Requirements for Recruitment threads (RULES)

For recruitment of team members to help create visual novels and story-based games, and for people who want to offer their services to create the same.
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Taleweaver
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Requirements for Recruitment threads (RULES)

#1 Post by Taleweaver » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:57 am

As we would like our recruitment forum to become a more useful tool for both recruiters and people offering services, and in order to make recruitment threads clearer, we have decided upon the following guidelines for all postings in this forum that aim at recruiting people. Note that these rules do not apply to offering services.

All threads in which someone is looking for people to join a team, from now on, are required to contain all of the following three pieces of information:
  • 1) An overview of the project, or a link to an overview. Recruitment threads that are not created for a specific project but generally for a company or organization of sorts ("headhunting threads") will no longer be allowed in this forum.

    2) A description of what sort of work needs to be done, for example "Need a character artist" or "Need a script writer". For commissions, we strongly suggest giving an estimate of how much of that work will be necessary. (Examples: "Four character sprites in 4-5 poses each" or "A dialogue script of approximately 60,000 words")

    3) A description of what work has been completed on the project, if any.
Threads must be opened in the correct sections:
  • "We are a Free Project looking for Partners" if your project is strictly non-commercial and contributors cannot expect any sort of financial compensation
  • "We are a Commercial Project looking for Partners" if you are planning to sell the results of your projects afterwards and contributors will receive a share of the revenue
  • "We are offering Paid Work" if, no matter whether your project is commercial or not, you are willing to offer people money in exchange for working for you and the exact sum of money will be decided before they start working.
Recruitment threads may contain any other project details the poster is willing to share as long as these four pieces of information are included.

Also, effective today, there will be a new general rule of conduct for the entire LSF, which is thus relevant for the Recruitment section. This rule is:

14.) Public Discussion.
The Lemma Soft Forums are meant for public discussion. Threads that direct replies to PMs or Email may be deleted.
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Re: Requirements for Recruitment threads (RULES)

#2 Post by KomiTsuku » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:54 pm

Retracted complaint after talking with admin

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Re: Requirements for Recruitment threads (RULES)

#3 Post by Greeny » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:24 pm

I am feeling rather iffy about these new restrictions. Are they really necessary? I mean, as in, really?

Like, how does forbidding 'headhunting threads' make this subforum
a more useful tool for both recruiters and people offering services
?

I have no doubt that you mean well, but at some point you gotta ask yourself, "is it worth it?"
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Re: Requirements for Recruitment threads (RULES)

#4 Post by Reikun » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:37 pm

KomiTsuku wrote:I have to disagree with several of these new rules.

#1/#3- If I am recruiting for a specific job in a visual novel, such as I need ten backgrounds for an undisclosed project, then I'm not going to have anything to point them at in terms of a project. I'm not drafting a new team member for the development, I'm hiring a freelancer for a very specific job with very specific request. #1 and #3 are incredibly irrelevant in most of my case. However, #2 takes the role much better. If I give my usual recruitment post with details into what I need, which is very standardized and formatted, I shouldn't have to disclose anything other than that.
Maybe those two points can be limited to unpaid positions and/or people with no previous releases? The danger here for people offering their services is if someone without a track record (e.g. someone new to the community) claims to be commissioning for an undisclosed project and then disappears after someone has wasted their time/effort for the phantom project.
KomiTsuku wrote:#14- I've got two major problems with this one.

1. Studio business is not public discussion. When I post up a job offer, I don't mind answering questions and what not over the thread. That stuff will help potential applicants decide if they are interested or not. However, I would rather them direct any offers to me directly via PM so we can talk, which is why I always add into my threads to let me know via PM. It's easier and convenient for me than to have them just send it to me directly than start the relay system. Also, if a big name artist comments they are interested, it may scare away some newer artists who might be the person I'm looking for.

2. There have been points when topics get overheated and should be taken out of public view by suggesting that they talk about this privately. That rule, as it reads, would potentially ban that firebreak.
1. I agree with this point to an extent. It's better to talk commission details privately but at the same time the forum medium with reply buttons on every thread won't stop anyone from expressing interest as an in-thread reply. I'd think most professional/semi-pro artists would PM regardless.

