails.

Designer is not a full-time role any more. A few of the larger studios might have a small team of designers with loads of other developers, but the newer agile studios just can't justify paying someone for such a limited skill-set. Generally, design is a pre-production job and so most designers have another role during the development phase. The most common are scripting and level design; well, scripting means python (so writing everything but the dialogue) and level design doesn't really apply to Visual Novels. Lead designers tend to find themselves doing production, but I'll come back to that.

Okay, so you have no art or Python skills and want to be a designer. Fine. In the real world, a designer is a writer of endless documents. As long as you can use a word-processor and write in full sentences, you should have all the skills you need. First, you need to write a very short pitch explaining why the game will be awesome, then you write a bigger pitch explaining why people should want to get involved, then a longer one explaining what the final game will be like. At this point, people should have told you they like your idea.

Trouble is that ideas are worthless, so you now have to write a design document, a small tome which explains everything. If you want stats, you have to write down every stat, how to gain points, how to lose points, what values make what things happen. If you want characters, you have to write down a list of who they are and how they interact, who hates whom, whose family murdered whose parents eight generations ago, etc. If you think any of this is the writer's job, you are probably surplus to requirements and can be replaced by a small shell-script...

If you get this far, you are probably ready to recruit a team. You are also going to be twiddling your thumbs while everyone else works, unless you are writing the script or making art.

In essence, the designer is responsible for writing three sets of documents (one for the artist, one for coder / scripter, one for the writer) which explain what they need to do in such detail that any other team could be handed the same document and make an identical game with only the most insignificant of differences. If you think you can plot out the entire game in a flow-chart and make a spreadsheet of all stat-changes so you can track the possible outcomes of the game, maybe you could be a designer.

So, how about producers?

Well, I'd say that there is a place for a producer, even in an unpaid game, but it's hard work and might not be appreciated. Producers are the ones who make sure that things happen. They facilitate, working out what each person needs to do their job and making sure they get it. They make sure the game is on schedule and chase people who drop out of contact, replacing them if necessary. If you have a producer on-staff, you might actually be able to set a release date that is further than a week away and the developers should be able to get on with their part of the job because they are confident that the producer knows what they need, they know when to expect these things and they know how long they have to finish their current task.

Of course, a producer should really be brought in. There's a strong need for a producer (given that they help avoid some of the main reasons for indie teams failing), but there's really no point in building a team around a producer.

User avatar
Desu_Cake
Veteran
Posts: 300
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:03 pm
Projects: Secret, Secret and Secret
Location: Ireland
Contact:

Re: Suggestions for recruiters

#20 Post by Desu_Cake » Sun May 06, 2012 5:14 pm

One more thing that ought to be common sense, but...
Show the people you're trying to recruit what you can do. Don't say "I can do the writing," show them that you can do the writing. No-one will hire someone with no portfolio, so why do you expect someone to work for you if you have none.

User avatar
Rosstin
Veteran
Posts: 368
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:43 pm
Completed: Rex Rocket, Kitty Love, King's Ascent
Projects: Road Redemption, Queen At Arms
Organization: Aqualuft Games
Contact:

Re: Suggestions for recruiters

#21 Post by Rosstin » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:05 am

Excellent suggestions, not just for visual novel recruitment, but for any gamedev recruitment. If you can't do any of the work yourself, no one will respect you to lead the team.
Image

User avatar
Taleweaver
Writing Maniac
Posts: 3369
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:51 am
Completed: Metropolitan Blues, The Loyal Kinsman, Daemonophilia, The Dreaming, The Thirteenth Year, Adrift, Bionic Heart 2, Secrets of the Wolf, The Photographer
Projects: The Pilgrim's Path, Elspeth's Garden, Secret Adventure Game!
Organization: Tall Tales Productions
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Suggestions for recruiters

#22 Post by Taleweaver » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:07 am

One last thing: When creating a thread, give it a topic that tells people what you offer or what you need. Topics like "Help!" are very unhelpful, stuff like "If you are interested..." probably won't raise much interest. Try to mention at least:

a) if you NEED something or OFFER something
b) WHAT you need/offer

Spares me the work of editing your posts.
Scriptwriter and producer of Metropolitan Blues
Creator of The Loyal Kinsman
Scriptwriter and director of Daemonophilia
Scriptwriter and director of The Dreaming
Scriptwriter of Zenith Chronicles
Scriptwriter and director of The Thirteenth Year
Scriptwriter and director of Romance is Dead
Scriptwriter and producer of Adrift
More about me in my blog
"Adrift - Like Ever17, but without the Deus Ex Machina" - HigurashiKira

User avatar
Razz
Veteran
Posts: 345
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:15 pm
Completed: Starlight Vega, Catch Canvas, Love Ribbon, Happy Campers
Projects: Two projects
Organization: Razzartvisual
Contact:

Re: Suggestions for recruiters

#23 Post by Razz » Sat Sep 22, 2012 2:17 pm

As an artist this is what turns me away from writers posts:

1. Sorry, but if I see spelling errors right in the opening pitch I really can't imagine the script being much better.
2. Unrealistic expectations. This has more to do with the writer having a good grasp on the reality of free artists work rather than what I personally think is an unrealistic workload. It also includes having realistic expectations for themselves.
3. Bad talking previous artist who left. The only thing I think is 'maybe they left for a reason...'.


