VNs slowly gaining Western popularity?

[Blane Doyle]

Does anyone else believe that the genre is, however slowly, starting to gain more popularity in the West?

Corpse Party has topped the PSP PSN download sales since the end of November, when it was released, and despite coming out in the later weeks it hot the top very quickly. It has remained there for almost 3 months.

Katawa Shoujo quickly became one of most popular and requested games on FAQs within a few days of release.

Games like 9 Hours 9 Persons 9 Doors have proven to be breakout hits with critics in the West for the stories more than their gameplay elements.

More games without erotic content have been licensed through companies like MangaGamer for the PC, and more console VNs are slowly being talked about and brought over, like the first Hakuoki (Hakuouki?) game.

While I do not think it is nearly as popular as it is in Japan (not by a long shot), with everything I have seen in the past couple of years, and even the past 6 months, it does seem like it is getting more recognition as a genre instead of just "those dating sims you play on the computer" now.

[Taleweaver]

So far, it's still a few singular cases of VNs that attracted a wider popularity. I don't think we can speak of a trend already. But anyway, it could mean more attention for us. And that's a good thing.

[sciencewarrior]

I think traditional gamers have warmed up to indie games in recent years, after successes like World of Goo and Braid; and casual gamers are playing more, probably due to the influence of Facebook and iPhone games. People are also less reluctant to buy digital goods. This makes it a bit easier to distribute niche games. On the other hand, the expected quality is rising and the expected price falling.

EDIT: And we may still see some long-term effect from Katawa Shoujo. It's still early to say.

[DaFool]

Not really compared to the big picture. You could also be saying that point and click adventure games are making a comeback.

I think it's just that with the indie and digital revolution, all genres of games -- whether previously neglected or not -- are given the freedom to expand to their saturation volume. Then there are breakout hits within each genre and could come to represent that genre.

[gekiganwing]

Overall, I'd say that a few small press / indie visual novels are getting English fanbases and respect. Both western VNs and translated VNs are still a small category of media, and they have been mostly regarded as a poor man's hybrid of anime/manga and video games.

I don't expect the fandom will ever be large, and I don't expect more than a few VNs will get good sales numbers. But we have come a long way in the last decade. Yeah, I remember being a newbie back in late 2001, and having trouble locating *anything* in English other than poorly written/translated harem stories.

JAST's version of Aselia the Eternal got decent reviews on RPGFan and RPGamer. I'm not sure how many people other than me bought it, but I'm glad that JAST finally released a worksafe product.

Aksys Games has been tracking the reviews of Hakuouki. While there's been some visual novels on consoles in English over the last few years, this one stands out by being 1) a romance game, 2) a full retail game, and 3) a straightforward visual novel with no added gameplay elements. Hopefully more than a handful of people will buy it...

...because not many people purchased Sakura Wars: So Long My Love back in 2010. It had a decent ad campaign, got a fair number of positive reviews, and was available on PS2 and Wii, but I guess its audience was small or disinterested.

You could also be saying that point and click adventure games are making a comeback.

Wikipedia's article on graphic adventure games talks about a time in the late 90s when the genre seemed to be dying. Since then, it seems that a few small companies and hobbyists have been slowly reviving the genre.

[Blane Doyle]

I agree with the basic sentiment, that overall on a wide spectrum it is not much of a change.

But I do believe that on a small scale we are seeing a slight change, and in the end I think this is at the very least a good stepping point for the genre. I don't think that we're OMG SO POPULAR, no no no, just getting a bit more recognition.

gekiganwing, I hope it sells well too! CP may be a great show that people will buy something like a Visual Novel now a days, but with the gameplay it has the sales it returns doesn't show much toward traditional VNs. Thanks for the link toward the reviews by the way! I also agree that I don't think we will ever have a wide spread dom or audience, but it is nice to hope since the quality is improving both in translations AND in OELVN.

[Auro-Cyanide]

Do you know what is kind of funny? Visual Novels are trying to gain recognition as games. Games are trying to gain recognition as an art form. It's like the pyramid of needs.
Though given visual novels close ties to literacy, maybe we are a lot closer to art than regular games are?

On topic, it's possible. I think there are many things that are going to have to be done for VNs to be more excepted in the west (like tossing quite a few japanese tropes *cough*) and adding and creatively implimenting interactivity, but it's definitely possible. Especially with the raise of popularity of tablets and other hand held devices. People are going to need something to do with those since they appar to be surgically attached.

[Gavrilo]

Do you know what is kind of funny? Visual Novels are trying to gain recognition as games. Games are trying to gain recognition as an art form. It's like the pyramid of needs.
Though given visual novels close ties to literacy, maybe we are a lot closer to art than regular games are?