2. A topic getting overheated and taken to PMs is more likely people getting too deep into personal opinion/derailing the thread. For these situations the thread is not directing replies to private communications, imo. More specific language for Rule 14 would be good though.

Thank you for making these points from a commissioner's perspective. I hadn't considered much of this.
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Re: Requirements for Recruitment threads (RULES)

#5 Post by CheeryMoya » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:55 am

Index page description wrote:For searching for team members or advertising your interest in joining a team.
Taleweaver wrote:1) An overview of the project, or a link to an overview. Recruitment threads that are not created for a specific project but generally for a company or organization of sorts ("headhunting threads") will no longer be allowed in this forum.
?

I have a vague idea of why this rule was introduced for the people looking for skills, but this means that people offering their skills can still ask to join a team, right? Either way you'll need to tweak the board description for the Recruitment area now.

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Re: Requirements for Recruitment threads (RULES)

#6 Post by Taleweaver » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:22 am

CheeryMoya wrote:I have a vague idea of why this rule was introduced for the people looking for skills, but this means that people offering their skills can still ask to join a team, right? Either way you'll need to tweak the board description for the Recruitment area now.
Taleweaver wrote:Note that these rules do not apply to offering services.
Does that answer your question?
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Re: Requirements for Recruitment threads (RULES)

#7 Post by Taleweaver » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:41 am

Greeny wrote:I am feeling rather iffy about these new restrictions. Are they really necessary? I mean, as in, really?

Like, how does forbidding 'headhunting threads' make this subforum
a more useful tool for both recruiters and people offering services
?

I have no doubt that you mean well, but at some point you gotta ask yourself, "is it worth it?"
It is.
What we would like to get rid of is threads like this:

"Studio XY is looking for background artists. If you're interested, apply via example@mail.com."

This has happened several times before, and in quite a few cases it has been a new member's first and last posting on these forums. That's nothing but classic headhunting - mentioning any sort of unspecified job opportunity in as many different places as possible, collect e-mails and portfolios and then later sell these to either advertising agencies for personalized marketing purposes or, in rare cases, use them to build a database of people with specific skills for services brokerage.

The purpose of this forum is the creation and discussion of visual novels and story-based games. It's not headhunting for people with creative and artistic skills. Our forums ARE, however, a place for people with such skills to put them on display. And if someone finds you and recruits you for something else than a VN, everything's A-OK. Even if you do all the negotiations through e-mail and PM.
Scriptwriter and producer of Metropolitan Blues
Creator of The Loyal Kinsman
Scriptwriter and director of Daemonophilia
Scriptwriter and director of The Dreaming
Scriptwriter of Zenith Chronicles
Scriptwriter and director of The Thirteenth Year
Scriptwriter and director of Romance is Dead
Scriptwriter and producer of Adrift
More about me in my blog
"Adrift - Like Ever17, but without the Deus Ex Machina" - HigurashiKira

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Re: Requirements for Recruitment threads (RULES)

#8 Post by CheeryMoya » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:02 pm

Taleweaver wrote:
CheeryMoya wrote:I have a vague idea of why this rule was introduced for the people looking for skills, but this means that people offering their skills can still ask to join a team, right? Either way you'll need to tweak the board description for the Recruitment area now.
Taleweaver wrote:Note that these rules do not apply to offering services.
Does that answer your question?
The board description says "For searching for team members" and some people might interpret that to mean what you call "headhunting." Thus the description needs to be edited.

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Re: Requirements for Recruitment threads (RULES)

#9 Post by Taleweaver » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:30 am

CheeryMoya wrote:The board description says "For searching for team members" and some people might interpret that to mean what you call "headhunting." Thus the description needs to be edited.
I see your point.

The descriptions of the boards mostly come from a time when we understood "team" as "ragtag band of creative people coming together to create one freeware VN, and if that works out, maybe more" and less as "everybody employed in the same company".