And not aimed at writers but more at those who come in with a giant 'wanted' list of people, but can't write, code, or do art themselves. It's like...if you could be cut out of the project with no differences you might want to bring something to the table besides an idea. >_> I'd say this is excused with money but I rarely ever see it offered in this case.
Image

CheeryMoya
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 892
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:09 am

Re: Suggestions for recruiters

#24 Post by CheeryMoya » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:03 pm

Can I also add that a recruiter should not PM random people out of the blue to ask them to help on the recruiter's project? It's like walking up to someone and asking them to cook dinner for you or something, whatever. Chances are that the person who was PM'd is quite busy already, can't help you on your project, has no interest in your project, etc. Recruit people who say they are available, or create a thread offering a position in your team.

User avatar
Taleweaver
Writing Maniac
Posts: 3369
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:51 am
Completed: Metropolitan Blues, The Loyal Kinsman, Daemonophilia, The Dreaming, The Thirteenth Year, Adrift, Bionic Heart 2, Secrets of the Wolf, The Photographer
Projects: The Pilgrim's Path, Elspeth's Garden, Secret Adventure Game!
Organization: Tall Tales Productions
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Suggestions for recruiters

#25 Post by Taleweaver » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:18 pm

CheeryMoya wrote:Can I also add that a recruiter should not PM random people out of the blue to ask them to help on the recruiter's project? It's like walking up to someone and asking them to cook dinner for you or something, whatever. Chances are that the person who was PM'd is quite busy already, can't help you on your project, has no interest in your project, etc. Recruit people who say they are available, or create a thread offering a position in your team.
I disagree. If you feel someone's the perfect person to work on your team, why not just ask? Politely declining a request isn't much work.
Scriptwriter and producer of Metropolitan Blues
Creator of The Loyal Kinsman
Scriptwriter and director of Daemonophilia
Scriptwriter and director of The Dreaming
Scriptwriter of Zenith Chronicles
Scriptwriter and director of The Thirteenth Year
Scriptwriter and director of Romance is Dead
Scriptwriter and producer of Adrift
More about me in my blog
"Adrift - Like Ever17, but without the Deus Ex Machina" - HigurashiKira

User avatar
jghibiki
Regular
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:08 pm
Projects: Dream's Dénouement, Unannounced RPG framework, Renpy-Safe Logger
Organization: Team Anarky
IRC Nick: jghibiki
Location: Minnesota, US
Contact:

Re: Suggestions for recruiters

#26 Post by jghibiki » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:33 pm

Taleweaver wrote:
CheeryMoya wrote:Can I also add that a recruiter should not PM random people out of the blue to ask them to help on the recruiter's project? It's like walking up to someone and asking them to cook dinner for you or something, whatever. Chances are that the person who was PM'd is quite busy already, can't help you on your project, has no interest in your project, etc. Recruit people who say they are available, or create a thread offering a position in your team.
I disagree. If you feel someone's the perfect person to work on your team, why not just ask? Politely declining a request isn't much work.
That might be a valid case as long as the person requesting isn't a lurker or a newbie like me :) otherwise it might seem like cannon fodder to some people.

User avatar
LVUER
King of Lolies
Posts: 4535
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 9:57 pm
Completed: R.S.P
Location: Bandung, West Java, Indonesia
Contact:

Re: Suggestions for recruiters

#27 Post by LVUER » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:34 pm

CheeryMoya wrote:Can I also add that a recruiter should not PM random people out of the blue to ask them to help on the recruiter's project? It's like walking up to someone and asking them to cook dinner for you or something, whatever. Chances are that the person who was PM'd is quite busy already, can't help you on your project, has no interest in your project, etc. Recruit people who say they are available, or create a thread offering a position in your team.
I also disagree. Rather than a person who suddenly knocks at your door asking you to cook dinner for him, IMO it's more like a person who comes to your desk and ask if you can cook dinner together with him (and you're both are chefs).

If you open a recruitment thread, it's like opening a job vacancy ads. That if you still don't know what kind of person you need or you simply want to take anyone capable. But how if you already know exactly who you're looking for? You might as well approach that person directly and ask. This is pretty common in business when we're talking about rare talents (you know, the head hunters?).