That's very interesting, and I catch myself thinking about it sometimes. The thing is... hardly anyone recognize successful titles such as Ace Attorney and 999 as visual novels. Adventure games at most. Heck, BlazBlue had a very VN-style story mode, yet people will likely say "Oh, it has decent/good storytelling for a fighting game", not "It's a decent/good story with good fighting mechanics". You might add the investigative interaction, which Ace Attorney and 999 have, to your novel, but the point is that people still won't see it as visual novel. There is a nice discussion here about what a truly mainstream novel would look like. But then comes the question: should them market readers or gamers?

Of course, Katawa Shoujo was the exception of the exception. As sciencewarrior pointed, it may have some interesting long-term effects.

[Auro-Cyanide]

Do you know what is kind of funny? Visual Novels are trying to gain recognition as games. Games are trying to gain recognition as an art form. It's like the pyramid of needs.
Though given visual novels close ties to literacy, maybe we are a lot closer to art than regular games are?

That's very interesting, and I catch myself thinking about it sometimes. The thing is... hardly anyone recognize successful titles such as Ace Attorney and 999 as visual novels. Adventure games at most. Heck, BlazBlue had a very VN-style story mode, yet people will likely say "Oh, it has decent/good storytelling for a fighting game", not "It's a decent/good story with good fighting mechanics". You might add the investigative interaction, which Ace Attorney and 999 have, to your novel, but the point is that people still won't see it as visual novel. There is a nice discussion here about what a truly mainstream novel would look like. But then comes the question: should them market readers or gamers?

Of course, Katawa Shoujo was the exception of the exception. As sciencewarrior pointed, it may have some interesting long-term effects.

That probably has a lot more to do with people not knowing what a visual novel is in the first place. Ace Attorney, 999, Professor Layton, even The World Ends with You have very strong visual novel elements mixed with gameplay elements. But unless you are in the know, you wouldn't know. And at the end of the day it doesn't really matter. The audience certainly doesn't care.

I think there are two separate markets to VN, and they will be readers and gamers. They are different and will want different things and that's fine. There is no reason you can't market towards both. I wouldn't try selling a pure VN to a gamer though, they are going to need puzzles or some level of interaction. Anyone who is into RPGs will be used to a lot of reading, but they will want to feel they are interacting, not just turning pages. Pure VNs will be better of targeted at people you like comics, manga and in some cases books. With the book audience ties with manga/anime would have to be cut. The stories would have to be more varied as well as the art styles.

I was actually expecting Katawa Shojo to have more of an impact. It has to some extent, but overall not what I was expecting. I think that that comes down to the fact they weren't doing anything new. JVNs haven't had much success in the west because they don't really reflect or connect with the western audience. Their main audience in the west are people already interested or involved in anime and manga, both of which are far more popular and still niche in the west. A game like a JVN is unlikely to do better. For VNs to reach a wider audience, things would have to be done differently. Shorter length for one. More assertive females (and in some cases males). Greater story variation. Greater style variation. More western ideals. More gameplay. Generally it comes down to sitting down and figuring out who you want your audience to be. The GREATEST market in coming years will be the casual market, all those people looking for things to do on the train with their shiny ipads and iphones. They will not be the same audience as the audience who already like VNs. It will require thought and a greater analysis of wider entertainment material, but it shows potential in my opinion.

[jack_norton]

In my opinion VN will never be a mass market. But heavily story-based games yes, like Heavy Rain which I just finished playing on PS3 (awesome, despite a few really boring starting scenes). Most people don't like to read, but if you give them an experience which seems like a movie with voices, animations, they'll love it (indeed HR was top10 games for PS3 in 2011).

[DaFool]

Even Final Fantasy at its best is a glorified menu selection game following the tried and true "Press X to win" formula. But people just want special effects animations and lots of button-mashing opportunities. Conventional JVNs are just too static to engage that audience. The structure of Heavy Rain and Dear Esther can be implemented with a pure VN engine... it's just that without the 3D animation a lot of the immersion is lost.

After I get some projects out of the way in the core animu fandom (mainly to prove that we can match what comes out from Japan), I'll very likely switch to making menu-driven puzzle story games (call them sims or light RPGs) with western-acceptable art. I'm sure those will be easy to submit and be accepted at the Windows 8 app stores of the future. H projects will remain animu though, for the main reason that it's the only subculture where cartoon porn isn't stamped out or doused by a fire extinguisher as soon as it appears. Given the more limited market, that's where I can experiment the most as well.

The dichotomy of the reader market and the gamer market actually simplifies a lot of the decision making process with regards to games, just like the dichotomy between hentai and non-hentai works. As a creator, I wouldn't want to half-ass a game targeted towards the gameplay market just like I wouldn't want to half-ass hentai. Like, if a work remains the same without the H, its bad just like if a game remains the same without the gameplay -- the H and/or the gameplay must be an integral part of the work. Otherwise, cut them out even if I end up with a simple kinetic novel.