We may need to overthink the board descriptions, yes.
Scriptwriter and producer of Metropolitan Blues
Creator of The Loyal Kinsman
Scriptwriter and director of Daemonophilia
Scriptwriter and director of The Dreaming
Scriptwriter of Zenith Chronicles
Scriptwriter and director of The Thirteenth Year
Scriptwriter and director of Romance is Dead
Scriptwriter and producer of Adrift
More about me in my blog
"Adrift - Like Ever17, but without the Deus Ex Machina" - HigurashiKira

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Re: Requirements for Recruitment threads (RULES)

#10 Post by Exaelia » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:30 am

I only have one question that I'm a bit confused on. I want to put myself out there, so that people know that I'm here. But is that 'headhunting'? I don't really understand. But I also hope that the really talented sprite makers would also contact me so I could learn from them.
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Re: Requirements for Recruitment threads (RULES)

#11 Post by Taleweaver » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:23 am

"Headhunting" in this context refers to business professionals looking for people with certain skills for the sake of information-gathering. There is no actual job or position to be filled right now, the headhunters are either

a) working for a company that employs freelance artists from time to time or
b) working for a recruitment agency and are seeking to broaden their "portfolio" of possible employees to recommend to their customers.

In both cases, there is little chance that the skills wanted are actually needed for the production of a visual novel, and if people refuse to talk about the project at hand, there's a good chance there is no project at hand, and people responding to headhunting requests may give away their e-mail address, real-life name and maybe other personal data to people who make a living from selling such data. Thus the requirements for recruitment threads.

If you want to advertise your skills, that's perfectly legit on this forum :)
Scriptwriter and producer of Metropolitan Blues
Creator of The Loyal Kinsman
Scriptwriter and director of Daemonophilia
Scriptwriter and director of The Dreaming
Scriptwriter of Zenith Chronicles
Scriptwriter and director of The Thirteenth Year
Scriptwriter and director of Romance is Dead
Scriptwriter and producer of Adrift
More about me in my blog
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Re: Requirements for Recruitment threads (RULES)

#12 Post by Exaelia » Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:37 am

Taleweaver wrote:"Headhunting" in this context refers to business professionals looking for people with certain skills for the sake of information-gathering. There is no actual job or position to be filled right now, the headhunters are either

a) working for a company that employs freelance artists from time to time or
b) working for a recruitment agency and are seeking to broaden their "portfolio" of possible employees to recommend to their customers.

In both cases, there is little chance that the skills wanted are actually needed for the production of a visual novel, and if people refuse to talk about the project at hand, there's a good chance there is no project at hand, and people responding to headhunting requests may give away their e-mail address, real-life name and maybe other personal data to people who make a living from selling such data. Thus the requirements for recruitment threads.

If you want to advertise your skills, that's perfectly legit on this forum :)
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Re: Requirements for Recruitment threads (RULES)

#13 Post by Taleweaver » Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:44 am

Short version: If you just want to put yourself and your skills on display, there's nothing to stop you from it. And if you want help improving yourself, just contact the artists you like and ask nicely. It's all allowed!
Scriptwriter and producer of Metropolitan Blues
Creator of The Loyal Kinsman
Scriptwriter and director of Daemonophilia
Scriptwriter and director of The Dreaming
Scriptwriter of Zenith Chronicles
Scriptwriter and director of The Thirteenth Year
Scriptwriter and director of Romance is Dead
Scriptwriter and producer of Adrift
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Re: Requirements for Recruitment threads (RULES)

#14 Post by Exaelia » Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:15 pm

Taleweaver wrote:Short version: If you just want to put yourself and your skills on display, there's nothing to stop you from it. And if you want help improving yourself, just contact the artists you like and ask nicely. It's all allowed!

Thank you x.x
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Re: Recruiting artist and programmers

#15 Post by Sorakun » Wed Nov 06, 2013 5:26 am

Taleweaver wrote:Sorry, general "I am recruiting for nothing specific in particular" requests are not allowed in this forum. Please refer to our recruitment rules.

If you have one specific project in mind, put the details here (as outlined in the rules), and this thread can stay open.
You guys should really add a forum for this o.o so that newbies can start projects together without actually having to know specifics, just saying, it would make things a lot easier

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