In fact, I've been involved in several projects by people asking me via PM. Some are unsuccessful (but that is common in free projects) but there are some successful projects too. I don't know for other people, but I feel happier when there are people asked for my help directly via PM since that means they want MY skills (and specifically MINE).
"Double the princesses, quadruple the fun!" - Haken Browning (SRW-OG Endless Frontier)

DeviantArt Account
MoeToMecha Blog (under construction)
Lolicondria Blog (under construction) <- NSFW

User avatar
redeyesblackpanda
Eileen-Class Veteran
Posts: 1006
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:26 am
Projects: Eternal Memories, plot bunnies that won't die.
Organization: HellPanda Studios
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Suggestions for recruiters

#28 Post by redeyesblackpanda » Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:38 pm

CheeryMoya wrote:Can I also add that a recruiter should not PM random people out of the blue to ask them to help on the recruiter's project? It's like walking up to someone and asking them to cook dinner for you or something, whatever. Chances are that the person who was PM'd is quite busy already, can't help you on your project, has no interest in your project, etc. Recruit people who say they are available, or create a thread offering a position in your team.
I'm also going to disagree with this. Execution matters of course. It's important not to come off as rude or annoying, or course, but asking politely is in a way, a compliment in itself. The recruiter shouldn't demand that someone work with them, but saying something to the effect of "I like your work, and would be interested in working with you if you'd be interested in working with me" (with specific details too, of course) should be fine. I'm too busy to work on other projects at the moment, but I'd probably appreciate being asked, since it'd say something nice about my writing. (If someone kept pestering me, or something, then I'd get annoyed though. It's important for people to remember that "no" means "no," and it's also important to make the "no" as clear as possible, if you're rejecting an offer.)
(All projects currently on a hiatus of sorts. I blame life.)
Tsundere VN
Not really checking the forums any more due to time constraints, so if you want to contact me, PM. I'll get a notification and log in. :mrgreen:
Also, I've been hit and run posting, which means I don't see many replies. If you want to respond to something I've said, also feel free to PM me.

NOTE: if you've got questions about vnovel or things like that, it's Leon that you should be contacting. Leon's been pretty much handling everything, but due to various reasons, I've had to withdraw entirely.

CheeryMoya
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 892
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:09 am

Re: Suggestions for recruiters

#29 Post by CheeryMoya » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:32 pm

Didn't think my post would spark up so much talk >_>

Well, if you're going to ask someone to work with you directly via PM (for free, if that wasn't already a given considering that most projects here are of the noncommercial/unpaid variety), you should at least know who you're talking to and hope that they know a bit about you too. Know what that other person's interest is, how many projects they're doing already, if you think they'd like what you have to show, etc. All the times heard about any random PMs out of the blue have been met with incredulity, as in "is that person really serious? That person wants me to work on that project? ... How do I refuse..." That's obviously not a good thing.

So if you're going to PM someone, at least entice them with something they like doing and have a good reputation.

User avatar
Deji
Cheer Idol; Not Great at Secret Identities
Posts: 1592
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:38 pm
Projects: http://bit.ly/2lieZsA
Organization: Sakevisual, Apple Cider, Mystery Parfait
Tumblr: DejiNyucu
Deviantart: DejiNyucu
Location: Chile
Contact:

Re: Suggestions for recruiters

#30 Post by Deji » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:18 pm

CheeryMoya wrote:All the times heard about any random PMs out of the blue have been met with incredulity, as in "is that person really serious? That person wants me to work on that project? ... How do I refuse..." That's obviously not a good thing.
To refuse asks for help/collaborations, the best thing is to be honest and polite (:

If your reason to not work with them is because you're too busy, you say so. If you don't do work for free, you say so, there's nothing wrong with that! ;)
If your reason is the theme of the project, you have all the right to refuse based on your personal preferences, but if your concern is the length/planning/etc, you may express your concern about it and provide feedback and helpful tips for them to work on before approaching somebody.

Now... if you just don't want to work with the person... well, you may want to tell them you feel you won't be a good team and you apologize and suggest they'd be better off with somebody else?

Again, being honest is the best, imo; sometimes even a small white lie could work, if you don't want to hurt their feelings. In my opinion, honesty and politeness will keep you in good relations with colleagues and potential partners and clients.
If you're harsh, rude or a jerk with people approaching you, even with unreasonable requests, may be a hindrance in the future, because they could tell potential future clients or they themselves may become potential clients in the future! On the other hand, if you're polite, they'll come back to you when thy can meet your requirements and recommend you to other people (:
Image
Tumblr | Twitter
Forever busy :')
When drawing something, anything, USE REFERENCES!! Use your Google-fu!
Don't trust your memory, and don't blindly trust what others teach you either.
Research, observation, analysis, experimentation and practice are the key! (:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users