[Percon]

In my opinion VN will never be a mass market. But heavily story-based games yes, like Heavy Rain which I just finished playing on PS3 (awesome, despite a few really boring starting scenes). Most people don't like to read, but if you give them an experience which seems like a movie with voices, animations, they'll love it (indeed HR was top10 games for PS3 in 2011).

Personally, I don't think reading is the problem; "most people don't like to read" is a pretty sweeping generalization. Of course, the flashier something is, the more enticing it will seem to a greater amount of people, but that doesn't mean an experience that is mostly reading is unmarketable.

Then again, I do think that VNs should be marketed as games more so than books (I suppose now is the part where I shamelessly recommend you check out my blog post on the westernization of VNs if you haven't already). I know I can't speak for everyone, but when it comes to games and books, I am more willing to spend time with quirky indie games while I usually only read books by well-respected authors. I think this is because books are seen as a bigger investment of time.

I consider myself an average western gamer with a standard taste in games. Generally, it's the genre that turns me off in regards to VNs. Hentai and dating sims don't really interest me, not to mention they're both experiences that I wouldn't feel comfortable sharing with other gamers, so I wouldn't play either. I almost downloaded KS but then realized that is was only the bandwagon effect that made me want to play it and that I really wasn't that excited for it. I've got to give props to the KS team, though, for completing a behemoth of a project and getting a lot of attention. I'm not sure what the lasting impact of the game will be, but in the indie game circles I frequent reception is usually mixed, with a few cases of very violent backlash amidst glowing praise.

I've only ever played one "pure" VN (Ever17) but... I dunno, I didn't really like it as much as I was expecting. I had played it after it had been suggested to me upon completing 999, but I think it was too, um... Visual Novel-y. I'm not gonna go into too much detail but it was a bit long and campy for my tastes. Like Auro-Cynaide said, I think there are a few Japanese tropes that need to be weeded out of VNs in their current state so that they're more easily consumed by the western market.

I also think that VN developers need to watch how they price their games. With so many fun, free, and legal ways to spend your time nowadays, you really need to make your game stellar if you're charging for it, IMO. It just makes the barrier for entry so much higher.

OFF-TOPIC QUESTION: Could a more VN-savvy person help me out here? In VNs, is it more common for the audience to play through the game once and finish only one route (bad ends aside), or is it standard practice for people to play every route?

[papillon]

I am more willing to spend time with quirky indie games while I usually only read books by well-respected authors. I think this is because books are seen as a bigger investment of time.

... really? even most quickie games last longer than the average book.

Some people don't read as fast as I do though!

In VNs, is it more common for the audience to play through the game once and finish only one route (bad ends aside), or is it standard practice for people to play every route?

This really varies. There are some players who swear by playing a game only once, WHATEVER route they got. There are some people who are in it for one character only and will finish that character's route and then stop. There are players who are obsessive completionists.

I get the impression that most people who consider themselves dedicated fans will want to have a go at every route, if not necessarily every bad end, and will definitely try to unlock a true route if they know it exists. But not all players fall into the "dedicated fans" group, and even among them, as I said, there are some people who insist that the experience they get when playing the game through once making the choices THEY would make is what the game should be judged by.

[jack_norton]

When I say that most people don't like to read I refer to the generic gamer, AKA the "casual gamer". Now of course you can say that VNs aren't aimed at casual games. And exactly for that, are a niche. Catch-22

And it's not my opinion: the games that had too many texts completely failed in the top casual portals.

Now, to make a parallel with other forms of literature you can tell the same story either as a sort of illustrated book/book (VNs) as a comic (adventure games) or as a tv series (Heavy Rain and the new generation of interactive storytelling games). The difference is that the first is the cheapest way, but also the less remunerative, while the latter is the most expensive but also the one that potentially can reach a wider audience.

[Percon]

... really? even most quickie games last longer than the average book.

Some people don't read as fast as I do though!

It's just the way in which the the mediums are consumed.

I can play a flash game/commercial game demo for five minutes, get hooked on a cool mechanic, have fun with it, and recommend it to friends. I may grow bored and stop playing when I am no longer having fun, but I can still consider the game to be good. I find games easy to sample in short burst.

If I start reading a book, chances are I'll still be on the opening chapter after 5 minutes. I won't have a really good idea of how good the plot is until a few chapters in (unless it is glaringly bad). If I stop reading a book, it is not because I am no longer having fun with it, but because I was never having fun with it. The only books I never finish are the ones I don't like.

That's just me, though.

When I say that most people don't like to read I refer to the generic gamer, AKA the "casual gamer".

Oh. Whoops! >_>